Critique Sunset on the Alpe di Siusi

SFTPhotography

SFTPhotography

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Not processed my winter landscapes from Glencoe over the last two days so this will have to do. Don't know why I didn't share them anyway. This has been one of the highlights of the year for me just watching an evening go by. I had a good walk from Compaccio up to Alder lodge looking for compositions and taking in that view. The most popular shot is taken on the path just before Alder and whilst it's a cracker I really liked this angle I found walking on the way up. After a hearty lunch I walked back and set up and fired off some frames. Crop wise, and this goes to show the D810 has better eyesight than me, I had to take some off the left hand side as I noticed an ugly ski centre on the mountain side. Not really noticable to the eye at the time but at a full res preview on a big screen, unmissable.

_DSC1699 (1) by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr

_DSC1705_Renditon 2 by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr

_DSC1713 by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr

I loved this place.
 
Lovely shots Steve, the foreground has some lovely colour but the background looks washed out to me, I know what its like here with the Sun haze which i`m sure thats what this is thats causing this washed out look.
Lovely comp.
1st shot is the best imo.
 
Graham said:
Lovely shots Steve, the foreground has some lovely colour but the background looks washed out to me, I know what its like here with the Sun haze which i`m sure thats what this is thats causing this washed out look.
Lovely comp.
1st shot is the best imo.
Click to expand...

There was a fair amount of haze around for sure. For me, I don't mind it. It's what summer is all about.
 
Steve, I know this is your style but seeing as you have tagged this with critique...

I have to say these look to me like they are flat RAW files. I know they aren't, but they look muddy and lack contrast for me. Too much of the image is in mid-tone which means the eye isn't drawn to anything, the yellow is very strong on the foreground too, I feel like that could be tamed as well. That final one in particular looks like it has some pinks coming through, I can't help but think it could be a stunner with some better processing.
 
Craigus said:
Steve, I know this is your style but seeing as you have tagged this with critique...

I have to say these look to me like they are flat RAW files. I know they aren't, but they look muddy and lack contrast for me. Too much of the image is in mid-tone which means the eye isn't drawn to anything, the yellow is very strong on the foreground too, I feel like that could be tamed as well. That final one in particular looks like it has some pinks coming through, I can't help but think it could be a stunner with some better processing.
Click to expand...

Just out of interest do you have a calibrated screen?

Mine is and they, to my eye, look ok. The last one has quite a strong pink colour on the mountains. You're right though, a lot is in the mid tone as there is no blown sky sections or completely blocked shadow areas in the orignal raw. The light just lit the whole place up as the sun dipped behind me and the haze diffused the light a little too. The shadows were not strong at all.

What I've noticed though is on a crap uncalibrated screen they look poor and the full res ones they look better, bigger where the less obvious colours and subtly come to life.
 
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SFTPhotography said:
Just out of interest do you have a calibrated screen?

Mine is and they, to my eye, look ok. The last one has quite a strong pink colour on the mountains. You're right though, a lot is in the mid tone as there is no blown sky sections or completely blocked shadow areas in the orignal raw. The light just lit the whole place up as the sun dipped behind me and the haze diffused the light a little too. The shadows were not strong at all.

What I've noticed though is on a crap uncalibrated screen they look poor and the full res ones they look better, bigger where the less obvious colours and subtly come to life.
Click to expand...

It is calibrated, yes.

That's fair that the light was as you say, I suppose it depends how seriously one chooses to represent exactly what their eye perceived at the time of the photo and how much they want to push those boundaries to create something that looks more interesting and striking. I'm not talking the usual over-saturated hdr stuff either, I'm just as repelled by that as I'm sure you are, but all the best landscapers I have seen 'bend the truth' to a certain extent to make their images compelling.

Have you printed any of them at all? I'd be interested to see how they look.
 
Craigus said:
It is calibrated, yes.

That's fair that the light was as you say, I suppose it depends how seriously one chooses to represent exactly what their eye perceived at the time of the photo and how much they want to push those boundaries to create something that looks more interesting and striking. I'm not talking the usual over-saturated hdr stuff either, I'm just as repelled by that as I'm sure you are, but all the best landscapers I have seen 'bend the truth' to a certain extent to make their images compelling.

Have you printed any of them at all? I'd be interested to see how they look.
Click to expand...

Not these - but just sold a print to someone I know well and this thread came up and it looks exactly like it does on my screen when I went round to her place. She commented just how close it looked and then we discussed this thread LOL

You'd be surprised just how much PP these have had ;)

I like to retain the feeling and mood of the day - for me these do but can see why you might want more.

With regards to the muddy comment, I see it slightly in two - it was processd originally with a cooler wb but felt the shadow areas were too magenta in cast so it was warmed up slightly
 
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I see plenty of contrast in these, I also see how they could be considered washed out too. I think it is the haze that is causing this, but the foreground colours are saturated (almost too saturated) and the saturation fades the further into the image which would happen with haze and to a lesser extent normally anyway imo/e. For me they are a smidge bright, but accept that a) Steve likes bright images and b) it may well have been bright! :)

I think that as there is also little colour in the sky that adds to the washed out feel perhaps ...
 
PaulButler said:
I see plenty of contrast in these, I also see how they could be considered washed out too. I think it is the haze that is causing this, but the foreground colours are saturated (almost too saturated) and the saturation fades the further into the image which would happen with haze and to a lesser extent normally anyway imo/e. For me they are a smidge bright, but accept that a) Steve likes bright images and b) it may well have been bright! :)

I think that as there is also little colour in the sky that adds to the washed out feel perhaps ...
Click to expand...
Almost too much colour ;) - the full res you can see the haze in the shadows, its quite odd and the images from the day before have it too. I quite like it, its softens the distant scene nicely.
 
SFTPhotography said:
Almost too much colour ;) - the full res you can see the haze in the shadows, its quite odd and the images from the day before have it too. I quite like it, its softens the distant scene nicely.
Click to expand...
Certainly looked challenging light to some degree. Did you de-sat the sky at all? just curious really, the sky is not really the focal point in these :)
 
Interesting reading about cropping out the ski centre, purely because my initial reaction was a little bit more breathing space to the left hand side of the hut bottom left in the way it's facing could be considered. The framing of the mountains is actually nicely balanced though so it's not a big issue.

Also interesting reading the comments regarding processing choices. I hope you don't mind but I pulled the second shot (which I love the bank of cloud across the top btw) into PS and had a look at it. I wasn't there but I really don't think the colour balance is far off at all, it has a real summer time feel that I would expect from a scene like this. The trees that are catching the light read red, the trees in shade read blue. The parts of cloud that are in shade, but would be picking up reflected light anyway are so very close to being neutral.

The photo definitely has a pastel feel to it, I'm sure that is the nature of the light, the dynamic range of the camera far exceeding that of the scene and the haze. I think where scenes like this struggle is really down to green/yellow saturation, particularly in the foreground. It is a colour that is hard to get right with cameras and screens IMO. As an aside I think these shots would print really nice on gloss as opposed to lustre finish, that would add a glassiness to them and help them pop.

Personally, there would be some tweaks to the processing if it was mine (I wish it was). That is a very personal choice though, just like some people would add a vignette, others would black and white it, and some would push the saturation so far you'd need welding goggles to look at it. At the end of the day, the processing of a photo is just another tool of the photographer's in trying to convey the mood they want to convey. I imagine long summers evenings after a really hot day hiking, wondering if any of those log cabins house a bar with cold beer!
 
Craig_85 said:
Interesting reading about cropping out the ski centre, purely because my initial reaction was a little bit more breathing space to the left hand side of the hut bottom left in the way it's facing could be considered. The framing of the mountains is actually nicely balanced though so it's not a big issue.

Also interesting reading the comments regarding processing choices. I hope you don't mind but I pulled the second shot (which I love the bank of cloud across the top btw) into PS and had a look at it. I wasn't there but I really don't think the colour balance is far off at all, it has a real summer time feel that I would expect from a scene like this. The trees that are catching the light read red, the trees in shade read blue. The parts of cloud that are in shade, but would be picking up reflected light anyway are so very close to being neutral.

The photo definitely has a pastel feel to it, I'm sure that is the nature of the light, the dynamic range of the camera far exceeding that of the scene and the haze. I think where scenes like this struggle is really down to green/yellow saturation, particularly in the foreground. It is a colour that is hard to get right with cameras and screens IMO. As an aside I think these shots would print really nice on gloss as opposed to lustre finish, that would add a glassiness to them and help them pop.

Personally, there would be some tweaks to the processing if it was mine (I wish it was). That is a very personal choice though, just like some people would add a vignette, others would black and white it, and some would push the saturation so far you'd need welding goggles to look at it. At the end of the day, the processing of a photo is just another tool of the photographer's in trying to convey the mood they want to convey. I imagine long summers evenings after a really hot day hiking, wondering if any of those log cabins house a bar with cold beer!
Click to expand...

There was a nice hiking hut that did cracking cold drinks - I am tee total but ice cold san peligrino out in the sun looking at that view. That's the dream right there. Agree on the comments in the colour balance, I assume you work with a calibrated quality screen and it makes all the difference.

Re the crop, any more to the left and there is an ugly ski centre on the mountainside. Just cropped it out.

Tweaks wise I'd be curious to what you'd do?
 
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SFTPhotography said:
Tweaks wise I'd be curious to what you'd do?
Click to expand...

I stress that these tweaks are not 'correct', just what I would do. The thing with photography as you well know is you are trying to take a 3 dimensional world and display it in a 2 dimensional medium. With the angle of the light you were working with, whilst utterly soft and beautiful, it was fairly even going into the scene. All I have tried to do is create a bit of separation, using colour and contrast between the foreground and mountains, and the mountains and the sky. I like the way the band of cloud frames the top of the image, so with contrast tweaks I have tried to mirror that at the bottom of the image so your eye is led to the mountains quicker. These tweaks are subtle though, and quite possibly pointless. Something that most people would do to this photo is increase clarity and contrast on the mountains to cut through the haze, that was not my goal, or my approach.

Your original;
Screen Shot 2017-12-14 at 11.49.33 by Craig Hollis, on Flickr

Edit;
SFTalpshot by Craig Hollis, on Flickr

Photoshop layers palette;
Screen Shot 2017-12-14 at 12.43.45 by Craig Hollis, on Flickr

I think you are a LR user? Sometimes all the layers in PS can appear very confusing, but they are quite straightforward really. It looks like I have done a lot to achieve a little. Just quickly, something cool about working with layers within folders in PS is it is non destructive, so a lot of these layers have had their opacity changed, to reduce the effect of the initial adjustment. You will notice at the top of the layer palette there is a straight duplicate of the original screen shot. I actually activated this layer after I had finished processing it to my taste, which covered up my adjustments basically, then faded the opacity of it to suit. I ended up with a blend of your original and my adjustments, out of respect to you not liking to over process your shots I used this to reign back in my adjustments, which were probably more contrasty than shown here. Having said that, I think it is a happy medium.
 
Craig_85 said:
I stress that these tweaks are not 'correct', just what I would do. The thing with photography as you well know is you are trying to take a 3 dimensional world and display it in a 2 dimensional medium. With the angle of the light you were working with, whilst utterly soft and beautiful, it was fairly even going into the scene. All I have tried to do is create a bit of separation, using colour and contrast between the foreground and mountains, and the mountains and the sky. I like the way the band of cloud frames the top of the image, so with contrast tweaks I have tried to mirror that at the bottom of the image so your eye is led to the mountains quicker. These tweaks are subtle though, and quite possibly pointless. Something that most people would do to this photo is increase clarity and contrast on the mountains to cut through the haze, that was not my goal, or my approach.

Your original;
Screen Shot 2017-12-14 at 11.49.33 by Craig Hollis, on Flickr

Edit;
SFTalpshot by Craig Hollis, on Flickr

Photoshop layers palette;
Screen Shot 2017-12-14 at 12.43.45 by Craig Hollis, on Flickr

I think you are a LR user? Sometimes all the layers in PS can appear very confusing, but they are quite straightforward really. It looks like I have done a lot to achieve a little. Just quickly, something cool about working with layers within folders in PS is it is non destructive, so a lot of these layers have had their opacity changed, to reduce the effect of the initial adjustment. You will notice at the top of the layer palette there is a straight duplicate of the original screen shot. I actually activated this layer after I had finished processing it to my taste, which covered up my adjustments basically, then faded the opacity of it to suit. I ended up with a blend of your original and my adjustments, out of respect to you not liking to over process your shots I used this to reign back in my adjustments, which were probably more contrasty than shown here. Having said that, I think it is a happy medium.
Click to expand...

It's a nice effective edit actually.I like what you did with the foreground but not so much with the mountain. I don't use LR - Aperture 3. I never really got on with the DAM and layout of LR. I rarely use PS. Probably going to go for Capture one and manage my files myself.
 
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