Beginner Surprising my girlfriend with a lens

Cagey75 said:
We have to remember here lads, the OP is not a photographer, and barring ruining the surprise by throwing all this info at her and asking her preference, it's best to keep it very simple. The person he's buying for is also a beginner - so something like a 50mm 1.8 is ideal IMO. I suggested this, and if he is willing to use up the whole budget a new camera is a good idea to go with - I know when I started out a new camera meant more to me than the lenses I used, that comes with time and more experience. If this works out, and I think the initial surprise would be more effective, then she can sell on the 3400 and buy another lens.
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We also have to remember that she wants a new lens. Although I agree with your lens suggestion, Why is a new camera a good idea? If it's just to impress her, then a car would be better :LOL:
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
We also have to remember that she wants a new lens. Although I agree with your lens suggestion, Why is a new camera a good idea? If it's just to impress her, then a car would be better :LOL:
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For teh Kudos! :D As I said, as a beginner, I preferred a new camera over a new lens, especially when I was starting to learn more, - I wanted the extra control, better ergos etc. she may well be different but only the OP can suss that one out. It's just an idea, tbh she'll probably be delighted enough with a new lens - and the 50 1.8 is hard to beat for the money
 
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AZ6 said:
Having had a very similar camera (the slightly older D3300), two lenses I would personally avoid, due to disappointing experiences with both, would be the 35mm f1.8 DX version, and the 50mm f1.4G. I had two of the 35mm lens, and one was terrible, the other was just poor. Pictures weren't sharp enough for my liking. The same with the 50mm f1.4G; it isn't very sharp with the aperture fully open, and not really acceptable (to me) until you stop down to f4 or so. Which makes spending all the extra money a complete waste of time really. The 50mm f1.8G version is, by all accounts, and better lens. And a lot cheaper.

For your budget, the Nikon 60mm f2.8 Micro might be a really nice surprise for your partner. It is a 'macro' type lens, meaning it can focus much closer than most other lenses, and you can achieve a 1:1 or 'life size' reproduction with it. Great for flowers/plants, insects, small details etc. Opens up a whole new word of viewing things. Plus, it's also great for portraits; it's not a 'portrait' lens, but it's very sharp, and the f2.8 aperture is sufficient to blur the background enough to make a subject 'stand out', particularly on full face shots.

Whilst others are suggesting 'faster' portrait lenses, such as the 50 and 85mm lenses, for someone learning, lenses with such large apertures, whilst desirable, are trickier to use. The large aperture means you have very little depth of field, and a smaller aperture such as f2.8 will actually be preferable, to get more DoF and sharpness; with say f1.4 or 1.8, if the subject isn't exactly square on to the camera, one eye can be in sharp focus, but the other, not. Plus noses and ears can be out of focus. So the 60mm Micro lens might actually be easier to use, and get consistently better results. It's definitely a more 'fun' lens, in my opinion.

Beyond that; a longer 'telephoto' zoom would be nice; you can still take excellent portraits with it, and the extra 'reach' makes getting 'closer' to the subject easier.
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My sister got both the 35 f/1,8 and 50 f/1,8 (I think both dx) with her d7500 and she is very excited with them.
 
snerkler said:
I think based on discussions from other threads your 50mm f1.4 was likely a duff copy tbh.
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Without doing this all over again, it wasn't. Let's move on from that please.


Cagey75 said:
We have to remember here lads, the OP is not a photographer, and barring ruining the surprise by throwing all this info at her and asking her preference, it's best to keep it very simple. The person he's buying for is also a beginner - so something like a 50mm 1.8 is ideal IMO. I suggested this, and if he is willing to use up the whole budget a new camera is a good idea to go with - I know when I started out a new camera meant more to me than the lenses I used, that comes with time and more experience. If this works out, and I think the initial surprise would be more effective, then she can sell on the 3400 and buy another lens.
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I agree with this too. The 50mm f1.8G is one of the lowest priced Nikon lenses you can buy, but excellent value for money. Would leave a lot left over in the budget, for perhaps a telephoto zoom as well.

This would be an excellent bargain:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1365789-REG/nikon_20062b_af_p_dx_nikkor_70_300mm.html
 
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Wow, great input from everyone! Or at least, I'm guessing it's great :)

Lots of advice for sure. Thanks so much for the help and input, although a lot of it went over my head completely haha.

It seems to me like a 50mm lens is the most common suggestion here, so I'm leaning towards that. I'll have to see if I can do some sneaky investigation to find out what sort of stuff she wants in particular (in case she has a lens in mind already) without giving away that this is what I'm doing. I still have a month or so, so plenty of time to figure it out - glad I asked now though, so I could start doing the research early

I'm realizing now that I'll probably need to get a lens bag (case? Pouch? Not sure the proper terminology), since her camera bag is pretty small and really just holds the camera.

I am tempted by the idea of just getting her a new camera, and she has mentioned wanting to get another camera, though much less frequently than she has mentioned a lens, so at this time I'm leaning towards a lens.

Thanks again for the help everyone; I'm gonna start looking into prices and availability of some of the lenses that have been suggested, and start trying to find out more details from her while keeping this a surprise :)
 
A 50mm f/1.8 will leave you plenty of change from your budget so maybe print out a voucher offering her the bag of her choice to hold her expanding kit... (The 50mm would have been my suggestion too - extremely good value for money.)
 
dating_a_photographer said:
Wow, great input from everyone! Or at least, I'm guessing it's great :)

Lots of advice for sure. Thanks so much for the help and input, although a lot of it went over my head completely haha.

It seems to me like a 50mm lens is the most common suggestion here, so I'm leaning towards that. I'll have to see if I can do some sneaky investigation to find out what sort of stuff she wants in particular (in case she has a lens in mind already) without giving away that this is what I'm doing. I still have a month or so, so plenty of time to figure it out - glad I asked now though, so I could start doing the research early

I'm realizing now that I'll probably need to get a lens bag (case? Pouch? Not sure the proper terminology), since her camera bag is pretty small and really just holds the camera.

I am tempted by the idea of just getting her a new camera, and she has mentioned wanting to get another camera, though much less frequently than she has mentioned a lens, so at this time I'm leaning towards a lens.

Thanks again for the help everyone; I'm gonna start looking into prices and availability of some of the lenses that have been suggested, and start trying to find out more details from her while keeping this a surprise :)
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A new camera eh, well I’m sure we can all help you spend your money on that too ;)
 
A nice camera bag can be expensive for a beginner, if they want really nice quality so I think that is also a great idea :) Make up a complete package for her, maybe a decent camera strap, and if she doesn't have one already a flash and a diffuser to go with. All well inside your budget even after buying the 50mm [if you don't go with a new camera that is] - thinking on it the package is a nicer idea I feel
 
Nod said:
A 50mm f/1.8 will leave you plenty of change from your budget so maybe print out a voucher offering her the bag of her choice to hold her expanding kit... (The 50mm would have been my suggestion too - extremely good value for money.)
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oh good idea to do a voucher or something like that for the bag.
Cagey75 said:
A nice camera bag can be expensive for a beginner, if they want really nice quality so I think that is also a great idea :) Make up a complete package for her, maybe a decent camera strap, and if she doesn't have one already a flash and a diffuser to go with. All well inside your budget even after buying the 50mm [if you don't go with a new camera that is] - thinking on it the package is a nicer idea I feel
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A package is a good thought! She just has the camera strap that came with the camera originally, so it's fine but nothing fancy. Only unfortunate thing is, due to the pandemic and quarantine, etc. - we actually won't be together for any of this. We're long-distance normally and unless stuff changes pretty dramatically, I'm guessing that I'm just going to have to ship the stuff to her with a card. Still... doing multiple gifts in combination might be a good way to go!
 
Are there good photography books that I could get for her, that she could use to help upgrade her skills to the next level, explaining all the details of the manual settings? I'm thinking that could be a nice inclusion in a package of multiple camera-related things. She has been learning about shooting with manual settings and has been experimenting there, but mostly based on blogs and stuff. I'm not sure if a book would have anything useful that she can't get just as easily online... I defer to your inputs!
 
dating_a_photographer said:
Are there good photography books that I could get for her, that she could use to help upgrade her skills to the next level, explaining all the details of the manual settings? I'm thinking that could be a nice inclusion in a package of multiple camera-related things. She has been learning about shooting with manual settings and has been experimenting there, but mostly based on blogs and stuff. I'm not sure if a book would have anything useful that she can't get just as easily online... I defer to your inputs!
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Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson is a great book for things like that imo. Plenty of info but written in a way that’s easy to follow.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Understand...ryan+peterson+paperback&qid=1587659784&sr=8-1
 
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snerkler said:
Is that fact or just preference? As you know 50mm has a 75mm fov which I don’t think is too short personally.
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There are no ‘facts’ other than the physics of it.

so it’s my opinion. I’m a people shooter, I shoot very little else. And in the 12 or so years I shot Canon crop, I shot less than 100 frames with the 50mm 1.8. Though me and the Mrs used to fight over the 85mm, to the point where I almost bought a second one.

I do like 85mm on FF but it’s just that bit longer.

YMMV
 
dating_a_photographer said:
Are there good photography books that I could get for her, that she could use to help upgrade her skills to the next level, explaining all the details of the manual settings? I'm thinking that could be a nice inclusion in a package of multiple camera-related things. She has been learning about shooting with manual settings and has been experimenting there, but mostly based on blogs and stuff. I'm not sure if a book would have anything useful that she can't get just as easily online... I defer to your inputs!
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to become a decent photographer, reading a book about settings is pointless. If you truly want to help her be a better people photographer try a book by a great portrait photographer. I’d strongly recommend’Exposure’ by Jane Bown and the accompanying video Looking for the Light.
 
Please be aware size does matter ;)
 
snerkler said:
Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson is a great book for things like that imo. Plenty of info but written in a way that’s easy to follow.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Understand...ryan+peterson+paperback&qid=1587659784&sr=8-1
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Phil V said:
That’s something else we strongly disagree about then :)

Sorry but that book is a pile of crap written for a different world to the one we inhabit.
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Phil V said:
to become a decent photographer, reading a book about settings is pointless. If you truly want to help her be a better people photographer try a book by a great portrait photographer. I’d strongly recommend’Exposure’ by Jane Bown and the accompanying video Looking for the Light.
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interesting, thanks for both those opinions. I'll take a look at both those books and see which one I think she would enjoy more!

F1.2 said:
Please be aware size does matter ;)
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noted ;)
 
Phil V said:
That’s something else we strongly disagree about then :)

Sorry but that book is a pile of crap written for a different world to the one we inhabit.
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Completely disagree, to take the next step from shooting in auto and being a point and shoot shooter this book is great imo. It helps you understand the fundamentals of exposure, composition, light, metering etc all which are very important to a variety of different types of photography. The OP said they wanted a book to take their partner to the next level and specifically mentioned manual settings. The OP did not ask for a book specifically on portraiture which leads me into .....
Phil V said:
to become a decent photographer, reading a book about settings is pointless. If you truly want to help her be a better people photographer try a book by a great portrait photographer. I’d strongly recommend’Exposure’ by Jane Bown and the accompanying video Looking for the Light.
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.... this. Whilst this looks a very good book and one I fancy reading myself this is very genre specific from what I can tell, and doesn’t necessary focus on an overall grasp of photography basics. Obviously you’ve read it and correct me if I’m wrong.

But whilst learning how to shoot people as in this book is important I think that you say it’s pointless to learn about settings is also wrong. I’m sure you understand settings very well, and I would be very surprised if you were as successful as you are without learning these. Shooting on auto and hoping for the best gets you so far. What if you were a wedding shooter and in low light churches all your photo came out blurry, wouldn’t you want to know why?
 
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dating_a_photographer said:
interesting, thanks for both those opinions. I'll take a look at both those books and see which one I think she would enjoy more!


noted ;)
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If you want an easy to read book that teaches you the basics of photography in order to help you move away from shooting in auto, understanding what aperture, shutter speed, and ISO do and how they influence the photograph, the basics of composition, metering, light etc etc all of which are fundamental to photography imo then get the book I suggested.

If you want a book that focussed on a specific genre of portraiture then get the book Phil suggests. Or maybe even get both, the book I read doesn’t break the bank costing £13.99.

When I started out in photography it was THE book I was recommended by many members in here and AVF and it transformed me from a point and shoot photographer not having a clue to someone who actually knew what they are doing and understands why they get the pictures they are. Am I a great photographer? No. Has my photography moved on to the next level and allowed to take pictures I once only ever dreamed of taking? I believe so yes.
 
snerkler said:
If you want an easy to read book that teaches you the basics of photography in order to help you move away from shooting in auto, understanding what aperture, shutter speed, and ISO do and how they influence the photograph, the basics of composition, metering, light etc etc all of which are fundamental to photography imo then get the book I suggested.

If you want a book that focussed on a specific genre of portraiture then get the book Phil suggests. Or maybe even get both, the book I read doesn’t break the bank costing £13.99.

When I started out in photography it was THE book I was recommended by many members in here and AVF and it transformed me from a point and shoot photographer not having a clue to someone who actually knew what they are doing and understands why they get the pictures they are. Am I a great photographer? No. Has my photography moved on to the next level and allowed to take pictures I once only ever dreamed of taking? I believe so yes.
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I did take a look at your website and peruse some of your galleries - I really like them, especially some of the landscapes. I think I'll definitely get the one you suggested (like you said, it's quite affordable), but I might get the portrait one as well
 
dating_a_photographer said:
I did take a look at your website and peruse some of your galleries - I really like them, especially some of the landscapes. I think I'll definitely get the one you suggested (like you said, it's quite affordable), but I might get the portrait one as well
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Thanks very much (y)
 
snerkler said:
Completely disagree, to take the next step from shooting in auto and being a point and shoot shooter this book is great imo. It helps you understand the fundamentals of exposure, composition, light, metering etc all which are very important to a variety of different types of photography. The OP said they wanted a book to take their partner to the next level and specifically mentioned manual settings. The OP did not ask for a book specifically on portraiture which leads me into .....

.... this. Whilst this looks a very good book and one I fancy reading myself this is very genre specific from what I can tell, and doesn’t necessary focus on an overall grasp of photography basics. Obviously you’ve read it and correct me if I’m wrong.

But whilst learning how to shoot people as in this book is important I think that you say it’s pointless to learn about settings is also wrong. I’m sure you understand settings very well, and I would be very surprised if you were as successful as you are without learning these. Shooting on auto and hoping for the best gets you so far. What if you were a wedding shooter and in low light churches all your photo came out blurry, wouldn’t you want to know why?
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Why would it focus on photography basics?

My opinion is that in the Internet age it’s easy to go from 0 to understanding exposure in less time than it takes to read the first 2 chapters of that flipping horrible old fashioned book.

And sadly there are far too many camera owners spending far too long struggling to make the basics more complicated than they need to be. The next step being they get obsessed with lens sharpness whilst taking terrible photos of ducks in Manual.

The OP wants to buy his girlfriend a portrait lens and a ‘useful’ book.
So IMHO a useful book one that’ll inspire her to take great portraits. Not one that’ll get her obsessing about camera modes instead of making pictures. :)
 
Phil V said:
Why would it focus on photography basics?

My opinion is that in the Internet age it’s easy to go from 0 to understanding exposure in less time than it takes to read the first 2 chapters of that flipping horrible old fashioned book.

And sadly there are far too many camera owners spending far too long struggling to make the basics more complicated than they need to be. The next step being they get obsessed with lens sharpness whilst taking terrible photos of ducks in Manual.

The OP wants to buy his girlfriend a portrait lens and a ‘useful’ book.
So IMHO a useful book one that’ll inspire her to take great portraits. Not one that’ll get her obsessing about camera modes instead of making pictures. :)
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Ok we have differing opinions on the book, that’s fine, but I replied to what the OP specifically asked for. If he asked for an inspirational book on portraiture I would have answered differently.

You‘re right, you can learn it all online but that’d make a great birthday present, “here you are honey, here’s some web links“ ;) :p

I don’t get this assumption though that people who want to learn the technical stuff don’t take photos or “make pictures”. Learning the technical stuff helps you to achieve said pictures. I’m pretty sure Jane Brown and every other top photographer will have learnt the technical stuff alongside the ‘art’ of it (y)
 
I don't mind the idea of a photography book for a beginner, but when I started [to go beyond using fully auto compacts] I learned tonnes from just watching youtube videos. For the exposure triangle and general lighting I turned to Zack Arias, he can be very beginner friendly in how he explains things
 
Cagey75 said:
I don't mind the idea of a photography book for a beginner, but when I started [to go beyond using fully auto compacts] I learned tonnes from just watching youtube videos. For the exposure triangle and general lighting I turned to Zack Arias, he can be very beginner friendly in how he explains things
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What would we do without t’interweb eh? There’s so many sources out there (y) I personally prefer reading as I find online tutorials can be quite slow, you can go at your own pace with reading. Obviously all down to personal preference.
 
snerkler said:
What would we do without t’interweb eh? There’s so many sources out there (y) I personally prefer reading as I find online tutorials can be quite slow, you can go at your own pace with reading. Obviously all down to personal preference.
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Alongside the YT bingeing I did back then I also accumulated a shed load of magazines [was subbed to a couple] - ok, they're not books, but still a lot of reading over the years and I did many of the projects they suggested, entered loads of competitions, read thousands of articles with tips and tricks etc ... wherever the learning comes from, it's all good :)
 
Cagey75 said:
Alongside the YT bingeing I did back then I also accumulated a shed load of magazines [was subbed to a couple] - ok, they're not books, but still a lot of reading over the years and I did many of the projects they suggested, entered loads of competitions, read thousands of articles with tips and tricks etc ... wherever the learning comes from, it's all good :)
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Yep, and I must admit I love learning. Besides we can’t be out taking photos 24 hours a day so there’s nothing wrong with learning about it in your ‘down time’ (y)
 
snerkler said:
Yep, and I must admit I love learning. Besides we can’t be out taking photos 24 hours a day so there’s nothing wrong with learning about it in your ‘down time’ (y)
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I definitely spend much more time learning/researching/binge watching etc than I will ever do actively taking pictures. BUT ... when I do head out to 'snap' a few, I'll have that knowledge backing me up ;)
 
snerkler said:
Ok we have differing opinions on the book, that’s fine, but I replied to what the OP specifically asked for. If he asked for an inspirational book on portraiture I would have answered differently.

You‘re right, you can learn it all online but that’d make a great birthday present, “here you are honey, here’s some web links“ ;) :p

I don’t get this assumption though that people who want to learn the technical stuff don’t take photos or “make pictures”. Learning the technical stuff helps you to achieve said pictures. I’m pretty sure Jane Brown and every other top photographer will have learnt the technical stuff alongside the ‘art’ of it (y)
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This is getting seriously off topic; but we don’t know how familiar the OP’s girlfriend is with the exposure triangle - and that godawful book could be 400 pages of stuff she already knows - or 400 pages of what she could find elsewhere better.

whereas the book I proposed is inspirational - it’s a book about great portraits by an inspirational portrait photographer. Whether for a beginner or a genius it has the same value. :)
 
soeren said:
Book for beginners? "The photographers eye" by Michael Freeman
It's about visual design and composition.
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That’s a great book too (y)
 
soeren said:
Book for beginners? "The photographers eye" by Michael Freeman
It's about visual design and composition.
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Ooh, I just read a review on that book and it seems like a good one that she would really enjoy, too... we love traveling, and the review says that Freeman's photos are generally focused on travel photography, so that could be right up her alley... so many options!
 
snerkler said:
Completely disagree, to take the next step from shooting in auto and being a point and shoot shooter this book is great imo. It helps you understand the fundamentals of exposure, composition, light, metering etc all which are very important to a variety of different types of photography. The OP said they wanted a book to take their partner to the next level and specifically mentioned manual settings. The OP did not ask for a book specifically on portraiture which leads me into .....

.... this. Whilst this looks a very good book and one I fancy reading myself this is very genre specific from what I can tell, and doesn’t necessary focus on an overall grasp of photography basics. Obviously you’ve read it and correct me if I’m wrong.

But whilst learning how to shoot people as in this book is important I think that you say it’s pointless to learn about settings is also wrong. I’m sure you understand settings very well, and I would be very surprised if you were as successful as you are without learning these. Shooting on auto and hoping for the best gets you so far. What if you were a wedding shooter and in low light churches all your photo came out blurry, wouldn’t you want to know why?
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I wouldn't touch a technical book with a barge pole to learn about composition and light. Much better to buy a monograph from a photographer you like as @Phil V has already suggested.
 
Ste_S said:
I wouldn't touch a technical book with a barge pole to learn about composition and light. Much better to buy a monograph from a photographer you like as @Phil V has already suggested.
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Yeah maybe I should have been more specific, I meant just the basic principles such as what is front light, back light etc.

Maybe I’ve misunderstood but whilst the OP is wanting a portrait lens it was not my understanding that they wanted a portraiture book but something that helped their partner understand the basics of manual control and general photography to help them understand the basics properly to apply to photography in general, as they are interested in more that just portraiture as mentioned in their original post. When asked for a book they said that wanted a book to help understand things such as manual control which I interpreted as meaning the general basics of photography (y)
 
Phil V said:
And sadly there are far too many camera owners spending far too long struggling to make the basics more complicated than they need to be
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This. It isn't helped by camera manufacturers making their cameras harder to operate than they need to be.

Anyway, my tuppence for a book would be "209 Women" which is a bunch of portraits of female politicians by female photographers. Rather than the view/perspective of 1 person's take on "the portrait", it's lots! Also "Degrees" by Andy Gotts for a single photographer working with natural light and lots of famous poeple. Has some amusing anecdotes.
 
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