Talk to me about the NEX 6

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vrapan

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Been itching for a small camera for some time now. Love my K-5 to bits but it is still too large and heavy to lag around on biking trips and what not. I bought the RX100 which I actually like quite a bit but I cannot get over the fact of the lack of VF.

I am really after a XE-1 but the prices are quite high still and the discouraging reviews regarding RAW support - especially Aperture which I use - have me thinking twice about the move.

So today I dropped by my local Sony Centre and played with a NEX 6 with the 16-50 . The lens is surprisingly compact and the camera feels really good in the hand with a very substantial hand grip. What really surprised me was the quality of the EVF, absolutely fantastic. I might drop by again tomorrow and have a more thorough look but I really found the previous uninspiring and the NEX 7 not quite to my liking but the NEX 6 seems to tick so many boxes!

My worry is with the lenses lineup and their sizes. Other than the 16-50 there is no decently priced high quality lenses like the Fuji X Series. My ideal system with fuji would include the 14mm (once the prices drop to normal levels) the zoom the 35mm. I will still keep my K-5 and the 50-135 because I doubt I will find a combo that good on that range on any system short of FF+70-200 which is really not an option for me.
 
I played with one in a Sony centre too and although I'll need to go back before buying I'm also going to wait and see what Olympus and Panasonic bring out soon.

A few thing I didn't like about the Nex 6.

1. One problem I have with my current Panasonic CSC is that the EVF kicks out too much light and in low light it causes me so much eye strain that I can't use it. In a relatively less well lit area of the Sony centre I placed my hand behind the EVF and sure enough a little square of light appeared. I suspect therefore that just like my G1 the Nex 6 will act like a torch shining directly into my eye in low light.

2. I found the power zoom to be a total piece of poo. I found it impossible to control the zoom to get the framing I wanted. It seemed just like the zoom on a compact - impossible to control with precision.

3. With the power zoom mounted I found that I couldn't hold the camera comfortably by the grip. My fingers hit the lens.

4. The rear screen of the one I tried was completely covered with greasy marks. I hate that. I use my G1 with the screen turned to the body but obviously that's not an option with Sony.

Good things include that there's a 35mm f1.8 now and looking at the lens dimensions there doesn't seem to be a significant size disadvantage when compared to equivalent MFT lenses, indeed the Sony 35mm f1.8 is more compact than the Panny 25mm f1.4. Plus, the Nex 6 has ISO 100 and this seems to be something that MFT is very sadly moving away from.
 
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the 50/1.8 is also supposed to be good & rumours say that an 85/1.8 is imminent.
The Sigma 19mm & 30mm also seem popular & of course there is a huge range of manual lenses that can be used via adapter (not to mention Alpha lenses with full AF but then you are getting away from small again).
 
Much appreciated input Woof woof. I too didn't like the power zoom, I find any power zoom hard to control (I used the Panasonic one on a GX1 and I found that even worse). Then again I don't want it as everything everywhere camera, so I will stick with a few primes until they manage to come out with a half decent standard zoom. So the 35mm and that rumoured 85mm will do me fine.

I didn't find the EVF too bright (though it was not that dark in the SC I visited), can you not adjust the brightness?

What then I am missing is a fairly wide angle lens (not getting the 10-18) in line with the pentax 15mm or the Fuji 14mm. Are there plans for something like that?

I have to admit that the lightness and compactness together with a rather comfortable grip is really so enticing.
 
I haven't been following Nex developments but the news/rumour sites are a pretty good read and report new and upcoming stuff, including lenses. Here's a Sony one...

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/

I'm not too sure about Nex EVF control. There will be some way of turning it down but the question is can it be turned down far enough and still be usable. It's something that I'll need to check. Certainly my G1's can't be turned down enough.

TBH I don't shoot much low light stuff these days but it's something that I used to do and I really don't feel comfortable fully committing to a system with such a basic flaw. Many people don't report any low light EVF issues but some are stating no issues in light that I wouldn't call low at all. It's something that I'm wary of when thinking about EVF equipped kit.

What does interest me is compact size, availability of ISO 100, good image quality including good higher ISO, and good dynamic range.
 
Although the nex6 is the best of the bunch the like of pancake primes is annoying, and sold my nex5. I now i have a nx10 a nx5 with a 20mm and 30mm pancakes on them, all for under 200 quid. They're just not fashionable at go used for peanuts.
 
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woof woof said:
I haven't been following Nex developments but the news/rumour sites are a pretty good read and report new and upcoming stuff, including lenses. Here's a Sony one...

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/

I'm not too sure about Nex EVF control. There will be some way of turning it down but the question is can it be turned down far enough and still be usable. It's something that I'll need to check. Certainly my G1's can't be turned down enough.

TBH I don't shoot much low light stuff these days but it's something that I used to do and I really don't feel comfortable fully committing to a system with such a basic flaw. Many people don't report any low light EVF issues but some are stating no issues in light that I wouldn't call low at all. It's something that I'm wary of when thinking about EVF equipped kit.

What does interest me is compact size, availability of ISO 100, good image quality including good higher ISO, and good dynamic range.
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I've just picked up a NEX 7, and the EVF display can be adjusted for contrast, brightness and sharpness. You do it via the creative scenes, making sure you have the EVF output set for WYSIWIG. You have to shoot raw of course, as what you are seeing in the viewfinder is how the jpeg will be captured. Whether that gives you enough adjustment, only you can decide.

The IQ and dynamic range from the NEX 7 is superb, and I would image the NEX 6 will be the same, and probably marginally better at high ISO.

Cheers,

Simon.
 
Have you looked at the fuji shop refurbs? They recently had the X-E1 as body only for around £480 with discount code PAYPAL12 or as a kit for £770. I don't know how where you buy your cameras from but the UK shops seem to be charging around £730 for the nex 6 with 16-50.

I owned a Nex 7 for a year before switching to the X-E1 and wouldn't move back, in fact I can't see me switching from the X system, as my every day camera, anytime soon. The Nex images, with prime lenses (30mm sigma and 50mm sony) were on a par with the fuji, in good light the focusing was faster bu in poor light it defaulted to area focus and I never knew what it had chosen to focus on. What made me chose the X system was the direct external controls for aperture, exposure comp and shutter speed. I just prefer this type of control system.
 
The very cheap 30mm sigma prime was one of the sharpest lenses ever tested by Lensrental, test here http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/04/nex-7-lens-imatest-resolution-comparison and its a steal for £99.

A 20mm pancake has just come out and there are to be 3 zeiss lenses next year for both fuji and sony systems, a 12mm, a 35mm and 50mm.

The 10-18 is supposed to be a very sharp wideangle lens. Check out www.kurtmunger.com for 100% crops. The NEX sytsem did have a lack of lenses a few years ago and whilst its not as mature as MFT, its really starting to add them in now.
 
Fantastic info guys!

Soulman I was not aware of the kit XE-1 which is still going btw if anyone is interested though they do not have any black ones which is the one I was going to buy.

It is good to know that lenses are coming out but if the 24mm Zeiss is anything to go by it might be too expensive for me to justify (having said that the 14mm Fuji is 700£ so not cheap by any means).
 
srhmoto said:
I've just picked up a NEX 7, and the EVF display can be adjusted for contrast, brightness and sharpness....
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Yes, but in very low light how's the output from the eye side of the EVF?

Here's what my G1 is like, settings turned down... in low light it's unusable :( The Nex 6 I tried did pretty much the same but in the shop it was hard to tell if it was any better.

IMG_9908.jpg
 
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rjbell said:
Although the nex6 is the best of the bunch the like of pancake primes is annoying, and sold my nex5. I now i have a nx10 a nx5 with a 20mm and 30mm pancakes on them, all for under 200 quid. They're just not fashionable at go used for peanuts.
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I was reading up on the NX20 yesterday, APS-C and 1/8000 shutter speed looks good but the fastest lens seems to be f2?
 
woof woof said:
I was reading up on the NX20 yesterday, APS-C and 1/8000 shutter speed looks good but the fastest lens seems to be f2?
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Yeah the fastest prime is f2. They're producing a higher performing premium range this year apparently, with faster primes but probably will not be pancakes if they are going for best IQ. They're fast enough for me for street and they are giving them away on ebay. I bought a nx10 with 18-55 and + 30mm pancake for £167 then sold the kit lens for £75 making the nx10+30mm a £92 camera. I've done similar this weekend buying the nx5 with the 18-55 + 20mm pancake for £157. Again the kit lens will go on ebay next week and hopefully get a similar price for it. 2 Cameras 2 primes for under £200! Its should be a great setup for street, and i don't have to worry about carrying expensive gear around.
 
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The new NX20 does look very interesting and it's a smaller package than my G1.

I read somewhere that there's no magnified view when using legacy lenses but I find that a bit hard to believe...?..?... I'd deffo think about a Samsung, especially if there is an easy way of calling up a magnified view when manually focusing a legacy lens. With my G1 it's a two button press which is easy enough.

What I'd really like is something that Ill be able to carry on using legacy lenses on plus and a couple of fastish AF primes and zooms. I'd ideally like to replace my Canon DSLR+lenses.

It's frustrating because these smaller systems are soooo close and really just hobbled for me by my own low light shooting issues with the EVF, most being limited to 1/4000 sec shuter speed (this means you can't shoot wide open in good light without ND's - not an issue with the NX20 as far as I can see) and after that I suppose I can learn to live with no marking FBW lenses - which I'll never love or even like.
 
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woof woof said:
The new NX20 does look very interesting and it's a smaller package than my G1.

I read somewhere that there's no magnified view when using legacy lenses but I find that a bit hard to believe...?..?... I'd deffo think about a Samsung, especially if there is an easy way of calling up a magnified view when manually focusing a legacy lens. With my G1 it's a two button press which is easy enough.

What I'd really like is something that Ill be able to carry on using legacy lenses on plus and a couple of fastish AF primes and zooms. I'd ideally like to replace my Canon DSLR+lenses.

It's frustrating because these smaller systems are soooo close and really just hobbled for me by my own low light shooting issues with the EVF, most being limited to 1/4000 sec shuter speed (this means you can't shoot wide open in good light without ND's - not an issue with the NX20 as far as I can see) and after that I suppose I can learn to live with no marking FBW lenses - which I'll never love or even like.
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No marking in the lenses annoys me. As for legacy lenses and magnification i couldn't tell you sorry.

Samsung are rumoured to be the first company to release a interchangable full frame CSC (ignoring the leica) in the coming months, maybe as early as the end of the month. Would that interest you? Would be great with the legacy lenses.
 
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Yes, it would. Legacy lenses do add to the bulk (with adapter) which is why I'd also like some AF lenses. I spotted a NX lens road map including 35 and 50mm f1.4's for 2012 so hopefully they're in the pipeline and just a bit late.

I spotted a NX20 for sale at the price of... £398, that's shocking :D but without checking out stuff like manual focusing etc even at that price I'll pass. But only just :D

I do have a bit of G.A.S. :D but with so many cameras rumoured to be coming soon it'll be worthwhile waiting a few months.
 
I am not planning on buying any MFT stuff to be honest I am planning on sticking with APS-C as long as I can drop the bulk and weight from the K-5 to something a lot more manageable when MTBing. If I wait a few more months then the XE-2 might be on the horizon so I will have to wait a few more more months for that when Pentax might have something compelling around the corner too and so on and so forth.

I am planning a few biking trips for this year and I'd rather have a camera sorted before then so I can go ahead and sell the bulk of my Pentax lenses (apart from the 50-135) so I don't have to lag an extra couple kilos worth of gear on my back. The XE-1+kit or 14mm is less than my K-5 alone so that ticks the box there and the NEX 6 is even lower than that. Let alone that anything brand spanking new would cost a lot more than I'd like to spend as I am craving after a new Yeti frame as well :p
 
woof woof said:
I was reading up on the NX20 yesterday, APS-C and 1/8000 shutter speed looks good but the fastest lens seems to be f2?
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There's the 85mm f1.4 and the 45mm f1.8

I just wouldn't buy the NX20 at this moment in time (unless you want a free Samsung tablet), the NX30 is almost certainly going to arrive around Summer time and it will be a real upgrade. It should follow the NX300s updates, which include phase detect autofocus, new sensor (Maybe the one being used in the Sony a58?), larger screen, much faster processor and focus peaking.

My Samsung NX100 had magnified liveview when using manual focus lenses, so i'm assuming the NX20 has? I know the NX1000/210/20 have 2 times, 7 times and 14 times mag zoom with autofocus lenses (The NX100 only had 2 times), so it must be usable with manual focus lenses?

I'm also holding off for a few months until I get a mirrorless camera - I sold all my mirrorless gear for a DSLT, but I miss having the smaller camera on my person at all times. Oddly enough when I tried out every mirrorless camera in Jessops 2 months ago, the Pentax Q felt the most user-friendly - only problem would be trying to use legacy lenses on that crop size :cuckoo:
 
Micehorns said:
It should follow the NX300s updates, which include phase detect autofocus, new sensor (Maybe the one being used in the Sony a58?
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If thats true i will be selling the d5100. Has this been on the rumour sites?
 
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rjbell said:
If thats true i will be selling the d5100. Has this been on the rumour sites?
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http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/camera-camcorder/smart-cameras/nx-cameras/EV-NX300ZBATGB-spec

"Total AF Point : 105 points (Phase Detection AF), 247 points (Contrast AF)"

There's the NX300 with all of those features, Samsung always leaves the best stuff for the NX*** and the NX** series, so I can't see them leaving it out of the NX30.

I see the NX1100 images have leaked online, that's a sure sign the NX30 will be round the corner aswell.

The NX300 has been handed out to Asian testers/bloggers/reviewers but, as per usual with Samsung, they won't let western websites test them, meaning we have no idea how the new autofocus/processor is working. I've found a few videos and images on South Korean forums but it's too hard to understand.
 
Vrapan, I use a lowepro photosport 200 for mtb rides, it carries the x-e1 with kit lens and the 35 and 60mm primes. The top section holds tools, snacks and waterproof and ther is a waterproofed section for a 2 litre camelbak badder. It's pricey but a great lightweight bag for cycling and a decent day sack for walking....
 
Soulman said:
Vrapan, I use a lowepro photosport 200 for mtb rides, it carries the x-e1 with kit lens and the 35 and 60mm primes. The top section holds tools, snacks and waterproof and ther is a waterproofed section for a 2 litre camelbak badder. It's pricey but a great lightweight bag for cycling and a decent day sack for walking....
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Good find soulman, been looking for a camera/biking bag forever!
 
woof woof said:
Yes, but in very low light how's the output from the eye side of the EVF?

Here's what my G1 is like, settings turned down... in low light it's unusable :( The Nex 6 I tried did pretty much the same but in the shop it was hard to tell if it was any better.
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I just tried to replicate that with my a99 (same EVF as Nex6?) and failed. Even at its brightest setting I couldn't get it to cast a light onto my hand like that.
 
Johnd2000 said:
I just tried to replicate that with my a99 (same EVF as Nex6?) and failed. Even at its brightest setting I couldn't get it to cast a light onto my hand like that.
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If you've just tried it, and if you're in the UK where it's 14:43 in the afternoon, you wont as the ambient light will be too high.

That shot of mine was taken in my bedroom which is lit by a single energy saving bulb. It's not exactly low light as I can easily read a newspaper in that lighting, my 5D was at f1.4, 1/8 sec and ISO 3200.

In good light the output from the G1's EVF is lost... but in low light the torch effect is clear to see and even when I go into the menu and turn everything down it's still like a torch shining directly into my eye and I can't see how anyone can use these in low light, I can't.

When I tried a Nex 6 in the Sony Centre the light was much higher than in my bedroom but I could still see the EVF output on my hand. I didn't have the time to dive into the menu and I didn't get the chance to try it in really low light but as it was fitted with a kit lens and not a fast prime I was a little surprised by the output.
 
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I just tried too with the nx10 and i'm not getting light leak.
 
How's the ambient light where you are? And at what aperture?

As I said, this is a problem for me in low light, if the ambient light is high the light output from the EVF is swamped and it's not a problem. Also at smaller apertures it's not so much of an issue but in low light and with wide apertures both the G1 and the Nex 6 I tried did the same thing, although as I said, I couldn't really say if the Nex was as bad as the G1, due to the lighting the lens and the camera settings. There's also how our eyes work too... in good light the pupil is relatively small, in low light it's relatively large and light output from the EVF therefore more of an issue.

This is one thing that I'll have to check before investing too much in any EVF system.
 
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woof woof said:
If you've just tried it, and if you're in the UK where it's 14:43 in the afternoon, you wont as the ambient light will be too high.

That shot of mine was taken in my bedroom which is lit by a single energy saving bulb. It's not exactly low light as I can easily read a newspaper in that lighting, my 5D was at f1.4, 1/8 sec and ISO 3200.

In good light the output from the G1's EVF is lost... but in low light the torch effect is clear to see and even when I go into the menu and turn everything down it's still like a torch shining directly into my eye and I can't see how anyone can use these in low light, I can't.

When I tried a Nex 6 in the Sony Centre the light was much higher than in my bedroom but I could still see the EVF output on my hand. I didn't have the time to dive into the menu and I didn't get the chance to try it in really low light but as it was fitted with a kit lens and not a fast prime I was a little surprised by the output.
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I did it in a darkened room, curtains drawn, with the lens poking through the curtains. I even overexposed the view by 2 stops, to get it as bright as I could.
 
Thanks.

Just tried my G1 yet again to see if there's anything that I missed and there isn't. This is a big issue for me so whatever I buy wont be bought until I can try it for myself.

Odd though if it is the same EVF as the Nex 6 as I had no probelm replicating this in the Sony centre.
 
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woof woof said:
Odd though if it is the same EVF as the Nex 6 as I had no probelm replicating this in the Sony centre.
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the A99 at least (& I also believe the NEXs) have on/off settings where the EVF will gain up or not in poor light. The advantage being that with it gaining up you can see things in the EVF (albeit grainily) at light levels when you can't with your eyes alone but by doing so I can see that might affect your night vision in that eye.
Set the other way though if it's a dark scene then the EVF will be dark - of course you then lose the ability to compose at levels below what your unassisted eyes can see.
 
Ulfric M Douglas said:
You need an oblong cut from an nd-filter or pair of shades ... jam it in there.
Not that I've done it, but I would in a jiffy if I ever needed it.
Actually I have some car window tinting plastic lying around, I can send you some.
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Thanks but I've tried a ND and yes, it does cut down on the light and that brings it's own problems so it's not a fix for me.

I seem to be the only person to notice this and be affected but it's the main reason why I can't fully commit to this system. Perhaps some current or future camera will solve this issue for me but at the moment it makes this camera extremely uncomfortable for me to use in low light and prevents me from buying into another system such as Fuji or Nex without giving them a thorough road test first and that's something that to date I haven't had the opportunity to do. So, I've kept my 5D for the few occasions when I want to shoot in low light.
 
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