Technicalities vs Moments

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I hope this thread gets more response than some of the photos I have posted on here. One of the reasons I don't post much on here any more is not because I can't handle the C&C, but because people tear minor little technicalities apart at times which have, IMO, no bearing on the photo being presented. So what if sometimes some whites are clipped? Sometimes it can add to the photo. I have also seen, in the past, comments like "the skin tones are off", when the shot has been done in evening sunlight so the skin tones are yellower and warmer, obvioulsy intentional and IMO, a lot of the time it adds to the feel of the shot. Do we really need to follow every rule of photography and produce shots where the skin tones are accurate to a WB card, or totally ignore the feel of a photo because some of the whites are 'clipped'. Sometimes, in life, things are pure white and bright. I'm not sure it matters. This isn't just a rant, but also looking for others opinions to see if anyone agrees. Keen to hear what other people think. I would love to be more active on the site but things like this really stop me at times.
 
I've said it only today some times with photography it's not just about the technical elements of the photography, it's about the emotional response that a photo evokes :thumbs:

I've photo's that I love when technically there not the perfect photo that we all aim for but I love them and wouldn't be without them

Take this photo

16/365 by mwhcvt, on Flickr

I love this photo to bit's it my wonderful little niece who I very nearly never got to see as she was born while I was seriously ill in intensive care

Now it's a little under exposed, the colours are a little on the pink side and it's very soft, that doesn't stop it being a photo that I love

Matt
MWHCVT
 
My opinion on a photo, is purely that my opinion. Doesn't make it right.

If when posting a photo people said what they were trying to achieve then comments might be a bit different.
 
munch said:
If when posting a photo people said what they were trying to achieve then comments might be a bit different.
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I didn't used to think like this but now I totally agree.
 
gramps said:
Just enjoy your photography, if you get crit take it on the chin and listen or brush it off ... but don't let it get you down.
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I also agree with that but I also agree there is a way to critique someone images. Just saying it's rubbish, which does happen quite a bit with no explanation is just wrong IMO. At least people should say why they feel it is bad and how they would improve it. I, like a lot of people, really want to improve my photos, but some of the crit can be just rude at times and can put folk off posting.
 
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There has to be an element of tact when giving crit!
Sometimes that isn't evident.

If you are happy with the shots you take who cares really what others think.
Sometimes it can be a bitter pill to swallow when someone says they don't like your work and it is a stark contrast to when people love your work.

Don't think about it to much otherwise you will just beat yourself up over it.

Someone once said to me that my images do not reflect the scene as seen by the eye. Initially I took offence and hurt at the comment, but the more I thought about it the more I began to think "who gives a ****".

If you like what you have taken then that is all that counts.
 
MWHCT's photo as far as I am concerned looks great, I don't think it is either too pink or slightly underexposed.

As others have said unless you are selling your photographs, who gives a ****** as long as you like it.

And if you are selling photographs, if the customer wants a white background, then that is what the customer wants. If you think it ****** then tough luck. Unless of course you feel that it is beneath you to provide the what the customer wants "because I am an artist" then good luck to you.

The actual skill here is to demonstrate to the client that something different might be better. But that has nothing to do with photography.
 
munch said:
If when posting a photo people said what they were trying to achieve then comments might be a bit different.
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If >10% of those that replied to a thread actually read the thread they were replying to, then I'd agree with you. Given that >90% of the time replies are the response someone wants to give rather than the response that's asked for, I think that might be a tall ask.

There is also a high percentage of geekery in the audience.. discussion of camaras on the internet attracts a techy crowd who tend to ignore aesthitics as something inpossible to count or categorise - or lump it into easy to remember boxes such as the "rule of thirds". The artistic types are too busy being artistic to spend time on forums. And in any case, they don't care what the techy types think anyway.

Discussion of aesthetics generally doesn't get very far here. Sad to say.
 
Sometimes we also need to remember that we are probably perfectionists. I have so many shots that I would not even dream of showing to the world but friends and family love them. Sure, if we all pixel peep we can see where we slightly missed focus but does anyone else actually care as long as the shot conveys the moment and prompts an emotional reaction?
The greatest shots are ones you look back on and feel good about. Not always because of the technical perfection but because photos are memories, captured in the moment and to be enjoyed.
 
I always choose carefully the photos I put up for critique at camera club competitions. In that environment where the judge is just presented with the image and no back story, he can only go off what is in front of him, and in those circumstances, the photo with meaning to the photographer is likely to get lost amongst the more dramatic or technically proficient.

Here is slightly different as it is possible to present the photo with the story behind it, but just because it means something to you doesn't mean it will have the same impact on someone else, which is why I think people will focus on the more objective elementts.

I agree with what you're saying about technicalities, I once had a judge criticise the fact that the sun was burnt out in one of my images.......
 
I can certainly understand the point of people posting up a picture which is not technically correct because it holds treasured memories, but if I was honest I am struggling to read between the lines of this thread. You seem to be contradicting yourself, the attitude towards giving and receiving C&C is bad enough on here as it is. Looking at this thread of yours you have openly asked people to give C&C, but on each comment you have defended your reasons why the pictures are as they are. Why not be a little more open with regards to the technical side of your shot to begin with? If you know from the outset that there are minor little technicalities then speak up and point it out. Imo it gives the viewers a bit more info to go on and should make for a more healthier discussion. Can you not see that if someone goes to the trouble of replying to that thread and gives their reasons as to why it did not look right, for you then to turn around and say well that is how I wanted it, the only impression it leaves that person thinking, is to why the hell should I bother leaving C&C anymore, bad practise imvho.
 
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u8myufo said:
I can certainly understand the point of people posting up a picture which is not technically correct because it holds treasured memories, but if I was honest I am struggling to read between the lines of this thread. You seem to be contradicting yourself, the attitude towards giving and receiving C&C is bad enough on here as it is. Looking at this thread of yours you have openly asked people to give C&C, but on each comment you have defended your reasons why the pictures are as they are. Why not be a little more open with regards to the technical side of your shot to begin with? If you know from the outset that there are minor little technicalities then speak up and point it out. Imo it gives the viewers a bit more info to go on and should make for a more healthier discussion. Can you not see that if someone goes to the trouble of replying to that thread and gives their reasons as to why it did not look right, for you then to turn around and say well that is how I wanted it, the only impression it leaves that person thinking, is to why the hell should I bother leaving C&C anymore, bad practise imvho.
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See, I find the last part of your comment quite abrupt and a little rude, which is one of the reasons I don't post on here anymore. You mention the thread I put up so I have just been back to read it. I replied twice to comments, the first saying the white balance was off and the second to say the shadow was the point of the photo. I don't see how these are defensive. The white balance was not off, they were purposely made warmer so i have said so. Perhaps you feel I should have put this in the first post to let people know what was going on? This point happens in a few threads I read that are shot in the evening sunlight for example. The light IS warmer, therefore the skin colour will be warmer. I do value the comments of the more experienced photographers and of course I can accept the C&C, but if a comment is off the mark, I am entitled to say surely? The comment about the shadows is totally subjective and that, as I say and will continue to say, is the whole point of that photo. Maybe I don't come across very well on forums with articulating what I mean at times.

I think I just find, a lot of the times, some people view photos, portraits for example and go in with the mindset of 'subject must be on third', 'white balance must be 18% grey', or some other 'rule' and if someone has dared to do something different, they automatically assume they have done it badly or made an error. And it's not just my photos I am talking about. I have books here of photographers who make their livings from photography and teaching photography and some of the photos in their books would get hammered on here if they posted them anonymously.
 
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I think the comment re saying something about why you are posting is good even if only 10% read it at least it helps them.

As a fairly new member in terms of posting and replies to post I would only offer criticism if the posted asked for it or if it was flagged for criticism. I sometimes look at the unanswered posts and try to reply if I think I can add something. Sometimes though I look at the post and wonder what the poster is posting for.

Even then I think there is a way of doing it to inform and educate and I have good feedback that has helped me think about my photography. I have had the occasional comment that gives me no idea of what I did wrong or a couple where I I did not agree but could see where someone else was coming from. The ones that get me down are in the nature of poor shot, you’ll improve with time without saying how or why they thought it a poor shot. Also find it useful to see critiques of others photos to give me pointers for improvement.

I have the feeling there is less responses to post happening at the moment and I would rather responses and comments then no responses because people were afraid to give a different informative opinion. I have not had it you but probably will at some stage is the posts to correct grammar and spelling, nothing wrong with asking for clarification if the meaning of the post cannot be understood but I have not seen many posts that bad but I feel it does not add to the photographic discussion.

I have appreciated the comments I have received, but at time I might of been guilty of not thanking the person for replying.
 
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Gaz, I am sorry, but as both a moderator and a member, I cannot see that Rich's final remarks are in a anyway rude or abrupt, he is making a valid point and doing it sensibly. Now I agree, we all have different lines in the sand as to what we find acceptable, and of course the lack of any voice tone or body language on the internet makes things even more difficult. Let me say this much, when people RTM stuff they think is 'wrong' [general word to cover many occasions] we try and look at it objectively, some will be removed, some will be left alone because the report is perhaps being a little, how shall I say...'over sensitive or misconstrued'


To go back your original point about some photos being about the moment - couldn't agree more! if they are posted in the feedback sections, then one should not be surprised to get feedback, even if you don't agree with it, but as Frac said, explaining the photo from the off can often generate far better responses than just 'look at this, I love it'. I do know [and I have been guilty of this too] that sometimes a post/thread isn't read properly and such points missed. I think an example of that is probably the thread from yesterday that maybe got you thinking about and starting this one, but generally, you will get better feedback by offering better information in the first place.


Finally, as I often to say to friends, clients, etc - keep taking pictures, they are your memories for the future, and whilst you may employ a professional to capture those 'special' moments for their technical and artistic ability, every day photos are important too, technically perfect or just 'happy snaps' - just take them and enjoy them! :thumbs:
 
Yv said:
Gaz, I am sorry, but as both a moderator and a member, I cannot see that Rich's final remarks are in a anyway rude or abrupt, he is making a valid point and doing it sensibly. Now I agree, we all have different lines in the sand as to what we find acceptable, and of course the lack of any voice tone or body language on the internet makes things even more difficult. Let me say this much, when people RTM stuff they think is 'wrong' [general word to cover many occasions] we try and look at it objectively, some will be removed, some will be left alone because the report is perhaps being a little, how shall I say...'over sensitive or misconstrued'


To go back your original point about some photos being about the moment - couldn't agree more! if they are posted in the feedback sections, then one should not be surprised to get feedback, even if you don't agree with it, but as Frac said, explaining the photo from the off can often generate far better responses than just 'look at this, I love it'. I do know [and I have been guilty of this too] that sometimes a post/thread isn't read properly and such points missed. I think an example of that is probably the thread from yesterday that maybe got you thinking about and starting this one, but generally, you will get better feedback by offering better information in the first place.


Finally, as I often to say to friends, clients, etc - keep taking pictures, they are your memories for the future, and whilst you may employ a professional to capture those 'special' moments for their technical and artistic ability, every day photos are important too, technically perfect or just 'happy snaps' - just take them and enjoy them! :thumbs:
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I think your right to be honest. Maybe not rube, but perhaps a little abrupt? Or maybe I just read it wrong which is often the way with forums. It happens many a time and not just with myself so I apologise for that comment. As for C&C, I won't be posting any more photos here I don't think. Not because I don't want or can't take it, but my photos seem to be just merely snapshots. Maybe I don't have the right outlook or attitude for photography. Or maybe I don't have the right attitude for internet forums. They get me down.
 
gazmorton2000 said:
As for C&C, I won't be posting any more photos here I don't think. Not because I don't want or can't take it, but my photos seem to be just merely snapshots. Maybe I don't have the right outlook or attitude for photography. Or maybe I don't have the right attitude for internet forums. They get me down.
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That would be a shame, I think if you follow some of the suggestions made you would benefit and possibly find that you would come up with a different approach to the subject.
Why not keep posting and see if this works?

As for Rich, don't worry, he's always "rube" :lol:
 
gramps said:
That would be a shame, I think if you follow some of the suggestions made you would benefit and possibly find that you would come up with a different approach to the subject.
Why not keep posting and see if this works?

As for Rich, don't worry, he's always "rube" :lol:
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Suggestions such as what? In the thread that was linked do you mean?
 
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gazmorton2000 said:
See, I find the last part of your comment quite abrupt and a little rude, which is one of the reasons I don't post on here anymore. You mention the thread I put up so I have just been back to read it. I replied twice to comments, the first saying the white balance was off and the second to say the shadow was the point of the photo. I don't see how these are defensive. The white balance was not off, they were purposely made warmer so i have said so. Perhaps you feel I should have put this in the first post to let people know what was going on? This point happens in a few threads I read that are shot in the evening sunlight for example. The light IS warmer, therefore the skin colour will be warmer. I do value the comments of the more experienced photographers and of course I can accept the C&C, but if a comment is off the mark, I am entitled to say surely? The comment about the shadows is totally subjective and that, as I say and will continue to say, is the whole point of that photo. Maybe I don't come across very well on forums with articulating what I mean at times.

I think I just find, a lot of the times, some people view photos, portraits for example and go in with the mindset of 'subject must be on third', 'white balance must be 18% grey', or some other 'rule' and if someone has dared to do something different, they automatically assume they have done it badly or made an error. And it's not just my photos I am talking about. I have books here of photographers who make their livings from photography and teaching photography and some of the photos in their books would get hammered on here if they posted them anonymously.
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You ask if I feel you should have made your points more clear at the beginning of that thread. Well I did say that in my reply if you go back to it and look again. We all know this stuff is subjective, if I post any shots up and I am clearly happy with how they have turned up then I only have myself to blame if I get upset by comments saying I should have done this that and the other. Anything other than photo`s for pleasure is going to attract crit in some form or another. Again after reading this reply from you, if you know it is going to provoke people to tell you it should have been done differently then make yourself more clear from the start. There are a few dedicated forums out there that specialise in certain genre`s of photography, believe me TP is a pussycat compared to most when it comes to C&C, try sticking a few shots up on them and you will end up with third degree burns and come away speechless ;) I am really sorry you feel that my reply was abrupt and a little rude, however there is a little Red Triangle at the bottom of my post, you are more than within your rights to smack it one.
 
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u8myufo said:
I am really sorry you feel that my reply was abrupt and a little rude, however there is a little Red Triangle at the bottom of my post, you are more than within your rights to smack it one.
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As I said in my last post, maybe I was wrong to say that. But I do think that photography may not be for me. Over three years now of producing snapshots and absolute crap. I have wasted so much money buying and selling up again and again and have infact just ordered an X100. That might have to go straight back when it arrives.
 
Gazmotion if you are referring to my reason for editing certainly not intended to be a dig at you or anyone else, it was tongue in cheek general comment but on reflection was properly not relevant to this post. I have never seen a post where you have corrected grammar or spelling. I have removed reason for editing. Sorry If I have offended you.

The one post I saw of yours referred to earlier on shows me pictures that I think are of higher a standard than snapshots and are better than I could produce.
 
Why are you being so hard on yourself?

If you enjoy what you do isn't that what should matter to you most.
As others have said, this forum is very subjective and you feel no emotion because of the typed word. Don't let that stop you.

Is this the reason why you are now editing all your original posts to remove the images so no one else can comment on them?
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Suggestions such as what? In the thread that was linked do you mean?
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Suggestions in this thread ... but also take onboard any crit you get in your photo threads ... don't view it as criticism but as an opportunity to look at your pic another way. The crit may not be appropriate in your view but at least the person has taken the opportunity to respond so that's a positive. Over the week past I've put up a few that have never again seen the light of day so I haven't even had the opportunity of evaluating any crit.

Just because your photos may get some crit doesn't mean you are a rubbish photographer but taking offence and not gaining from the crit does mean that you are less likely to improve IMO.
 
stupar said:
Is this the reason why you are now editing all your original posts to remove the images so no one else can comment on them?
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No, my threads were done and dusted months ago so wouldn't have attracted any more comments anyway. The Flickr account and photobucket account have also just been deleted. :) (photobucket flagged for deletion with 48 hours)
 
You're deleting your image hosting accounts and may return your new camera because of the crit you receive on one forum?
 
Believe me you are not the first to feel the way you are at the moment. There are a lot of experienced togs on here that all of a sudden loose their Mojo. I cannot see many of your pics now and it looks like you have cancelled your Flickr account but you have had some really good positive comments in your threads. My advise would be do not think about selling your kit but put the camera down for a bit and take a breather and clear the head. After a while instead of feeling you must go out and take pictures you will be doing it because it gives you a break from other stuff in your life. All our situations are different so it is hard to advise much more. Photography is just like anything else, it has become popular, and you want to give it a try and some will obviously find it is not for them.
 
u8myufo said:
Believe me you are not the first to feel the way you are at the moment. There are a lot of experienced togs on here that all of a sudden loose their Mojo. I cannot see many of your pics now and it looks like you have cancelled your Flickr account but you have had some really good positive comments in your threads. My advise would be do not think about selling your kit but put the camera down for a bit and take a breather and clear the head. After a while instead of feeling you must go out and take pictures you will be doing it because it gives you a break from other stuff in your life. All our situations are different so it is hard to advise much more. Photography is just like anything else, it has become popular, and you want to give it a try and some will obviously find it is not for them.
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That's solid advice.
Prior to me selling my gear (change over not quiting) I felt like I was going backwards with my photography whilst others were racing ahead. In reality I wasn't it was just the way I was feeling.

I've had some time away from shooting images whilst the wife and I concentrated on getting our new house up and running and enjoying our son grow up.

Now though I am ready to pick the camera back up again (once it arrives anyway!)

It would be worth a shot for you to take this approach. It may just pay dividends.
Throwing the dummy out the pram has and never will be a rational way of thinking.
 
Gary, stop being hard on your self....you are simply at the 'Dammit I suck' stage... ride it out, put the camera down and do something else for a little while until the urge returns. This graph is a 'joke' but there isn't a photographer out there with more then a few years experience that hasn't looked at it and though 'Hell Yeah' ;)

photographer-graph-1024x858-1-580x485.png
 
Yv said:
Gary, stop being hard on your self....you are simply at the 'Dammit I suck' stage... ride it out, put the camera down and do something else for a little while until the urge returns. This graph is a 'joke' but there isn't a photographer out there with more then a few years experience that hasn't looked at it and though 'Hell Yeah' ;)
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Thanks, however, been here many times before in such a short space of time.
Been a camera owner for over 3 years now, started off by taking anything and everything before recently deciding I want to photograph people. Hoever, it doesn't appear to be going very well. Besides, I didn't really want this thread to turn into this and being about my photos, it just so happens someone linked to one of my threads.

And, who's Gary? :lol:
 
:lol: well if you will go chosing a username like that.... :p


Look seriously, 'people' are harder than you think, and only practice improves it and getting advice and feedback... or perhaps people just aren't for you. Either way, by all means throw in the towel, but don't see it as a permanent thing just yet, allow yourself some breathing space.

if its any consolation, it doesn't matter how experienced you are or how many people love you work, most of us feel our stuff is crap, or not progressing, stagnant, on a regular basis.... as unique as I am sure you are, not in this one matey :hug2:
 
A crit on a photo is just one persons opinion, it may be right or it may be wrong, either way the important thing is whether you like the photo or not.
Things like colours are very subjective, some people like a warm image others wont, get 10 photographers together in a room and you'll lightly get 10 different opinions
The person posting the crit may be trying to be helpfull (most are) or nit picking minutiae, remember many of us post when we are tired after a days work, or stressed and it's easy to say the wrong thing or come across wrongly a post.
I'd suggest that you don't take crits too seriously, enjoy your photography and as long as you like it thats what matters.
 
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Yv said:
if its any consolation, it doesn't matter how experienced you are or how many people love you work, most of us feel our stuff is crap, or not progressing, stagnant, on a regular basis.... as unique as I am sure you are, not in this one matey :hug2:
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Yeah Yv's stuff is crap permanently! (where's that tongue in cheek icon :eek: :D)
 
Yv said:
:lol: well if you will go chosing a username like that.... :p


Look seriously, 'people' are harder than you think, and only practice improves it and getting advice and feedback... or perhaps people just aren't for you.
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People are the only genre I am really interested in doing to be honest. Whether real people, street people or posed models. Maybe I have been a little too lazy with regards to shooting more and more, but I am finding it hard to be able to shoot the type of images I want to. As for my choice of username, I really do want to change it but not sure if that's possible here?

Maybe I should make more of an effore to photograph what I want to and really get stuck in to learning PP more.
 
"You are you-so be yourself, and be proud of it. Listen to criticism, but analyze it carefully and accept only that advice which you are convinced applies to you-your kind of work, your temperament and personality, your goals"

Taken from The Complete Photographer by Andreas Feininger in 1965 published by Thames and Hudson.

He also warns against "being part of that society for mutual admiration, the photo-club." :)
 
swanseamale47 said:
I'd suggest that you don't take crits too seriously, enjoy your photography and as long as you like it thats what matters.
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I kind of agree with you here but I do feel it's a fine line between improving and being stuck in what you like yourself which is actually pretty dire. I see a few folk who think their stuff is really amazing and get great comments on the likes of FaceTube (I don't really use it by the way, not for any photos whatsoever) from their friends and family telling them they are amazing when the photos are really pretty terrible. Where I do really want to improve and produce good, solid people photographs. I dunno, I have been here on many occasions on this forum and others and it keeps coming back to bite me.

My original point still stands though about people getting too hung up on technical aspects.
 
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