Terrorist papers photographed at No. 10
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Holden Caulfield
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So lets get this straight, the headlines on all the major TV Networks on the 8th of April were about the death of Ian Tomlinson who died of a heart attack after being pushed to the ground by a police officer. Clear video evidence of the push as well as a host of eyewitnesses ready to speak on the early evening news.
Then .
A senior and experienced anti terrorism officer , (who coincidently is part of the same force as the police officer mentioned above) allows himself to be photographed carrying sensitive documents which are clearly legible in the image.
Which
Because of this leak pushes an anti terrorism operation in Manchester forward which is then headline news on all the early evening news , replacing the news report of the death of Ian Tomlinson.
And ..
On April the 9th the officer in question who was clearly incompetent in terms of handling sensitive information, takes early retirement with a huge pension pot and no investigation.
Meanwhile
The news headiness run rampant with stories of Northern shopping centres being centres for terrorist activities.
Where are Mulder and Scullly when you need them most ?
Then .
A senior and experienced anti terrorism officer , (who coincidently is part of the same force as the police officer mentioned above) allows himself to be photographed carrying sensitive documents which are clearly legible in the image.
Which
Because of this leak pushes an anti terrorism operation in Manchester forward which is then headline news on all the early evening news , replacing the news report of the death of Ian Tomlinson.
And ..
On April the 9th the officer in question who was clearly incompetent in terms of handling sensitive information, takes early retirement with a huge pension pot and no investigation.
Meanwhile
The news headiness run rampant with stories of Northern shopping centres being centres for terrorist activities.
Where are Mulder and Scullly when you need them most ?
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Very well said Holden
'Roll up, Roll up! Come and see a magic trick! Watch the coin now......'
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Holden Caulfield
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And on tonights news the 9th of April
Lots of coverage on the suspected terrorists who were arrested because they had been observed" taking pictures of shopping centres and videos of expensive shops in St Annes Square Manchester"
And guess what, eleven of the the people arrested were from 'Pakistan' just imagine taking picures of places you would not find in your own country, they must be terrorists....
Oh yes and the story about Ian Tomlinson...gone from our screens ...the illusion of democracy.:shrug:
Lots of coverage on the suspected terrorists who were arrested because they had been observed" taking pictures of shopping centres and videos of expensive shops in St Annes Square Manchester"
And guess what, eleven of the the people arrested were from 'Pakistan' just imagine taking picures of places you would not find in your own country, they must be terrorists....
Oh yes and the story about Ian Tomlinson...gone from our screens ...the illusion of democracy.:shrug:
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Druid
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Of course they're going to be looking for any possible excuse to crack down on people photographing the police doing things that they don't want to be photographed doing.
Given what the IPCC were saying before the Guardian published that video, it's quite clear that the whole incident would have been comfortably swept under the carpet out of sight with no difficult questions asked. The video, especially because it was given to a newspaper rather than the IPCC made all the difference. Now some real questions are being asked about the way demos are policed, questions that are very inconvenient. So I would expect to see a crackdown on photographing police. It's not as though they lack the powers to abuse for this purpose.
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And on tonights news the 9th of April
Lots of coverage on the suspected terrorists who were arrested because they had been observed" taking pictures of shopping centres and videos of expensive shops in St Annes Square Manchester"
And guess what, eleven of the the people arrested were from 'Pakistan' just imagine taking picures of places you would not find in your own country, they must be terrorists....
Oh yes and the story about Ian Tomlinson...gone from our screens ...the illusion of democracy.:shrug:
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,...
and the script writers are taking the P if they think I'm buying that BS!
arclight
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Yip, I tend to agree. Got to admit that this one does not sit easy with me.
If this was a stage managed stunt to publicise an anti terr. operation and/or bury other events it was a bit of a crude botch up.
Quick was a very experienced police officer. These guys have made a science out of keeping their cards close to their chests and yet he gets out of a car with the file in full view (no one should have been able to see the file title, least of all the contents) and effectively comes to within an ace of screaming "Read all about it".
H
Holden Caulfield
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Whats the betting that the police will find no evidence of any explosives or terrorist materials on the individuals they arrested on the 8th of April.
We will have the usual guff about expiered visa's a few toursit pictures of the Arndale centre,lots of hot air about al-Qaida.
This countrys in so much trouble :shake:
We will have the usual guff about expiered visa's a few toursit pictures of the Arndale centre,lots of hot air about al-Qaida.
This countrys in so much trouble :shake:
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It's a rather feeble attempt at misdirection.
Indeed, but it's the entire world that is in trouble, over half of it has been in trouble for a considerable amount of time.
The real terrorists of this world do not wear robes or live in caves, they wear suits and operate within banking cartels.
H
Holden Caulfield
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And they are sponsered by the US Government
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And they are sponsered by the US Government
Or the British government, or German government, or any other government....
Photographer: "I have told Downing Street before that the quality of lenses and digital lenses means that we can read ministerial papers".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-the-Government-before-in-Downing-Street.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-the-Government-before-in-Downing-Street.html
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That was the secondary bonus to this pathetic and very staged farce, the primary reason was to fill the headlines forcing attention away from Ian Tomlinsons death at the G20 Summit and then secondly, to put another bullet in the gun for anti 'terror' laws concerning photography in public places.
Surely no one believes that top secret documents are ever flashed around in public places where they can be photographed?
arclight
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The pink folder that they should have been in is clearly on view. It's a con job.
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David blunket has a point
Pretty much anyone going to the door of No10 will be filmed, on camera, shot by a PAP
Also.. Most PAP's will just bang off the images to the paper by 3g phone, without looking at the minute details on the image. Yes on a Eizo monitor, at 100% you can read a brief taken from accross the road in downing street. But not on the back of the camera (very unlikley) in terms of time and ability
Pretty much anyone going to the door of No10 will be filmed, on camera, shot by a PAP
Also.. Most PAP's will just bang off the images to the paper by 3g phone, without looking at the minute details on the image. Yes on a Eizo monitor, at 100% you can read a brief taken from accross the road in downing street. But not on the back of the camera (very unlikley) in terms of time and ability
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Of course and that's why the location was so suitable. Quick might as well have been wearing a sandwich board with all the supposed top secret details displayed.
After all the dribble were are constantly subjected to concerning terrorist threats around every corner, top secret documents are fancifully paraded outside number 10?
This attempt at misdirection is absurd.
Let's go a little further now, should photography in public places be more controlled in the effort to prevent and protect ourselves from 'terrorism'?
Let's say for example that legislation was passed and it became highly controlled or banned, maybe in future, a license is going to be required to own and allow the use of devices that are capable of recording moments in time, whether it's a stills camera or a video camera, accredited representatives could end up being the only authorized users.
Is this really going to contribute to end 'terrorism', the media and their masters will find another element to push, to extort, the constant hammering of supposed terrorist threats will not stop at the prohibition of photography in public places.
It will get worse because it's getting results, because more and more people are buying it, more and more people undoubtably believe everything that is pushed into a newspaper and shown on TV.
Marc
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I have never heard such a lot of paranoid crap in all my life. To claim that it is a set up is absolutely absurd, a product of imaginations gone wild. To go to those lengths just to knock a story off the front page for a few days is quite preposterous and absolutely untrue. And before anyone demands that I provide any evidence of these, it is those who make the allegations who need to provide the proof. It's very easy when something happens to claim that something else is true without evidence to back it up.
Oh, and it's his wife who runs the wedding car hire business, not him.
Oh, and it's his wife who runs the wedding car hire business, not him.
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Well said, fabs.......
........it's behind you!
........it's behind you!
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Oh, of course, because that never happens does it. This has been happening for years, it is not conspiracy theory, it is not a result of imaginations gone wild, it is not preposterous.
There are so many examples of this in history but here's a nice old and very pertinent one for you:
May 7th 1915, everyone was strongly in opposition of going to War, when low and behold an event happens to cause the vote to radically change direction, read more here.
RMS Lusitania
War makes profit. Fact, do you think Iraq was invaded to rid the people of an evil nasty horrible dictator too?
I won't make any demands other than make the gentle nudge to opening up and considering that just because it's presented to you by media, does not mean that it's the truth.
Call me a 'conspiracy theorist' if you wish even though I find it extremely offensive for anyone to do so.
It's also quite upsetting that whenever this kind of discussion rears itself, overly sensitive defense is the first reaction rather than consideration of the possibilities.
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Tomas, we are talking about this specific incident only here. If you were hauled up in court and found guilty of a crime purely on the basis that your great grandfather did the same thing nearly 100 years ago, would you deem that fair? And I can't see how calling someone a conspiracy theorist is offensive. However, making an allegation without any prove is.
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I would like to continue this discussion respectively and in a civilized manner, we have before now conversed in such manners and I will be grateful if you could do so now, I am not a conspiracy theorist fanatic, I do not believe in Aliens or Sasquatch and the like.
I am not an irrational or insanely paranoid individual with crazed images of government conspiracy. I don't talk crap either.
Can I ask, do you believe that sensitive top secret documents are simply carried in ring binder folders during transportation? During this time of apparent and supposed terrorist threat?
I personally credit British Intelligence with much more sense than that, I strongly doubt that Mr Quick is, was or could ever be that stupid.
The only proof you have is what you've read in a newspaper or seen on TV.
I simply cannot provide any proof and neither can you. I am stating my belief as you are.
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Correct, it is a possibility and in my opinion much more likely, Holden raised some incredibly pertinent points, so much so that I feel they are worth mentioning a second time:
And on tonights news the 9th of April
Lots of coverage on the suspected terrorists who were arrested because they had been observed" taking pictures of shopping centres and videos of expensive shops in St Annes Square Manchester"
And guess what, eleven of the the people arrested were from 'Pakistan' just imagine taking picures of places you would not find in your own country, they must be terrorists....
Oh yes and the story about Ian Tomlinson...gone from our screens ...the illusion of democracy.:shrug:
Or we could come to the conclusion that a senior and experienced anti terrorism officer, mistakenly hopped over to number 10, where being photographed upon arrival is undoubtably certain, carrying top secret documents, of which the most revealing one happened to be on top of the pile!
Compared to all the mess, falsifying an act such as this is a walk in the park, it's not going to be any trouble at all in comparison.
The result is that now the death of Mr Tomlinson is as good as forgotten, anti terror stances are now more in favour and also photography in public places stands a lot more of a chance of being restricted in some way.
This kind of tactic is extremely old and it is still utilized today, it's a proven strategic method, just with the RMS Lusitania, Hitler burning his own buildings and blaming Jews, the long and drawn out Vietnam war with all it's ridiculous restrictions that the Cong were quite aware and took full advantage of, 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq, the list goes on.
I ask myself, for such an old trick in the book, why on earth would it not be called upon to diffuse and also enforce the current predicament?
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It wouldn't make any difference - they'd leave it on a train with a post it note with the access code written on it stuck to it...
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Holden Caulfield
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Marc
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I'm sorry, I'm confused here. Are you saying that I have somehow conversed in a manner that offends you? If that is the case then I apologise as it was not my intention. I was referring to what I believed to be crap (Maybe a poor choice of words) in general in this thread and was not specifically aimed at you.
Yes, I do accept that these things do happen. However, I do not believe in the ethos of "It has happened before therefore it MUST be happening now". Foul ups occur and this was, in my opinion, a monumental foul up probably caused by the man being under intense pressure (No, I'm not defending him).
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No problem at all Mark
I was just trying to be clear that I can talk about my beliefs and hear yours too but would rather not if things start to get personal or seem like some kind of attack.I'm not from those necks of the woods either in terms of ethos, for me, these events are no different however, it's all too convenient, sensitive documents are simply not transported is such a dated and vulnerable manner IMO, especially considering the volume of reminders that we are constantly under terrorist threats.
If everyday folk are being harassed in the streets for taking a few snaps as it is considered a potential terrorist threat, then I'm certain that documents such as these would never be transported out in the open.
The fact that it was in front of number 10 puts the cherry atop of the turd too.
The Quick Incident has detracted from Tomlinson's death, adds support to the ever farsical 'anti terror' schemes and will most likely add considerable support for restrictions on photography in public places. I guess we shall see.
When the people are in opposition, the possibilities of an event happening to sway their opinion is remarkably high, too high to ignore.
There's just too many anomalies with this incident to dismiss.
Marc
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I agree in parts but I just can't bring myself to believe that they would go to these lengths just to keep another story off the front page for a couple of days. I still think that even the most experienced of people can make horrendous mistakes.
D
Druid
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The part I have real trouble with is the idea that a senior cop would scupper his career for this reason. They could perfectly easily have simply decided to bring the raids forward without citing this incident as an excuse.
It also really doesn't take much imagination to come up with various plausible ways to manufacture some sort of incident to 'prove' that photography should be further restricted, without a senior policeman damaging his own career.
I have no trouble believing that they'd want to 'bury' the Tomlinson story though, and it's evident that they have zero sense of common decency when it comes to news management.
Remember this story?
It also really doesn't take much imagination to come up with various plausible ways to manufacture some sort of incident to 'prove' that photography should be further restricted, without a senior policeman damaging his own career.
I have no trouble believing that they'd want to 'bury' the Tomlinson story though, and it's evident that they have zero sense of common decency when it comes to news management.
Remember this story?
H
Holden Caulfield
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Really, raids such as this are usually undertaken in the early hours of the morning to protect the public and make it logistically easy to find the suspects, if these so called terrorist had explosives, or weapons and had used them on the afternoon of April the 9th to resist being captured then public opinion may have been that the Police may have been incompetent in bringing the raid forward for no good reason.
As for Mr Quick, risking his career, I am sure that a huge index linked pension and early retirement at 49 from a very stressful job would cushion the blow considerably.
Remember yesterdays newspaper is todays chip paper
arclight
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Correct - there is insuffient evidence to support a conclusion, but there is enough to support a suspicion. Esp. when the gov involved got into a war on the basis of some dodgy intelligence.
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So, what's the latest on this then :|?
I live in Germany and don't get much detailed UK news coverage. Have there been any repercussions for the photographer responsible (unlikely), or indeed, photographers at large
?
I must admit, the first thing that went through my mind when I saw this story on the news was, "Oh great! Now everyone with a camera in a public place is going to be seen as a threat to national security"! :shake:
I take it that nothing's changed?
I live in Germany and don't get much detailed UK news coverage. Have there been any repercussions for the photographer responsible (unlikely), or indeed, photographers at large
?I must admit, the first thing that went through my mind when I saw this story on the news was, "Oh great! Now everyone with a camera in a public place is going to be seen as a threat to national security"! :shake:
I take it that nothing's changed
?
arclight
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So, what's the latest on this then :|?
I live in Germany and don't get much detailed UK news coverage. Have there been any repercussions for the photographer responsible (unlikely), or indeed, photographers at large
I must admit, the first thing that went through my mind when I saw this story on the news was, "Oh great! Now everyone with a camera in a public place is going to be seen as a threat to national security"! :shake:
I take it that nothing's changed
Nothing has happened to the photographer as far as I know (Steve Back - who is also a magistrate). He specialises in this sort of thing. However, his website http://politicalpictures.co.uk,/ appears to be unavailable just now - don't know why.
He photographed the Housing Minister, Carolyn Flint, with confidential papers about the forthcoming housing market collapse.
He informed the gov of the capability of current photographic equipment to capture the detail on files carried openly (The gov has regular repeat briefings on how to transport confidential papers etc)
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Here's the 'particulars' on the raid(s).
'Police are not thought to have recovered any explosive devices during their searches. BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner said his understanding was that the alleged plot had been at the "aspirational, not operational" stage.'
'Police are not thought to have recovered any explosive devices during their searches. BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner said his understanding was that the alleged plot had been at the "aspirational, not operational" stage.'