Review Testing New Profoto OCF 2' Silver Soft light • Part 2: Options on Model

Kodiak Qc

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BD%20Metal18pp.jpg


Shooting conditions

— Mid tone grey BG paper
— Profoto B1 light source positioned to optimize the respective
differences between the tested options
— All SOOC and uncropped


Profoto OCF 2' Silver Soft light this unit does not offer a glass
deflector but, contrary to the metal version, permits zooming the
flash head
1, with its original deflector and optional frosted dome in inner most position

BD%20Metal14pp.jpg


2, with its original deflector and optional frosted dome in outer most position

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3, with its original deflector and original B1 frosted plate in outer most position

BD%20Metal16pp.jpg


4, with its original deflector and original B1 frosted plate in inner most position

 
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I'm not sure what you mean by innermost/outermost... i.e. zoom positions 8 and 4?
Looks like w/ the dome and outermost position is the best result... it has the least notable double shadow IMO. Is there a distance where the light focuses and that goes away? With the dome also seems to be doing a better job of pulling out details (i.e lower lip).

And it seems there might be a weird inversion going on with the zoom function? Understanding "outermost" as meaning "as far back as possible/most zoomed" (i.e. position 4), your actually getting less concentration/focus. I would guess that is due to more light going directly past the deflector plate.
 
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Hi all just showing my level here, i'm struggling to see vast differances here. I do realise you guys are paid photogs so should be able to see many differances. Could you point out the double shadows and explain what are the main differances on these? The feel and overall mood of them look very similiar to the untrained eye.

Gaz
 
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explain what are the main differances on these?


Hi Gary, if I may, I'll try to.

The original name of this reflector is "softlight"! Many
reflectors already existed, all giving the same hard or
harsh light but optimizing either the spot, the spread
or the falloff in all combinations to achieve given looks.

The quest for the looks and its variations created for the
interested engineers and designers a proper challenge
and got them to the R&D's drawing boards.

The softlight is what it says: a softlight (not a soft box!).
It is softer than say a Magnum reflector (that is meant to
throw the maximum power quite far and give the look
of a Sun on the set) because of two features:
— size: the larger the light source the softer the light
— shape: here the options are three — the circle, the
rectangle and the ring.

The circular flash head was set around the lens; it was
making the camera a lot heavier and cumbersome… not
everyone liked the circular light in the eyes! … 'was trendy
but it passed!


The softlight goes a step further in giving a circular light
source but bigger (so softer) and keeping the crispiness
of the spots… a crispy soft light!?!?!?!?

Yes! The soft box emits from all its surface and the only
thing one can control is the wrapping effect. The softlight
emits its crisp light mainly from the edges of the reflector
in the spot area. The spread is not so crisp but softer and
the falloff is all softness.

The crispiness effect of the softlight comes from a quite
narrow band of light all around the reflector. This implies
that for every points emitting light toward the subject, there
is a second one at an opposite position on the rim… and
this all around the peripheral reflective area, like a circular
flash head. These two light emitting points are responsible
for both the crispiness and the shadows BUT… the fantastic
features of the softlight are not fixed to the lens! One may
move it, optimize its position for spread, spot or falloff and
will not
necessarily show as a ring in the eyes.


This text was carefully translated from French and painstakingly
typed (I hate typing) so forgive me my usual clumsiness in English.
 
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Hi Daniel.
Yes I am well aware of your language barriers so no need for a disclaimer with me ! I would like to say that is most clear now, but I would be fibbing :-( me being a bit on the slow side to take things on board !
I will read this a few more times in the hope at least some of it will stay in the brain.

thanks for all your time in writing this.

Gaz
 
Hi all just showing my level here, i'm struggling to see vast differances here.
TBH, it's not terribly obvious if you don't know what you are looking for. And the smaller images and the test subject both make it less apparent.

The purpose of a parabolic dish (sat dish/beauty dish) is to take a point source and refocus it to a point. As Kodiak explained, at the dish surface itself the light isn't unified, it is in "rings"... (that might be easier to understand if you think of the dish as being made from flat bands/rings instead of a smooth bowl). And it isn't until some point later that all of the light focuses together.
A parabolic dish is designed with a fixed focus... i.e. the light source must be at a specific point/distance in the dish in order to function "correctly." But there are so many variables that they give you some ability to adjust/tune the results (i.e. the typical dished deflector plate can be adjusted in distance and flipped). And just because a parabolic dish is meant to focus, that doesn't "necessarily" mean you want to use it that way (i.e. focused)... But when used otherwise (i.e. with diffusion over it) it is not acting as a beauty dish any longer...

Typically, uneven light spread/dish surface is the cause of notable double shadows, which typically occur when the light is too close, i.e. before it has focused. And it is the stronger "side angle" of the light which brings out finer details, much like hard side lighting does.

I took the two images where the deflector was the closest to the bulb (because that is *probably* closer to optimal placement/design) to show what I was talking about and some of the finer differences. Unfortunately, molded plastic doesn't have a lot of fine details to be seen... and in this case many of the features are painted on (eyes/cheek hollows/etc) which hides even more of the effects. Although, plastic does tend to be much more reflective than skin so the highlights tend to be hotter in such test shots. Plus, we are looking at rather small files.

The double shadows are easier to see under the chin where they are the largest, but they also exist under the lip, nose, etc (everywhere really).

Untitled-1.jpg

But, the fact that most of the differences (other than light on the BG) are rather small between all of the images, and considering how significant the adjustments (dome/flat/zoom position) *should have been* to the results makes me question the suitability of the modifier as a beauty dish. But this limited test doesn't really give me enough to say for sure.
 
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While I appreciate all Kodiak's hard work here, I have to say this level of technical subtlety leaves me a bit cold. The differences are tiny and I can't say it would make any difference to me either way. And if this is all anyone's got to worry about, then they are master portrait artists for sure. Personally, I can think of at least a dozen other far more important considerations for a successful session, and most of them nothing to do with lighting.

Big light = soft, small light = hard. If you just get that bit right, you'll not go far wrong, regardless. Umbrella, softbox, beauty dish - at the same size/distance, there's precious little to choose between them. And certainly nothing that's really going to make or break the shot.

Along kind of similar lines, on the current sequins thread a portrait of Gabby Logan has been posted. Our Garry has rightly criticised it for being a poor example of how to light a sequinned dress, and in the context of that thread it is a bad example. But that misses the point - it's a fashion-style portrait, bright and brash with big vivacious smile. It's a great shot of Gabby IMHO, obviously good enough to make the cover of the Express Saturday magazine, and the splash of blitzed highlights suits the image and the composition, even if it's theoretically a technical flaw in the lighting. More than any other genre, portraiture is about the subject and getting the most from them. The right pose, at the right moment, with the right gesture and expression - they're worth a thousand beauty dishes.

Oops! Bit of a rant there :D
 
I have to say this level of technical subtlety leaves me a bit cold



Fair enough…

as this was not meant as a lighting class for everyone
but an illustration of the advantages offered by this new
modifier for those using the system and may not have
had the chance to try it yet.


The system users will appreciate the subtle differences
and see that …


— the modifier is really doing what it was designed for
— B1 and B2 offer interesting and other sets of options
— the smaller depth size (compared to the OCF softbox)
may be a better solution for some or, as for me, comple-
mentary

— perfectly integrated in the OCF system etc.

Users will definitely know what to look for and extrapolate
these results to their work and approach.

I see this tool as a very efficient and practical tool for on-
location session, a logical addition to my actual set of tools.
 
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While I appreciate all Kodiak's hard work here, I have to say this level of technical subtlety leaves me a bit cold. The differences are tiny and I can't say it would make any difference to me either way. And if this is all anyone's got to worry about, then they are master portrait artists for sure. Personally, I can think of at least a dozen other far more important considerations for a successful session, and most of them nothing to do with lighting.

Big light = soft, small light = hard. If you just get that bit right, you'll not go far wrong, regardless. Umbrella, softbox, beauty dish - at the same size/distance, there's precious little to choose between them. And certainly nothing that's really going to make or break the shot.

Along kind of similar lines, on the current sequins thread a portrait of Gabby Logan has been posted. Our Garry has rightly criticised it for being a poor example of how to light a sequinned dress, and in the context of that thread it is a bad example. But that misses the point - it's a fashion-style portrait, bright and brash with big vivacious smile. It's a great shot of Gabby IMHO, obviously good enough to make the cover of the Express Saturday magazine, and the splash of blitzed highlights suits the image and the composition, even if it's theoretically a technical flaw in the lighting. More than any other genre, portraiture is about the subject and getting the most from them. The right pose, at the right moment, with the right gesture and expression - they're worth a thousand beauty dishes.

Oops! Bit of a rant there :D
I've clicked on "Like" because I agree, largely. Certainly, there are very many other factors that can make or break a good portrait and which, to most people anyway, are far more important. The average and typical reader of this forum needs to think about these factors rather than the technical excellence (or otherwise) of specific light modifiers.
There's a photo, by Yousuf Karsh, of Winston Churchill, now appearing on a new banknote. Karsh didn't have any fancy modifiers, he took his famous photo of Churchill back in the days when photographic lighting equipment barely existed and photographers needed real knowledge, plus people skills, to get the results that they wanted, and of course those skills are just as important now. Allegedly, Karsh got the look by snatching Churchill's cigar out of his mouth, which p***ed him off and produced the right look.

But I can't agree with this specific statement
Big light = soft, small light = hard. If you just get that bit right, you'll not go far wrong, regardless. Umbrella, softbox, beauty dish - at the same size/distance, there's precious little to choose between them. And certainly nothing that's really going to make or break the shot.
Simply because, in the world of high end fashion and cosmetic photography, it just isn't correct, these are the areas in which tiny differences separate bad shots from good ones, good ones from outstanding ones, winners from losers.
I applaud Kodiak for posting his reviews, even though I can't agree with much of what he says.
I don't agree because removing a diffuser from a softbox and adding some kind of deflector plate results, not an a beauty dish, but in a softbox that has a deflector instead of a diffuser. That makes it another, potentially useful type of modifier but it doesn't make it a beauty dish. And sticking an expensive brand name on it doesn't make it good, it just makes it expensive.
A real beauty dish isn't octagonal, it's round, and has a stepped design that creates rings of light. The best one on the market, by a country mile, is made by Mola and there's nothing else like it - well, actually there is, a Chinese copy that's still much too expensive for most people.
The 'standard' beauty dishes, which all look very similar to each other (but which are in fact different because, in the world of physics, small differences in the size, shape and position of the deflector can make a big difference) aren't really beauty dishes at all, they are made in a Chinese factory that makes industrial lighting reflectors - yes, these are the old fashioned lampshades used for factory lighting, and called "Beauty dishes" (or, as the Chinese call them, "Radar Reflectors" but they are still lampshades.
To get them to behave like real beauty dishes, the standard deflector plate as supplied needs to be thrown away and a new one, which looks similar but which isn't, needs to be substituted. The beauty dish will then focus as expected, or at least it will if the mounting arrangement and the position of the flash tube is right, a difference of just a milimetre or two can make an enormous difference to the performance.
Most people can't tell the difference beween a beauty dish that works and one that doesn't, so here at Lencarta we've given up on the current design and have sold off our stock of them at half price, which is below cost price. As this product has now gone, presumably it's OK to post that link. In future, people who want to buy on price can get them from Ebay sellers, including some who claim to be photographic specialists.
 
I guess the point I was making is not a technical one - I understand the technical aspects and respect those views. No argument there. It's more about relevance really, in the context of all the things that go into making a great portrait, and a bit off-topic in that respect so apologies there :)

Mention of Karsh rings a bell. My school library had a book of his portraits and I remember staring at them long and hard, looking for what it was that, apparently, made them so good. I really didn't like them, and still don't much. Very stylised and statue-like, without much personality that I could see, and mostly too dark. Shot on large format and heavily retouched. Then I went to college where they had a copy of David Bailey's Goodbye baby and amen, and what a difference - just the opposite of Karsh! That book had a big impact on me, and I really should have nicked it (those first editions are worth serious money now).

Karsh had to work within serious equipment limitations, and that dictated a certain style. On the other hand, Bailey decides on the look he wants and selects the equipment accordingly. It's just a different order of priorities, which is where I'm coming from. And it has to be said, Bailey is no stranger to the beauty dish :D
 
Well, I don't disagree with you about Karsh but he was a man of his time.
Bailey came later, immensely talented and innovative, and part of that innovation was driven by need - back when I knew him, he was struggling with money and equipment and had to make do, and one of his ways of making do was to shoot on 35mm instead of the much more professional large format cameras that we all used at the time. In order to get reasonable image quality from what was a poor amateur format, he made sure that he used every single one of those 864 sq mm:)
On the lighting front, I remember that he had 2 (I think) of those horrible Paterson photoflood lights, and had to make do with them. Skill, knowledge and care trumps gear every time, and he has never been a fanboy when it comes to equipment - the Olympus(?) connection was of course just advertising.
 
I guess the point I was making is not a technical one - I understand the technical aspects and respect those views. No argument there. It's more about relevance really, in the context of all the things that go into making a great portrait, and a bit off-topic in that respect so apologies there :)
That just goes back to the point that there is no such thing as "bad light." It's what you do with what you have that matters... and everything is subjective. And that is why I said I question the modifiers suitability *as a beauty dish*... because it doesn't seem to generate that specific effect very well. But that certainly doesn't make it "unusable."

Plus there are a couple of things to keep in mind... A mannequin head made of plastic with painted features makes discerning the true effects more difficult. And a BD really only comes together ideally within a short range of distances. It is quite possible that the results will be different/better at another distance which was not tested.

But I have to disagree with this bit.
Big light = soft, small light = hard. If you just get that bit right, you'll not go far wrong, regardless. Umbrella, softbox, beauty dish - at the same size/distance, there's precious little to choose between them. And certainly nothing that's really going to make or break the shot.
Yes, in the right situation there is little to differentiate between a softbox and a shoot through umbrella... but that's about it. There is a huge difference between a BD and the others *when used as a BD* (if you put a sock on it it is not a BD, it is a round softbox with a "dead center"). Just like there are significant/notable differences between a silver bounce vs shoot through, silver bounce vs parabolic, BD vs gridded reflector, smaller softbox vs larger w/ a grid, etc, etc.

There are a lot of things that can mitigate the differences/importance... i.e. If you're not using much light from it, it won't have much impact. Or, if you're using it from too far away, you might as well use something smaller or nothing at all. And that makes the point, if you don't see the differences or they don't really matter to you, then you shouldn't buy the stuff. I do agree that there are situations/subjects where the differences matter less... sometimes *much* less. And sometimes it can matter quite a lot (i.e. product photography can be much more demanding).

But, it is not understanding the differences, and "misuse" (misrepresentation) of the equipment that actually causes people to buy the wrong equipment or things they don't need.
And IMO, this particular modifier has been hugely misrepresented/misleadingly marketed... but without hands on testing (and examples like these) I can't say if the marketing is actually just lies.
 
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A last exercise version w. BG
and edited in Affinity Photo.

This is a
large size low res jpg…


poupee%200860ppLG.jpg
 
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What did you change? The angle and exposure are different, plus editing so I'm not sure what can be extrapolated.

Either way, I think this is the best result and I would be perfectly happy with it.
 
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What did you change? The angle and exposure are different,
To make sure the test was easy to see,
it was shot on tripod. The position was
set to demonstrate the options and not
for best results.
plus editing
…well, the mannequin suffered a bit!
I'm not sure what can be extrapolated.
the users will know.
Either way, I think this is the best result and I would be perfectly happy with it.
This take was optimized for best results and shot handheld.
 
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