The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

nandbytes said:
Two bodies with probably different lenses giving complimentary field of view. So if you still want to use the other lens you are screwed. Messing about changing lenses takes more than 5 seconds too.
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Not sure i can think of or any any sporting moment that the moment lasts 12 seconds without pause.
 
A good friend of mine borrowed my A7 with 50/1.8 and 28-70 to test out alongside his Nikon D600 in a studio shoot he was doing yesterday. He called me last night to tell me that he's ordering an A7! He's going through the shots today but sent me over an early edit of one last night and I can see why. The dynamic range of the A7 blew away the Nikon (his words) and he ended up using it for most of the shoot.

I can't share the photo here because it's for a client but it shows how even a MK1 with the FE50/1.8 is more then capable in the right hands.
 
Oh, I also ordered a Samyang 14/2.8 last night from Amazon Warehouse. I've been testing out an OM Zuiko 24/2.8 with a view to taking it to Florida with me in a few months but found the Samyang for a good price so I can't wait to try it out.
 
stevelmx5 said:
I can only go on the feelings of a photographer using the kit side by side in the studio. I'm not a massive of fan of paper stats.
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So you think a subjective view of one person is more accurate than independent tests by well known testers in the industry
 
nandbytes said:
So you think a subjective view of one person is more accurate than independent tests by well known testers in the industry
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Yes. The subjective view of someone who makes their living as a photographer/illustrator means more to me than reading a graph of tests done in lab conditions. I've never even looked at the numbers because I'd rather use kit myself and judge the results, or speak to others who actually use the kit.

Out of interest, what is the paper difference between the A7 and D600 sensors? Edit: I've added them below.
 
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stevelmx5 said:
Yes. The subjective view of someone who makes their living as a photographer/illustrator means more to me than reading a graph of tests done in lab conditions. I've never even looked at the numbers because I'd rather use kit myself and judge the results, or speak to others who actually use the kit.

Out of interest, what is the paper difference between the A7 and D600 sensors? Edit: I've added them below.
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Yup. Specs are lovely but I like opinions too especially as it's sometimes hard to judge from images on the net unless you go to the trouble of downloading, processing and printing so it's nice if someone actually gives and opinion.
 
IMG_8470.jpg

Colour depth of 22 is excellent, differences less than 1 are barely noticeable (0.3 difference)

IMG_8471.jpg

12 EV is excellent, differences below 0.5 are usually not noticeable (both exactly the same)

As far as I can see, the only reason the D600 scores higher is the low light high ISO sports score. I don't shoot low light high ISO sports, I shoot portraits in the studio and landscapes, hence why the difference in the real world means more than a graph on paper.
 
One last Rokkor 55mm f1.7 shot, 100% crop. Looking at the shutter speed of 1/5000 I guess this is at f1.7.

View attachment 108916

I'm quite happy with this lens so all I need now is free time to go out and use it :D

And one more thing.

I think it'd be great if we had the chance to buy lenses like this today, new, and in Sony mount so we didn't need an adapter. I do wish someone in China would start knocking these out with the same build and image quality. I'd be very happy to give him some money.
 
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stevelmx5 said:
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May as well sell the Sony now because it only gets 90 (whatevers) overall but the D600 gets 94 (whatevers). Interesting to see that the landscape dynamic range is exactly the same though?
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I've owned both as well as the D750. It's true that the A9 has worse dynamic range.

But I also know which camera is my favourite.

If I were purely shooting landscapes then the A9 wouldn't be my weapon of choice. Just in the same way I wouldn't choose a spanner to hammer a nail.

For me, shooting weddings. The A9 is perfect. Just perfect.
 
gadgeteer said:
I've owned both as well as the D750. It's true that the A9 has worse dynamic range.

But I also know which camera is my favourite.

If I were purely shooting landscapes then the A9 wouldn't be my weapon of choice. Just in the same way I wouldn't choose a spanner to hammer a nail.

For me, shooting weddings. The A9 is perfect. Just perfect.
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I fully agree that the right camera for the situation is more important than a random score on paper. However, I'm talking about the A7, not the A9 :0).

As you say, according to DxO, the A9 only scored 2 points higher than my A7 but in the real world, I wouldn't try shooting fast action sports with the A7!
 
@woof woof - I ordered that lens from rockycameras but didn't get any order confirmation. I only got worldpay payment confirmation. :confused:
Well if anything goes wrong I am blaming you :D
 
I don't think he works every day so I wouldn't panic too much.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Yes. The subjective view of someone who makes their living as a photographer/illustrator means more to me than reading a graph of tests done in lab conditions. I've never even looked at the numbers because I'd rather use kit myself and judge the results, or speak to others who actually use the kit.

Out of interest, what is the paper difference between the A7 and D600 sensors? Edit: I've added them below.
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measured from actual RAW files from both cameras. his methods are fully explained and transparent.
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon D600,Sony ILCE-7

stevelmx5 said:
View attachment 108912

May as well sell the Sony now because it only gets 90 (whatevers) overall but the D600 gets 94 (whatevers). Interesting to see that the landscape dynamic range is exactly the same though?
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Also on DXO instead I suggest you post a screenshot of the dynamic range and SNR curves. That'll show D600 has better dynamic range. You have simply picked the screenshot to suit your conclusions.
 
nandbytes said:
measured from actual RAW files from both cameras. his methods are fully explained and transparent.
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon D600,Sony ILCE-7



Also on DXO instead I suggest you post a screenshot of the dynamic range and SNR curves. That'll show D600 has better dynamic range. You have simply picked the screenshot to suit your conclusions.
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I searched for both cameras and shared the high level results for both using the side by side comparison option. I have no desire to go into SNR curves or dynamic range graphs as they don't mean anything to me. As I said previously, I will take the genuine real-world feedback from an actual photographer using a camera in the environment I shoot in over someone sitting in a lab drawing graphs. There may be a 0.3 difference in Portrait colour depth but that means nothing to me with regards to the end result.
 
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stevelmx5 said:
Awesome. So in the real world, would you say that the differences shown on that graph you linked to are actually visible to the naked eye in the final result? Would you base your decision to purchase a system on the back of a chart like that?
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From the 5d4 and a7r2/d810 there's no noticeable difference in real world. Something ground breaking has to be served on sensors now.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Awesome. So in the real world, would you say that the differences shown on that graph you linked to are actually visible to the naked eye in the final result? Would you base your decision to purchase a system on the back of a chart like that?
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For one I can't go out and test every single body against each other. So I have to rely on independent unbiased reviews which tests in like for like conditions instead of subjective opinions which don't really say much.

I have tested nikon bodies (not D600 but D610 and D750) and both have more dynamic range than A7.

But I don't base my decision entirely on charts and specs (if I did I wouldn't own A7 or A7RII) but to some extent they are useful and more so than subjective opinion as they are not facts.

My point is not that A7 or D600 is better camera, I am simply saying subjective opinions don't change facts about measurable like dynamic range or ISO performance. How much it affects someones photography is up to the individual to decide. Subjective opinions on the other hand is very useful for things like ergonomics and handling which can't exactly be measured.
 
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nandbytes said:
For one I can't go out and test every single body against each other. So I have to rely on independent unbiased reviews which tests in like for like conditions instead of subjective opinions which don't really say much.

I have tested nikon bodies (not D600 but D610 and D750) and both have more dynamic range than A7.

But I don't base my decision entirely on charts and specs (if I did I wouldn't own A7 or A7RII) but to some extent they are useful and more so than subjective opinion as they are not facts.
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The d750 sensor performs quite a bit better than the a7 ime.... that means the d610 will and so will the d600. I got what the figures suggest in real world comparisons.
 
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nandbytes said:
For one I can't go out and test every single body against each other. So I have to rely on independent unbiased reviews which tests in like for like conditions instead of subjective opinions which don't really say much.

I have tested nikon bodies (not D600 but D610 and D750) and both have more dynamic range than A7.

But I don't base my decision entirely on charts and specs (if I did I wouldn't own A7 or A7RII) but to some extent they are useful and more so than subjective opinion as they are not facts.
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How is the feedback of an actual photographer who makes their living taking actual photographs in the actual real world not a fact? I understand that a graph/chart will give finite detail at all levels but surely photography isn't all about cold numbers?

Out of interest, what sort of subjects do you usually shoot? I've had a quick look and can only see one post sharing photos. Was there a reason you bought into Sony with lower DR over the Nikon?
 
twist said:
The d750 sensor performs quite a bit better than the a7 ime.... that means the d610 will and so will the d600. I get what the figures suggest also in real world comparisons.
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Begs to wonder why canon sensors Dr can't trickle down the 6d2
 
stevelmx5 said:
How is the feedback of an actual photographer who makes their living taking actual photographs in the actual real world not a fact?
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It's not a fact, its hearsay, subjective opinion at best.

Tests in a controlled environment is subject to THAT test but it would be closer to fact than someone using it that you a hearing off a person on the internet.

This applies to everything, not just photography.
 
stevelmx5 said:
How is the feedback of an actual photographer who makes their living taking actual photographs in the actual real world not a fact? I understand that a graph/chart will give finite detail at all levels but surely photography isn't all about cold numbers?

Out of interest, what sort of subjects do you usually shoot? I've had a quick look and can only see one post sharing photos. Was there a reason you bought into Sony with lower DR over the Nikon?
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Looks like you quoted me before my edits:
My point is not that A7 or D600 is better camera, I am simply saying subjective opinions don't change facts about measurable like dynamic range or ISO performance. How much it affects someones photography is up to the individual to decide. Subjective opinions on the other hand is very useful for things like ergonomics and handling which can't exactly be measured.

Just because someone is an actual photographer doesn't mean whatever they say becomes actual facts!!

I shoot bunch of stuff, I have a dump here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/nandbytes/

I like EVFs A LOOOT!
 
nandbytes said:
Looks like you quoted me before my edits:
My point is not that A7 or D600 is better camera, I am simply saying subjective opinions don't change facts about measurable like dynamic range or ISO performance. How much it affects someones photography is up to the individual to decide. Subjective opinions on the other hand is very useful for things like ergonomics and handling which can't exactly be measured.

Just because someone is an actual photographer doesn't mean whatever they say becomes actual facts!!

I shoot bunch of stuff, I have a dump here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/nandbytes/

I like EVFs A LOOOT!
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Ok, we're going round in circles and getting nowhere. I value my friends' opinion because he's a very good photographer, shoots in similar environments to myself and was using an unfamiliar camera to test it out so had no reason to like it or dislike it. The fact that he feels that the output from the A7 (and handling etc) were better for him than he's seen from his D600 (which he's keeping as well anyway) means that it's genuine feedback. I'm not sure how that doesn't make it fact but there you go?

I know we're all different but I genuinely find DxO scores/charts/graphs painful and prefer real world feedback any day. My clients aren't going to ask me to show them the DR graph for their wedding pictures.
 
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