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  1. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    14,791
    Name:
    Alan
    Edit My Images:
    No
    May very well look like this...

    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/

    Anyone interested?

    I've been looking forward to this coming out but I'm hard to please...

    1. The rumour was it'd have IBIS, it hasn't got it.
    2. It's not exactly pretty is it? To me it looks like someone glued it together in a garden shed.
    3. The EVF's in the middle.
    4. No swivel screen.
    5. No built in flash.

    Not having a built in flash will probably kill it for me. I know many people see built in flash as the spawn of the Devil but personally I hate the fact that my 5D doesn't have one as I find them useful for fill and snap shots etc and I just don't think I can bring myself to drop well over £1k on a camera without one.

    Of course I could carry an external flash but that destroys the portability and would mean missing shots while it's fished out and fitted and personally I hate attention grabbing scene destroying speedlight type things.

    So, sadly I'll probably pass on this.

    Anyone getting one?
     
  2. twist

    twist

    Messages:
    10,497
    Edit My Images:
    No
    1. Big + for Sony gear incl this camera so thats a massive blow.
    2. Looks like a really poor PS.
    3. Not much of an issue
    4. Nice to have but not a dealbreaker for me.
    5. Again nice to have but not a dealbreaker.

    I also prefer to rather have the option of a built in flash than none.

    Going to be to expensive for me as a system, especially as most of the lenses are Zeiss and yawn F4.
     
  3. AndrewSt

    AndrewSt

    Messages:
    1,114
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Looks good. May be limited by lens and price though.
     
  4. LongLensPhotography

    LongLensPhotography

    Messages:
    12,175
    Name:
    Truth Teller
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    No
    The last reason not to buy a camera is the lack of popup flash. They actually do you a favour, because all on camera light does is wrecking the shots. If the light sucks, use a proper flash (bounce or use off camera) or change the composition. /rant

    Swivel screen would be nice, I agree with you.

    EVF - well that is a no go still. The only thing I would take now would be old hasselblad style 5" screen if it was fast enough. I don't think they are YET. But it is getting there, lets wait for responsive 4K EVF.

    Pretty - that's a personal opinion issue. I personally don't care because it's a tool. Just like a carpenter doesn't complain that a hammer X doesn't look as good as Y. Same thing here. If you want pure fashion just buy a Leica or paint a red dot :)

    The real odd one is no phase detect on A7r. Why on earth would they do that?

    ---

    Anyway - the real message here is the new system, new direction. You could guess A-mount is replaced with this. That is the biggest news here.
    This will be the first and perhaps flawed attempt. Look at first NEX and at first MS Surface. But they got a lot better. Even the lenses don't appeal to me yet. f/1.4 primes and 24-70/2.8 would be the first ones to release, and they put in 3.5-5.6 fail
     
  5. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    14,791
    Name:
    Alan
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Of course it doesn't have to wreck a shot. Have you never used a built in flash for a quick snap shot or even for a more serious use like fill flash? I suppose not.

    If you've got it you can choose not to use it but if you haven't got it you have to either cart a flash with you, do without or take another camera.
     
  6. Ivan S

    Ivan S

    Messages:
    701
    Name:
    Ivan
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    It's a push in the right direction I suppose, that's about all though, most will be put off by price v performance.
     
  7. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    14,791
    Name:
    Alan
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I think that the image quality will almost certainly be very good.

    I actually sold 4 DSLR lenses recently because I wasn't using them and also to free up some cash so that I didn't need to raid the piggy for one of these but I think that the lack of flash will very probably break the deal for me.

    My plan is to use a camera like this with legacy lenses.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  8. LongLensPhotography

    LongLensPhotography

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    I have used that, and proper speedlites, and pretty much regretted every time. Plus that stops random people firing flash in your eyes when you least want it.
     
  9. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    14,791
    Name:
    Alan
    Edit My Images:
    No
    This attitude never ceases to amaze me but each to his own.

    I'd much rather have it to use as and when, it's not something to fear and your manhood wont fall off if you use it. The built in flash, that is :D
     
  10. heidfirst

    heidfirst

    Messages:
    2,609
    Name:
    Scott
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    No
    because it's aimed at people who rarely shoot action & for whom accurate focus is more important than fast focus? ;)
    Maybe they can't yet make a 36MP FF sensor with on-sensor PDAF work at reasonable speeds (possibly needs a beefier processor than current Bionz)?

    Interesting rumours that in some markets they'll be running a promotion with a free Canon/Nikon or Leica adapter when you buy the body ...

    I don't expect to see A-mount going away in the short term. Long term probably but by then photographic equipment may have changed significantly with other developments.
     
  11. BacktotheFuji

    BacktotheFuji

    Messages:
    4,766
    Name:
    G
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    No
    Well I like it! Looks like it's made out of Lego, and who doesn't like Lego? Legacy glass users like me will be disappointed at the lack of stabilisation though.

    P.s. I hate flash lol
    P.p.s. I also dislike evfs but I'm not sure there's any other choice.
     
  12. pingu666

    pingu666

    Messages:
    3,571
    Name:
    paul
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    there's evf or rangefinder, or tlr possibly, or a viewfinder that's fixed like on a cheapo camera.
    that's your real options on a compact
     
  13. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    14,791
    Name:
    Alan
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I started off just saying "No" to this camera but I'm sort of warming to it. The rumour is that a more upmaket FF Nex 7 style camera or even cameras with IBIS and lots of other goodies will be along in the new year so I'll almost certainly wait to see what comes.

    I have (I hope) a trip to the far east coming up next year and I'd like to take something better than my G1 but not as bulky as my 5D so ideally I'd like to buy in time to get to know the camera before going.
     
  14. Tobers

    Tobers

    Messages:
    2,930
    Name:
    Andy
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    I have a Sony RX1 which is simply phenomenal. A good amount of its image quality comes from the dedicated, fixed Zeiss f/2 lens which is outstanding. Whether the same image quality can be had from Sony's interchangeable lenses (though Zeiss made) needs to be seen.

    I reckon Sony is carving out a good niche in the full frame compact class. There's not a lot out there. The price is the key thing though. You've got to be a bit dedicated (crazy) to shell out for an RX1, but it's way cheaper than the Leica equivalent, which I think is their target market.

    I can't help thinking though that the smallness of the camera becomes compromised once you stick large interchangable lenses on the front of it. It becomes much less "pocketable". The RX1 is small but the lens sticks out a fair way as it is, though it will go in a jacket pocket. Therefore the compact advantage drops away somewhat with a 24-70 on it such that you might as well use a full frame DSLR.

    Anyway, not long to the official announcement so it'll be interesting to see if the pics are correct.
     
  15. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    14,791
    Name:
    Alan
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I expect it to at the very least be a match for my 5Dc although I'll be surprised if any improvement jumps out at me during normal viewing of images on screen or in prints up to A3.

    The improvement for me is in size and portability and therefore it'll probably be better to perhaps compare the camera to my G1 and I'll be amazed if improvement isn't visible from ISO 400 and upwards upon reasonably close inspection (the G1 is IMVHO quite excellent at ISO 100-400 for quite close viewing.)

    I realise that the lens is a big part of the performance of the RX1 but I'm hoping that my manual Rokkor's will at least give good enough performance on a FF CSX to stand up to reasonably close viewing. I suppose that the areas away from the centre are the worry.
     
  16. Willo

    Willo

    Messages:
    634
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    Yes
    I expect the sesor to be equal or better than the D600 and D800 seeing as Sony supply Nikon with their sensors. The rumour is that the EVF is the same as found in the E-M1 which has been getting rave reviews. I'm very interested in the A7, I've just sold my D600 as I want something smaller and lighter (also because of the oil/dust fiasco).

    Tempted to go back to m4/3 but I want to see how this pans out first, would maily be using Voigtlander lenses until Sony can bulk up there lens offering.
     
  17. Musicman

    Musicman

    Messages:
    6,655
    Name:
    Rob Telford
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    No
    ISTR Sony have said before that, while they've been able to do it on their A-mount DSLTs, the problem with IBIS in a compact body (in relation to APS E-mount) was getting rid of the extra heat it generates - and it will also introduce noise.

    There's also the question of whether there's enough physical space left in the FE mount to allow the sensor to move sufficiently far for IBIS. It'll be tight fitting a full frame sensor in there as it is.

    That said, I'm definitely keeping my eye on these cameras, though I may be weighing one up against a Fuji X-mount body (XE-2 rumoured within a few days too) with Metabones Speed Booster for legacy lenses.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  18. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    14,791
    Name:
    Alan
    Edit My Images:
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    Personally I think we're probably at the point now that for the majority of even keen amateurs the actual image quality differences between the best MFT, APS-C and FF cameras are negligible at all but the extremes of ISO, image size and pixel peeping and now replaced by other considerations. For example the reason I went for a 5D was to use my (since sold) Sigma 12-24mm and 85mm f1.4 on FF so the decision was valid for me for reasons other than just the cameras image quality.

    My reason for looking at a FF CSC include bulk saving over a conventional DSLR, the inherent advantages (IMVHO) of EVF technology (magnified view, in view histogram etc) and the different FoV and therefore use of my Rokkor lenses over their use on a smaller format.

    My Zuiko 28 and 135mm lenses actually perform very well on my 5D so I'm hoping that my Rokkors perform as well on a FF CSC.
     
  19. Thrash

    Thrash

    Messages:
    597
    Name:
    Ollie
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    No
    It looks OK, kinda like theyve tried to do the OM-D/Fuji style looks but failed (i.e. put a Sony twist on it so it still looks futuristic and modern with retro looks but yeah it hasnt worked IMO). Shouldve stayed away from the viewfinder hump, really not doing it for me.
    No in-built flash, articulated (touch?) screen and IBIS arent really deal-breakers for me but would all be nice to have, obviously. I dont think im the target audience though ;) If I had the money to buy one I wouldnt be buying one put it that way :)
     
  20. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    14,791
    Name:
    Alan
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    No
    The thing that occurs to me though is that these things are becoming almost standard. If one's missing I'd raise an eye brow but for pretty much every bell and whistle you can name to be missing starts to look a little... lazy? and raises the issue of just not bothering and waiting for Sony or someone else to try harder.
     
  21. Alastair

    Alastair

    Messages:
    10,277
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Lack of built-in flash isn't a problem, inclusion of the proprietary Sony hot shoe could be..

    The spec list is tempting, but could it persuade me to abandon Canon and sell-up my investment in that system rather than go FF with Canon? the price would have to be exceptionally keen for folk already invested in Canon/Nikon to do so.

    On the plus side, it stands to be the most compatible full-frame system for users of vintage lenses (like me). It's certainly going to have me totting up what I could get for my Canon system, just to see if it's worth a change.
     
  22. abdoujaparov

    abdoujaparov

    Messages:
    1,745
    Name:
    Keith
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I think the on-camera flash on my x100 does quite a lovely job of filling in. Is this "wrecked"?

    [​IMG]
    DSCF1845 by Arfonfab, on Flickr
     
    border_all likes this.
  23. Thrash

    Thrash

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    597
    Name:
    Ollie
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    No I do completely agree, I do wonder what goes through these companies minds sometimes. I thought articulating screens would be standard with Sony now but obviously not!
     
  24. Cagey75

    Cagey75

    Messages:
    5,398
    Name:
    Keith
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    No
    The X100/s works so well with flash though. Syncs at any speed, and it has that built in ND filter to compliment, for outdoor use.
     
  25. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    14,791
    Name:
    Alan
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    No
    It's not the only camera that fill flash works well with.

    As I keep saying... I just don't understand the view that a built in flash is evil and can never do anything but ruin a shot. I don't use mine a lot but certainly I've used it on every SLR/DSLR/MFT camera I've ever owned and if I had the choice I'd always choose to have a camera with it and have it available rather than just not have it at all...

    And then there's the snap shot scenario and when you just want a picture for a forum or as a record shot. If you haven't got it on your camera you have to reach for your compact or phone.
     
  26. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    14,791
    Name:
    Alan
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    No
    I have a 5D and I wouldn't care if a FF CSC only matched it rather than beat it as the 5D is good enough for me. What interests me is the same or better image quality from a much smaller and lighter camera with the addition of EVF WYSIWYG and histogram. Those things are what tempt me away from conventional DSLR's.

    My only real concern is the performance of the EVF in low light.
     
  27. simonblue

    simonblue

    Messages:
    9,528
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    No
    Dont mine no flash,not to bother about the looks,just how well its going to perform :)
     
  28. Cagey75

    Cagey75

    Messages:
    5,398
    Name:
    Keith
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    No
    I realise that, just responding on that one as it was mentioned, and I got one too ;)

    The ability to shoot at f/2, in daylight and sync at high speeds even with onboard flash is great! I think onboard flash definitely has it's uses.
     
  29. Alan Clogwyn

    Alan Clogwyn

    Messages:
    6,830
    Name:
    Richard Alan Jones
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    Yes
    I think it looks rather cool, certainly has an old school SLR look to it. Not sure I'd want to fork out a grand for one, in a few years time though I'll no doubt own one!
     
  30. northernbiff

    northernbiff

    Messages:
    358
    Name:
    Biff
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  31. Musicman

    Musicman

    Messages:
    6,655
    Name:
    Rob Telford
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    No
    Reminds me a bit of the earlier versions of the Rollei SL35
     
  32. Moreorless

    Moreorless

    Messages:
    912
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    No
    The camera looks a bit thrown together(I get the impression this is rather a quick decision post RX1) but I'm guessing it'll perform pretty well, for me the lenses look like there whats going to hold it back.

    Even by kit zoom standards a 28-70mm 3.5-5.6 is very modest specs wise while the prime lenses both seem insanely expensive, 800 euro for a 35mm f/2.8 and 1100 euro for a 55mm 1.8? I notice the later and the kit zoom arent even very small which doesn't bode well for balancing the system with quality optics.

    I'm really not liking Sony's mirrorless tactics of pricing every decent lense at a big premium. Their FF DSLR system might be lacking in some mid level lenses but at least when you pay a premium price you get a premium spec lens, the Zeiss 2.8 zooms, 85mm 1.4, 135mm 1.8 etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
  33. simonblue

    simonblue

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    9,528
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    I read someone said the look & feel were like the Pentax LX,other than that i will wait for the reviews.
    But the price is looking high,and i would like to not to high priced, for a good fast zoom in the 24-70mm range :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
  34. LongLensPhotography

    LongLensPhotography

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    Ouch... it looks like they are specifically competing with leica by undercutting their prices just a little bit. I am not sure if that is good enough without the game changing red dot :LOL:
     
  35. Micehorns

    Micehorns

    Messages:
    477
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  36. twist

    twist

    Messages:
    10,497
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
  37. Cagey75

    Cagey75

    Messages:
    5,398
    Name:
    Keith
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    No
    Yeah, I just don't get that one. For the money you could get a used full frame dslr and a few lenses.
     
  38. arad85

    arad85

    Messages:
    9,495
    Name:
    Andy
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    Yes
    Size........
     
  39. Willo

    Willo

    Messages:
    634
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    Yes
    Primary reason I sold my D600.

    Prices are up at WEX, £1300 for A7 body and £1700 for A7R. Not bad, going to wait for some reviews.
     
  40. twist

    twist

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    10,497
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    Got to wait and see how much the lenses cost.
     

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