The best cheap 90's 00's 35mm SLRs?

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Hi All,

Seems from looking on eBay etc that the 90's and 00's film SLRs are as cheap as they are likely to get whilst there predecessors seem to be climbing in value. What were the gems amongst the champagne plastic?

Do you have any great recommendations from cheap/low cost (less than £50?) second hand film SLRs worth picking up to explore a little with film with minimal outlay?

Cheers,
 
if you've already got some modern EF lenses, then pick up a Canon EOS 30V body for around £40 beer tokens...

EOS-30 with Flash Up by The Big Yin, on Flickr

they're really quite decent cameras... and, being pretty much the last film ones made, are likely to have fewer electrical gremlins.

eta: if you go for the 30 (like mine above) rather than 30V it'll be 5 years older maybe - launched in 2000 not 2005 fr the 30V - then you'll definitely get body-only for under £50 - of course that's NBG if you've not got lenses, i'm simply putting something forward for IF you were a Canon shooter with existing EF lenses.

screenshot-www.ebay.co.uk 2017-03-12 21-10-22.png
 
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How much of an automatic experience are you looking for? Auto exposure? Autofocus? And which digital kit do you have - it's possible your lenses might be compatible with film SLRs, in which case £50 could get you quite a lot.
 
F65 will be peanuts, F80 will be chocolate covered ones and an F100 might even be a couple of Revels!
 
thanks for such a great response!
@TheBigYin - my eBay search brings up £150+ but perhaps thats because there are only a few available at present

@abdoujaparov - as long as manual options are available i'm happy, auto focus would be nice BUT i have been looking at some old manual Russian lenses- Helios, Zenitar etc
I have a Nikon d3200 with the 35mm f1.8 which I understand is a DX lens so not compatible with 35mm? (+ the kit lens 18-55mm but since I got the prime it hasn't been off the camera!)

@Nod - indeed F65, F75, F80 and F100 all very affordable

Also seeing the Minolta's go for little money, any worth a look as the prime 50mm's go cheaply too?
 
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If you want manual focus, I'd always recommend OM1/2 with a 50/1.8. If you keep an eye out on EBay/gumtree you can usually find one for £40-£60. If you want AF, I'd go along with TBY above with the Eos 30. I've had 3 now and they're an excellent all round SLR that's basically an Eos40D without the digital sensor and with added Eye Control (that works surprisingly well). Again, I've seen them go on EBay/Gumtree for <£60 if you wait for one to come along.
 
Given that you're a Nikon user, it would make more sense IMO to go for a Nikon film body. Even though you can't use your current lenses because they are crop only, any lenses you buy for your Nikon film body may well be useable on your digital body, albeit with manual focus.
 
If you want manual focus, I'd always recommend OM1/2 with a 50/1.8. If you keep an eye out on EBay/gumtree you can usually find one for £40-£60. If you want AF, I'd go along with TBY above with the Eos 30. I've had 3 now and they're an excellent all round SLR that's basically an Eos40D without the digital sensor and with added Eye Control (that works surprisingly well). Again, I've seen them go on EBay/Gumtree for <£60 if you wait for one to come along.

In fact, there's a Canon body for £35

https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/...p_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=ios_social

Collection only but if you're near it's a bargain. Add a Canon nifty 50 (50/1.8) and you've got an excellent portrait setup. The eye AF even tracks people running towards you at full speed..

IMG_1489350131.486389.jpg
 
You could get a Zenit and a Helios and have change from £20, so that's definitely an option if you don't mind all-manual.

My choice would probably be a Pentax ME Super with the 50mm lens, which you should be able to get for under £50 on the 'bay. Small body, huge viewfinder, aperture-priority auto exposure. I love mine.
 
@TheBigYin - thanks for your link, just taking a look
@maarten.dhaese - yes hadn't considered swapping that way round!
@stevelmx5 thanks will investigate the OM1/2's, good to hear your positive experience of EOS 30
@abdoujaparov - I have seen a few Zenit's available even "new" ones in factory boxes for £80, seem to be a few reports of poor QC - but I guess if I can find one cheap enough the camera is almost free with the lens!

Thanks again everyone
 
Ken Rockell has a good page on Nikon lens compatibility on digital bodies:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/compatibility-lens.htm

It looks like metering might be unavailable for older lenses on a D3200.

Auto-focus too - I have a D3200 and it doesn't have an in-body focus motor, so you're stuck with AF-S lenses unless you're happy manually focussing (which is not easy on the D3200 as the electronic rangefinder simply consists of a green dot that flashes in the display when focus is reached, which is hopeless if you're hand-holding the camera and need to be precise).

You can use modern, DX lenses on more recent Nikon film SLRs, but you'll get vignetting as they're designed to resolve on an APS-C sensor and, as they are all gelded lenses with no aperture ring, you're stuck using Program or Shutter Priority modes.
 
The Minolta 600si is quite good on a £/performance ratio, or the 700si if you don't mind the hold this button and turn this dial approach to settings. The Dynax 5 can be had for next to nothing and is capable of auto focusing SSM Sony A mount lenses, and wireless HSS flash (triggered using pop up flash), but has a rather rubbish x-sync of 1/125.

Keep a look out for camera bodies badly listed with a decent lens mounted. I got a Minolta 700si with 28-75 f/2.8 for £16 because it was just listed as a 700si with "lens". Looking at the pictures closely I could see this was one worth bidding on, and only got it for the lens really.
 
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Alternatively you can pick up an EOS 300 film body around the £10 mark.

One of the best bargains out there and got my 300 body for £1 at the bootie and was lucky to pick up a AF lens 35-80 lens for about £2 at another time......it's a camera that seems to do everything, but only put one roll of film in to check it all out so there must be something it can't do.....and can't remember if I tried it with the EF to M42 adapter that I have, but my guess would be it would meter and work.
 
You can use modern, DX lenses on more recent Nikon film SLRs, but you'll get vignetting as they're designed to resolve on an APS-C sensor and, as they are all gelded lenses with no aperture ring, you're stuck using Program or Shutter Priority modes.
The later (F80 / F100 era) Nikon film cameras can control the aperture on all but the very latest E lenses.
 
Regarding the suggestion for OM1 & OM2's they are lovely cameras but anyone buying one needs to be aware of the mercury battery issue for the meter with the OM1 & the problem for both with the foam seals rotting & ruining the silvering on the prism leaving you with black spots in the viewfinder. I have sent mine away to have the foam removed before it caused problems but a CLA to do this runs to £60. Might be a cost of add to the budget it you are thinking of the OM route?

A heap as chips manual focus Nikon is the F301. Paid £15 for mine on ebay. Only thing that I would say against the F65 & F80 is watch out for the sticky back problem. Both of mine have not got sticky. The F80 is a lot of camera for the money.
 
Only thing that I would say against the F65 & F80 is watch out for the sticky back problem. Both of mine have not got sticky. The F80 is a lot of camera for the money.

The sticky back is pretty easy to fix. I got an F70 recently that had the issue, but I cleaned it with some isopropyl alcohol (slightly diluted), and it came up a treat. The back is now just smooth plastic with all the tackiness gone.
 
Regarding the suggestion for OM1 & OM2's they are lovely cameras but anyone buying one needs to be aware of the mercury battery issue for the meter with the OM1 & the problem for both with the foam seals rotting & ruining the silvering on the prism leaving you with black spots in the viewfinder. I have sent mine away to have the foam removed before it caused problems but a CLA to do this runs to £60. Might be a cost of add to the budget it you are thinking of the OM route?

A heap as chips manual focus Nikon is the F301. Paid £15 for mine on ebay. Only thing that I would say against the F65 & F80 is watch out for the sticky back problem. Both of mine have not got sticky. The F80 is a lot of camera for the money.
The F80 is indeed a lot of camera for the money, arguably the best value of them all. It's also very easy to switch to for anyone raised on a dSLR, or in possession of modern Nikon lenses. It even has VR functionality with suitable lenses so is effectively able to maximise the benefit of any modern Nikon lens, in a film context. And you can get one for about £25 (I bought my mint boxed one for £30). The F100 is a nicer machine but it is bulkier and typically costs £100+.
 
Regarding the suggestion for OM1 & OM2's they are lovely cameras but anyone buying one needs to be aware of the mercury battery issue for the meter with the OM1 & the problem for both with the foam seals rotting & ruining the silvering on the prism leaving you with black spots in the viewfinder. I have sent mine away to have the foam removed before it caused problems but a CLA to do this runs to £60. Might be a cost of add to the budget it you are thinking of the OM route?
The later OM cameras don't have this battery problem. I had no problems getting batteries for my OM20.

If this is your first film camera, I'd definitely vote for getting a camera with the same mount as your DSLR. It makes sense as you can share lenses, especially as you upgrade your AF lenses. Get a newer Nikon film body, one with AF and some programme modes, which is handy when you start out as it means you're less likely to waste film on badly exposed shots.
I have a Canon EOS 100 which is great to use with my autofocus lenses for those days when I can't be bothered with manual focus or manual exposure.
 
The Nikon F90 is pretty much the best value for money Nikon film camera on the second hand market atm in my opinion.

Lots of functionality and will give you all the manual control or automation you need.
 
The Nikon F90 is pretty much the best value for money Nikon film camera on the second hand market atm in my opinion.

Lots of functionality and will give you all the manual control or automation you need.
The F90 is limited (aperture can't be selected in M and A modes) if you want to use 'G' lenses iirc. The F80 and F100 allow full use of modern G lenses.
 
Nikon F80, lot of camera for the money. Almost identical to use to a digital nikon body aside from the obvious. Uses all modern lenses IIRC and great to use, should be able to get one for £30 and a great one for a few quid more.
 
The Nikon F90 is pretty much the best value for money Nikon film camera on the second hand market atm in my opinion.

Lots of functionality and will give you all the manual control or automation you need.

...esp at bootie prices ;) got my F90x with a 50mm non AI lens as body stop (h'mm not suppose to use em) for £10......anyway used it a few times even recently when I forgot how to use it properly (erm must carry a manual around with me o_O)
 
The F90 is limited (aperture can't be selected in M and A modes) if you want to use 'G' lenses iirc. The F80 and F100 allow full use of modern G lenses.
Ah, I understand the preference for the F80 now. I only have one g-lens and that only gets used on the digital camera.
 
Regarding the suggestion for OM1 & OM2's they are lovely cameras but anyone buying one needs to be aware of the mercury battery issue for the meter with the OM1 & the problem for both with the foam seals rotting & ruining the silvering on the prism leaving you with black spots in the viewfinder. I have sent mine away to have the foam removed before it caused problems but a CLA to do this runs to £60. Might be a cost of add to the budget it you are thinking of the OM route?
The battery issue is not an issue as you are centering the meter needle and at this point no current is flowing through the meter - if there is no current it does not matter what voltage is producing the zero current. My OM1 works fine - meters properly - with alkaline batteries.

The foam seal thing is more of an issue - an unserviced camera from the 1970s is always going to need the seals replacing. This is actually an easy DIY job but is worth paying for if you are faint-hearted.
 
Regarding the suggestion for OM1 & OM2's they are lovely cameras but anyone buying one needs to be aware of the mercury battery issue for the meter with the OM1 & the problem for both with the foam seals rotting & ruining the silvering on the prism leaving you with black spots in the viewfinder. I have sent mine away to have the foam removed before it caused problems but a CLA to do this runs to £60. Might be a cost of add to the budget it you are thinking of the OM route?

A heap as chips manual focus Nikon is the F301. Paid £15 for mine on ebay. Only thing that I would say against the F65 & F80 is watch out for the sticky back problem. Both of mine have not got sticky. The F80 is a lot of camera for the money.
It's not too difficult to remove all the foam from an OM1's viewfinder area yourself. You can replace the rotted prism with one from a dud OM10, which I don't think have any foam around the prism to rot the silvering. I replaced the prism om my OM1 after scraping away all the gooey foam from the prism area.

I agree that the Nikon F301 is great value for a basic SLR. As long as you don't mind the noise from the permanent power winder, it'll do most things that you need.
 
I have D3200. Manual focus lenses only work on full manual exposure ode, and you dont get exposure meterig. You have to eter with another lens, use hand held or f16-sunny.
Most digital lenses are DX, and only offer coverage over 1/2 the frame area on a full-frame camera, with extreme corner vignettg and distortion.
Other way around, using FF legacy lenses on DX Digital brings issue above.
To all xtents and puposes, trying to get any inter-compatability twixt the two is a bit of a mire; early Nikon MF lenses for instance, wont couple, and you do have issue with potential contact damage.
I use, legacy lenses, mostly M42 via adapter on the electric picture maker, and a couple or T2 remounts... BUT for th most part I tend to keep lenses native to the camera they belong to.
I still have fairly extesive Olympus OM outfit that was front line SLR until I got the EPM, as well as my Sigma MK1 all metal, all manual M42 outfit... ls a Zenit, a Zies ikonta 120 folder, and a few others.

M42.... great system, I got into it i the early 90's when the Sigma fell out of some-ones attic. atthe time M42 lenses were doubly cheap as chips, and primes even more so. I used to pick up lucky boxes for £5 when went to get film, and see what I culd make work! These days MFT brigade have given them something of a cult status and prices are a lot less 'chap'... BUT still some great lenses out there for very very lttle money; eg, my front line lenses are a Pentacon 29, and a Ziess Jena 50. The ziess is loverly, and you can still pick them up for well under £50, often wth a camera attatched. AND you know you can flog on anything M42 as easily as you bought it. I do use the M42 lenses on the EPM, on infinity corrected adaptor. Not as first course, it is a faff, and if I want to faff, I will shoot them on the Sigma, with film, they are native to. As a system, It stands a long hard look, and old Zeniths and Practkas that take them are virtually worthless these days. A genuine Pentax, shouldn't break the bank too much ether; with many Richoc and richoch copies like teh Sigma ot there, that with a little research can be absolute steals....

Olympus OM.... I shot this system exztensively through the 90's. I still have an OM10, whch is a loverly bt of kit for the money. I used to pick them up for about £5 a time, and abuse them mercilessly! I eventually stepped up to an OM4, which is even more wonderful... BUT for a small prpensity to EAT batteries faster than t will shoot film! Single dgit OM1's & 2's were the pro-am grade bodies of their day, more durable, and more highly valued they are probably the better buy still reletvely 'cheap' for what you get, but the 10's are still to my mind a heck of a lot of camera for your money. Bayonette mount, the bodie AND lenses can, start to get a little wobbly... one rason the M42's are so good.... brick out-house like constuctin.. well, excluding practikas! Most enses are zooms, and the MFT boys seem t have kept prices high, on the primes, which apart from the 50's tend to be rarr and especially at the wide end, still over priced. But, as a stsyem, it does offer a far amount of VFM, and the 10, lacking the prtensions the single digt OM's got can be a cracking camera.... I actually preffer it n many ways to the 4, and ot just because I dont have to swap batteries before firng the shutter! As a cheap way into flm and manual focus, t is STILL avery god cheap way into the game.

Other systems.... Pentax 'K' mount, for example, share much with the Olympus, and M42, in astonding array ofgenune and copy kit arond, and prices that vary from how 'cheap' to how MUCH!!!! If you do your homework, it could be as good a way into t as anything.

Nikon 'legacy' that they haven't changed the F-Mount sice umety jckety two is a bt mute, as far as I am concerned; was a prompt in my choice t by Nikon when I got the EPM, but I had also been lookig t swap t the F-Mount system for some years... it was just too expensive to justfy! And conclusion ow is that that legacy F-Mont ompatabilit IS a bit of a doble edged sword.... BUT, if you are prepared to pay that bt extra, again, ther's still a lot of very good lenses out there for sensble money, and plenty of crackng cameras that needn't break the bank, and will hold value and sell on readily. I WOLD avod the later AF examples though, motor in body they weren't as fast as the cannons, they were expensve, and the lower speced versions usually took obscure non rechargeable batteries that are now unobtanum or horendousely expensive. Some used rechargeable AA's, which would be a uch better bet, but.... personally, these cameras are a bit neither nor to me; they aren't a full sensation 'manual' camera, nor a fully automatc electric-picture-maker. They are cheap, but f you spend more on film and batteries, possbly not! And that nggle goes for a lot of 90's and 00's AF offerngs, of whch BIG cauton has to be offered over any of the APS format ones that prceeded the DX dgtals. Cartridge flm for them is ow pretty much obsolete, and yu dont get that full-framiness from them ether. Most often sold for the leses tat may be compatble with some mor modern digtal SLR's.

You THEN have the small matter tha a film camera is lttle ore than a light tght box to keep the film in. Lens on the font ad film in the back were the ket thngs to pctures, after operator. All of them are now quarter century plus old, which is best or best value will very much depend not on the make or model or specification when new, but how ts been looked after since..... conditon s all.....

AND, if you want a real steel? I have to say, looking at 35mm and certanly 35mm SLR is somethig of a blind alley. They were, significantly over specified and over priced ad over rated when they were new... bggest advantage of 35mm was the 'compact' film format, wihch allowed a very small camera. Sticking a pentaprism on the top, and a large mirror housng often rendered that plus somewhat mute, for little gain other than Through-The-Lens focus and compositon..... many vanted view-finder and rage finders, that could explot the 'compact' format, and could ofte have better 'true focal length' lenses.

In the 35mm arena, there are lots and lots of bargais out there, by way of things like the Minox 35, which is as small as my Olympus XA2's, with a pop out true focual length 35mm lens. My father bought one of these, around 1992, and it cost hm then, as much as my D3200 did quarter century later. Fantastc bit of kit, so often pased over thse days smply because its NOT an SLR and doesn't have iterchangeable lenes. BUT amazing quality camera, and NOT a 'cheap' compact. That, like many non SLR 35mm's was a pretty expensive enthusiast camera in its day, around £500's worth n 1990, you ca pick up now for maybe £50. Better value, is the XA2, which I have had since 1980, it too was as expensive the shop as an entry level OM10. Suffers slightly havng an 'equated' 35mm lns, to keep the body copact, and save 'pop ot' or bellows, and hidden under clamshell cover, it was a camera that set a ew standard in ts day for pocketability as well as qualty. You can pick these up for under £25 these days, in very good conditon. The Rolie of course remains the kiddie and has assocated prce, but agan, you dont have to break the bank to get even one of them. Abslte bargan basement, I have a very nie Konica C35, which like the minox has a fast ad genune focal length 35m les, and a semi-auto exposure system that made t a favourite n ts day as both an enthsasts camera Dad could get a bit pretentouse with, but could hand wide and kds to use as a pot and shoot. These can be picked up for like a FIVER now, smply ecause they dot have the name, or a pentaprism... So outside the SLR world there is a HUGE arena to find very very good cameras for real bargain prices, that n many cases ar as good or better than SLR's.

Following that train of logic, and shelving ideas you 'might' be able to share lenses with Electric-Picture-Maker... and whether you can 'live' hapily with a fixed lens (and suggestion you have had 35mm prime permenantly attatched to D3200, sggests you probably can), then you have the whole world of Medium format to look at, where, again, fixed lens folders or reflex box cameras, NOT being the high end 'system' cameras like a Bronica or Mamiya or 'blad, are again hugely under rated the market, and things like my Zies Ikonta folder, with 105mm ziess lens are INCREDIBLE value.. that one, folded slips n a coat pocket more easily than an OM10, eve an OM broken down withut lens! Yet delvers that medium fomat loverliness in that HUGE negatve, you can only dream of even with 'good' 35mm... £25?!?!?!?! that' ridiculous! Whlst lacking through the lens viewfinder.... actually lacking much by way of a veiefnder! Wholey manual, maual focus, and by scale! You DO get that full 'antique'nolvement of havig to think about what you are dog, the camera dong nothing for you. YET, t actually doesn't have to be all that much faff, and after wavig had held light meter abot a bit, and realising you still have to use 'judgement' t does actually distill everything down, and you stop frettig about buttons and settngs and just get on with the job. And it's an aena that puts off so many, and where folk prepared for it, so often want the more elevated system cameras, and 'pro' gear there are just SO many really really good cameras about for absolute penneis.

In your shoes... I would ot be looking for specific camera recomends...... nor tryg to stick to a budget.

First off, I would be weighing up, the merits of 35mm vs medum format. And consdering thngs like home developg, and whether I was going to print or scan. Scanning is convenient. But most affordable scanners are for the 35mm format. You can do MF on a flatbed, or an a adaptor, but they are rare and more expnsive. 35mm scores here on the convenience and cost bt you aren't gettig that hge leap i format size MF offers. If you are planning to home print? yo can develop both 35mm and MF with minimal equpment in the kitchen. Basically a dev tank ad spiral. MF just takes more chemicals, BUT you can 'contact prnt' and get decent viewable size prints, without an enlarger. 35mm is so small you will want t enlarge to pit, or scan to a viewable size. Begging an eglarger, and some sort of dark-room even a temperary bathroom set up.... aga, need ot be partcularly expensive, but probably a lot more and a lot more to consder than the camera.

Overall, 35m probably wns on cost vs convenience, especially if you dont home process, and use comercal labs; which for 35m at the cheap end can ve prtty cheap. MF will tend to be a bt eyewaterig, BUT yo keep costs i check by rmembering ts flm, you pay per frame, and so think twce, and ask whether what you are looking at IS worth a exposure.... so you will likely take fewer photo's and get mre keeprs from them.

Then, its on to that choice between viw-finders and range finders vs system SLR's.... where if bang for your buck is that crucial, you are probably best of dismissing system SLR's altogether, and looking very hard and dong plenty of research on any sub £25 e-bay offering of a 35mm compact, to cherry pick those enthusiast offerigs over over non enthusiast, over the counter P&S..

AND ultimately, it will only be the 'start' of an adventure in film, and if you find enthusiasm for it, follow o wll be 'what NEXT film camera'....

My advice? Here and now, if you pressed me to offer just one camera? I cant do it... REALLY cant do it! Given you have taken to the 35mm prime on the EPM, though, would have t recomend a non SLR, ad or toe in the water exercise, that Konica C35, for as little as a roll of film? Has to be hard to beat. XA2 is gaining a fan base again, its much more P&S, but again, a lot of camera for £20 or so, and then you have older stuff, like y GRandad's old Kodak retnette, that agan has fixed lens, but a good one, s fully manual, and handles a lot more like an SLR withot being a SLR, and can be picked up for Zenit or Practika sort of money, in teh £20 region. Personally that would have me looking at old folders and reflex's of the medum format veriety, and 'wondering'... but sticking to 35mm for likely convenience of gettig film, gettg it processed and scanned ond or prited..... those non SLR35's would be where I looked, and given huge umber on offer, would look at adds, then research candidated for orignal spec, owners reviews and buy on condition.

I would NOT recomend a 'cheap' slr like a zenit.... thogh I do have one.... they were always cheap, and always wll be, and they do have quirly handling; Practca's, eve cheaper, they dot have the brick outhouse build of the Zenits, and even more quirky handling. And having interchageable lenses wll likely take you into that gadget aquesition sysndrome, where findng good lenses you are likely NOT to be doing t all for penny pocket money! OM10? As toe in the water, for £25-50? Yeah, maybe.... t s still a lot of camera for your cash, lens choice s pretty good, though ostly zooms, and yu might avoid the GAS problem more easily. If you have to have a system SLR n 35mm format, it is probaby the one I would recommend with fewest qualms.

But, if you want to explore, then you will start to hanker for the higher spec cameras. and at some point be faced with the system shift dilemah, to which there's no good answer, other than bite the bullet ad pay the money, and MF will rear its ugly head again to get the 'real deal' from it.

But, as toe the water, price of a petrol station disposeable... ONE name.... Konica C35....here's a few on e-bay right now; I'd avod the later ones with integrap flashe's, but earlier ones, like mine, even at dealer prces aren't commandig much more than £30, while there's a rather ice, high spec range-rinder eddition up at the moment for barely a tenner, another for £15, and even a dealer one for under £40. Non range-rinder verions, which are likely little handicap, privately? I have seen for as little as £5! Remember condition is all, and those prces are for a mid-market 'enthusiast' camera of the early 70's, not a P&S comact of the 80's, with lens, and a true focal length one, with pretty impressive f2.8 aperture.. It s something I would use as a bench-mark... and err... well, mine wa my Grandad's, so has added sentimental value, BUT, one I wouldn't object to paying money for. (And I have seldom paid money for a film camera, so that is some accolade!)

Olympus XA2's..... err... yeah... STILL love mine... and it probably is still my most used film camera.. I probably would buy anther... again checkng e-bay, prices start from a ludicrous quid, and go up to silly money for the rarer more collectible versions; BUT a tenner gets you a good working example, probably with flash and presentation case. And somethig that is still very very useable, if not quite so involved, but definitely a bit of photographic history. As said, over the years an XA2 has probably been my most used camera, and of the flm camera's still IS.. small irny when I bought the D3200 EPM, to replace yet another extinct dig-compact, the XA2 found its way into my pocket agan, and njoyed a bt of a renaisace dong what it has always done best.... just be there, when photo-op arses, and not beg lots of faff to grab it!

They are well recomended. I have three.... so I probably wouldn't need to buy another.... the orignal 'range-rinder' XA on the other hand has tempted me a few times, this is a manual focus camera, rather than smpler zone focus model, and has a slightly more complicated lens ad focus system.... these have never been 'chap' and rarely a bargain, they still command around £100 for a good example... and as such s not a bargain, but why the Konica range finder editions are such good value for probably a better, f slightly less compact camera with the same degree of user involvement, and a true focal length lens rather than an equated compound one. You do have to be a it clued up about XA's though as the plain XA s a range fnder and as said expensive, ad SN'T an XA1 which was a cut-price selenium cell version of the XA2, ad no where near as useful or freindly t use, or as valuable as they try and make them in the adds. XA3's and XA4's were derivatves of the orignal XA2, and OTMH I thik the XA4 had a 28m wide angle lens rather than 35mm 'standard' and XA3 a closer close focus and DX flm speed codng, or somethig like that, but other tha special body colours, they were pretty much XA2's, that remans teh classic. Later Mju's, packed eve more automation, with motor film advance, and inbult flas, and the last of them even offered rather dodgy 'zoom' lenses. We had about three of the orignal Mju's in the family whe they were new, bougt mostly for lades, as they were easy to use P&, that sld on the legacy of the XA2... but personally? dont rate the. They were a very much bult down to a prce consumer conpact, packed with unnecessary fatures, and rather fragle. My ex did have one of the last 'zoom' edditions, and franklyit wasn't worth the film t took! Horrible horrble camera.

BUT I mention thse only as coparison to the Konca.... the XA2 is a cult camera, there are more than a few XA2 users and exponents on here, and for £10-£15 or £20 they are a lot of camera for your cash; but the Konica, has to reman my top choice and bench mark. While NON SLR cameras wold reman favurite for VFM and useablity.

IF you have to go system SLR, then for the cost of an OM10 compared to a Zenth or Practca, again, for geune pocket money prices that would have to be my top suggestion.....

I would nightmare at the last AF SLR's, and the myriad of cameras with ever more automation, potentially obsolete lens systems, and battery issues. I would NOT buy a APS example, been though they are incredibly cheap; unless it had a very very interestng/valuable lens on it I could make use of on a DSLR, but most wont. Of 35mm offerings I would be dong lots of research on what was on offer, to check I COULD actually use it now, as is, and not have to modfy t to get roud battery issues etc. AND sangune, that what I was buyg really wasn't much different to a slow Electrc-Picture-Maker I had to buy film for! So n matter how 'cheap', for what t dd, I may as well save my money ad shoot the EPM!

Which WOULD bring me back to the notion that one of those old manual focus, manual EVERYTHING 120 folders or Twin-Lens-Reflex's, for that real difference in the experience, and reslts, probably WAS worth the inconvenience.... o the principle that that 'incovenience' is actually a heck of a lot of the 'experience' and learning and joy of old flm cameras... ad they offer that huge dfference ad deliver the sort of results on they can for it... and can be just as 'cheap'.

Bottom lin is thatthe variables are SO huge, you ave to do your home-work; whats on offer, take yur choice ad pay your money... but aproah with an open mind; dont dismiss non SLR's, ad ponder just how you will likely use, and what you are really hoping for.... as an 'investment'?!?! forget it. You lmost certaily wont make money buying something that's cheap now, that will be worth a fortune in 10 years time! AND n all likelihood all the expeiment will do is find new and imaginative ways for you to waste your money..... so set a dget, and milk the amount of 'fun' you ca from it.
 
The F80 was a replacement for the F70; the F100 replaced the F90x.

The F80 became the D100 as well as the Fuji FinePix S2 and S3.

Well my point was the f90\f90x wasn't an upgrade for the f80 (you'd think higher the no would be an upgrade) but just another model, yet the f100 was an upgrade for the F90\f90x.........Canon were worse with their EOS's
 
Well my point was the f90\f90x wasn't an upgrade for the f80 (you'd think higher the no would be an upgrade) but just another model, yet the f100 was an upgrade for the F90\f90x.........Canon were worse with their EOS's
Sounds like we're agreeing...

Its probably just me ... but I have this urge to buy all the old cameras I used to own, as well as the ones I wanted to own but could never afford! So an AE-1 and a T90 from my Canon days; but then the F80 is drawing my more than the F70 as it can use my G lenses ... but then an F5 is only £150 or so :)
 
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Some time ago a friend gave me a Nikon F-801S as a gift, just to try a camera from the late 80s / early 90s, and it was a nice surprise to use it. The finder is big and bright, the autofocus works and not so slow as described in many reviews (sometimes even faster than a entry level Nikon DSLR), very well constructed, all plastic but not the cheap one, uses 4 standard AA batteries, easy to find anywhere so you can forget about problems in that area, and has all the functions, from full automatic to full manual. It is ugly as hell, but works just great. :D
 
Sounds like we're agreeing...

Its probably just me ... but I have this urge to buy all the old cameras I used to own, as well as the ones I wanted to own but could never afford! So an AE-1 and a T90 from my Canon days; but then the F80 is drawing my more than the F70 as it can use my G lenses ... but then an F5 is only £150 or so :)

Well the only reason I bought an AF camera was that I was annoyed at getting my fast moving grandchildren OOF..any AF camera would have done (well I thought) and the Nikon 401 with 70-210 zooom turned up first at the bootie..h'mm what a piece of garbage as the camera was the boss and not the operator in that I wanted to take a shot once and the camera wouldn't fire because it decided the exposure\shutter speed was wrong..bloody cheek ignoring my choice :rolleyes: so I had a zoom and lucky the F90x turned up and it has a fairly fast AF and I'm the boss.
 
I have D3200. Manual focus lenses only work on full manual exposure ode, and you dont get exposure meterig. You have to eter with another lens, use hand held or f16-sunny.
Most digital lenses are DX, and only offer coverage over 1/2 the frame area on a full-frame camera, with extreme corner vignettg and distortion.
Other way around, using FF legacy lenses on DX Digital brings issue above.
To all xtents and puposes, trying to get any inter-compatability twixt the two is a bit of a mire; early Nikon MF lenses for instance, wont couple, and you do have issue with potential contact damage.
I use, legacy lenses, mostly M42 via adapter on the electric picture maker, and a couple or T2 remounts... BUT for th most part I tend to keep lenses native to the camera they belong to.
I still have fairly extesive Olympus OM outfit that was front line SLR until I got the EPM, as well as my Sigma MK1 all metal, all manual M42 outfit... ls a Zenit, a Zies ikonta 120 folder, and a few others.

M42.... great system, I got into it i the early 90's when the Sigma fell out of some-ones attic. atthe time M42 lenses were doubly cheap as chips, and primes even more so. I used to pick up lucky boxes for £5 when went to get film, and see what I culd make work! These days MFT brigade have given them something of a cult status and prices are a lot less 'chap'... BUT still some great lenses out there for very very lttle money; eg, my front line lenses are a Pentacon 29, and a Ziess Jena 50. The ziess is loverly, and you can still pick them up for well under £50, often wth a camera attatched. AND you know you can flog on anything M42 as easily as you bought it. I do use the M42 lenses on the EPM, on infinity corrected adaptor. Not as first course, it is a faff, and if I want to faff, I will shoot them on the Sigma, with film, they are native to. As a system, It stands a long hard look, and old Zeniths and Practkas that take them are virtually worthless these days. A genuine Pentax, shouldn't break the bank too much ether; with many Richoc and richoch copies like teh Sigma ot there, that with a little research can be absolute steals....

Olympus OM.... I shot this system exztensively through the 90's. I still have an OM10, whch is a loverly bt of kit for the money. I used to pick them up for about £5 a time, and abuse them mercilessly! I eventually stepped up to an OM4, which is even more wonderful... BUT for a small prpensity to EAT batteries faster than t will shoot film! Single dgit OM1's & 2's were the pro-am grade bodies of their day, more durable, and more highly valued they are probably the better buy still reletvely 'cheap' for what you get, but the 10's are still to my mind a heck of a lot of camera for your money. Bayonette mount, the bodie AND lenses can, start to get a little wobbly... one rason the M42's are so good.... brick out-house like constuctin.. well, excluding practikas! Most enses are zooms, and the MFT boys seem t have kept prices high, on the primes, which apart from the 50's tend to be rarr and especially at the wide end, still over priced. But, as a stsyem, it does offer a far amount of VFM, and the 10, lacking the prtensions the single digt OM's got can be a cracking camera.... I actually preffer it n many ways to the 4, and ot just because I dont have to swap batteries before firng the shutter! As a cheap way into flm and manual focus, t is STILL avery god cheap way into the game.

Other systems.... Pentax 'K' mount, for example, share much with the Olympus, and M42, in astonding array ofgenune and copy kit arond, and prices that vary from how 'cheap' to how MUCH!!!! If you do your homework, it could be as good a way into t as anything.

Nikon 'legacy' that they haven't changed the F-Mount sice umety jckety two is a bt mute, as far as I am concerned; was a prompt in my choice t by Nikon when I got the EPM, but I had also been lookig t swap t the F-Mount system for some years... it was just too expensive to justfy! And conclusion ow is that that legacy F-Mont ompatabilit IS a bit of a doble edged sword.... BUT, if you are prepared to pay that bt extra, again, ther's still a lot of very good lenses out there for sensble money, and plenty of crackng cameras that needn't break the bank, and will hold value and sell on readily. I WOLD avod the later AF examples though, motor in body they weren't as fast as the cannons, they were expensve, and the lower speced versions usually took obscure non rechargeable batteries that are now unobtanum or horendousely expensive. Some used rechargeable AA's, which would be a uch better bet, but.... personally, these cameras are a bit neither nor to me; they aren't a full sensation 'manual' camera, nor a fully automatc electric-picture-maker. They are cheap, but f you spend more on film and batteries, possbly not! And that nggle goes for a lot of 90's and 00's AF offerngs, of whch BIG cauton has to be offered over any of the APS format ones that prceeded the DX dgtals. Cartridge flm for them is ow pretty much obsolete, and yu dont get that full-framiness from them ether. Most often sold for the leses tat may be compatble with some mor modern digtal SLR's.

You THEN have the small matter tha a film camera is lttle ore than a light tght box to keep the film in. Lens on the font ad film in the back were the ket thngs to pctures, after operator. All of them are now quarter century plus old, which is best or best value will very much depend not on the make or model or specification when new, but how ts been looked after since..... conditon s all.....

AND, if you want a real steel? I have to say, looking at 35mm and certanly 35mm SLR is somethig of a blind alley. They were, significantly over specified and over priced ad over rated when they were new... bggest advantage of 35mm was the 'compact' film format, wihch allowed a very small camera. Sticking a pentaprism on the top, and a large mirror housng often rendered that plus somewhat mute, for little gain other than Through-The-Lens focus and compositon..... many vanted view-finder and rage finders, that could explot the 'compact' format, and could ofte have better 'true focal length' lenses.

In the 35mm arena, there are lots and lots of bargais out there, by way of things like the Minox 35, which is as small as my Olympus XA2's, with a pop out true focual length 35mm lens. My father bought one of these, around 1992, and it cost hm then, as much as my D3200 did quarter century later. Fantastc bit of kit, so often pased over thse days smply because its NOT an SLR and doesn't have iterchangeable lenes. BUT amazing quality camera, and NOT a 'cheap' compact. That, like many non SLR 35mm's was a pretty expensive enthusiast camera in its day, around £500's worth n 1990, you ca pick up now for maybe £50. Better value, is the XA2, which I have had since 1980, it too was as expensive the shop as an entry level OM10. Suffers slightly havng an 'equated' 35mm lns, to keep the body copact, and save 'pop ot' or bellows, and hidden under clamshell cover, it was a camera that set a ew standard in ts day for pocketability as well as qualty. You can pick these up for under £25 these days, in very good conditon. The Rolie of course remains the kiddie and has assocated prce, but agan, you dont have to break the bank to get even one of them. Abslte bargan basement, I have a very nie Konica C35, which like the minox has a fast ad genune focal length 35m les, and a semi-auto exposure system that made t a favourite n ts day as both an enthsasts camera Dad could get a bit pretentouse with, but could hand wide and kds to use as a pot and shoot. These can be picked up for like a FIVER now, smply ecause they dot have the name, or a pentaprism... So outside the SLR world there is a HUGE arena to find very very good cameras for real bargain prices, that n many cases ar as good or better than SLR's.

Following that train of logic, and shelving ideas you 'might' be able to share lenses with Electric-Picture-Maker... and whether you can 'live' hapily with a fixed lens (and suggestion you have had 35mm prime permenantly attatched to D3200, sggests you probably can), then you have the whole world of Medium format to look at, where, again, fixed lens folders or reflex box cameras, NOT being the high end 'system' cameras like a Bronica or Mamiya or 'blad, are again hugely under rated the market, and things like my Zies Ikonta folder, with 105mm ziess lens are INCREDIBLE value.. that one, folded slips n a coat pocket more easily than an OM10, eve an OM broken down withut lens! Yet delvers that medium fomat loverliness in that HUGE negatve, you can only dream of even with 'good' 35mm... £25?!?!?!?! that' ridiculous! Whlst lacking through the lens viewfinder.... actually lacking much by way of a veiefnder! Wholey manual, maual focus, and by scale! You DO get that full 'antique'nolvement of havig to think about what you are dog, the camera dong nothing for you. YET, t actually doesn't have to be all that much faff, and after wavig had held light meter abot a bit, and realising you still have to use 'judgement' t does actually distill everything down, and you stop frettig about buttons and settngs and just get on with the job. And it's an aena that puts off so many, and where folk prepared for it, so often want the more elevated system cameras, and 'pro' gear there are just SO many really really good cameras about for absolute penneis.

In your shoes... I would ot be looking for specific camera recomends...... nor tryg to stick to a budget.

First off, I would be weighing up, the merits of 35mm vs medum format. And consdering thngs like home developg, and whether I was going to print or scan. Scanning is convenient. But most affordable scanners are for the 35mm format. You can do MF on a flatbed, or an a adaptor, but they are rare and more expnsive. 35mm scores here on the convenience and cost bt you aren't gettig that hge leap i format size MF offers. If you are planning to home print? yo can develop both 35mm and MF with minimal equpment in the kitchen. Basically a dev tank ad spiral. MF just takes more chemicals, BUT you can 'contact prnt' and get decent viewable size prints, without an enlarger. 35mm is so small you will want t enlarge to pit, or scan to a viewable size. Begging an eglarger, and some sort of dark-room even a temperary bathroom set up.... aga, need ot be partcularly expensive, but probably a lot more and a lot more to consder than the camera.

Overall, 35m probably wns on cost vs convenience, especially if you dont home process, and use comercal labs; which for 35m at the cheap end can ve prtty cheap. MF will tend to be a bt eyewaterig, BUT yo keep costs i check by rmembering ts flm, you pay per frame, and so think twce, and ask whether what you are looking at IS worth a exposure.... so you will likely take fewer photo's and get mre keeprs from them.

Then, its on to that choice between viw-finders and range finders vs system SLR's.... where if bang for your buck is that crucial, you are probably best of dismissing system SLR's altogether, and looking very hard and dong plenty of research on any sub £25 e-bay offering of a 35mm compact, to cherry pick those enthusiast offerigs over over non enthusiast, over the counter P&S..

AND ultimately, it will only be the 'start' of an adventure in film, and if you find enthusiasm for it, follow o wll be 'what NEXT film camera'....

My advice? Here and now, if you pressed me to offer just one camera? I cant do it... REALLY cant do it! Given you have taken to the 35mm prime on the EPM, though, would have t recomend a non SLR, ad or toe in the water exercise, that Konica C35, for as little as a roll of film? Has to be hard to beat. XA2 is gaining a fan base again, its much more P&S, but again, a lot of camera for £20 or so, and then you have older stuff, like y GRandad's old Kodak retnette, that agan has fixed lens, but a good one, s fully manual, and handles a lot more like an SLR withot being a SLR, and can be picked up for Zenit or Practika sort of money, in teh £20 region. Personally that would have me looking at old folders and reflex's of the medum format veriety, and 'wondering'... but sticking to 35mm for likely convenience of gettig film, gettg it processed and scanned ond or prited..... those non SLR35's would be where I looked, and given huge umber on offer, would look at adds, then research candidated for orignal spec, owners reviews and buy on condition.

I would NOT recomend a 'cheap' slr like a zenit.... thogh I do have one.... they were always cheap, and always wll be, and they do have quirly handling; Practca's, eve cheaper, they dot have the brick outhouse build of the Zenits, and even more quirky handling. And having interchageable lenses wll likely take you into that gadget aquesition sysndrome, where findng good lenses you are likely NOT to be doing t all for penny pocket money! OM10? As toe in the water, for £25-50? Yeah, maybe.... t s still a lot of camera for your cash, lens choice s pretty good, though ostly zooms, and yu might avoid the GAS problem more easily. If you have to have a system SLR n 35mm format, it is probaby the one I would recommend with fewest qualms.

But, if you want to explore, then you will start to hanker for the higher spec cameras. and at some point be faced with the system shift dilemah, to which there's no good answer, other than bite the bullet ad pay the money, and MF will rear its ugly head again to get the 'real deal' from it.

But, as toe the water, price of a petrol station disposeable... ONE name.... Konica C35....here's a few on e-bay right now; I'd avod the later ones with integrap flashe's, but earlier ones, like mine, even at dealer prces aren't commandig much more than £30, while there's a rather ice, high spec range-rinder eddition up at the moment for barely a tenner, another for £15, and even a dealer one for under £40. Non range-rinder verions, which are likely little handicap, privately? I have seen for as little as £5! Remember condition is all, and those prces are for a mid-market 'enthusiast' camera of the early 70's, not a P&S comact of the 80's, with lens, and a true focal length one, with pretty impressive f2.8 aperture.. It s something I would use as a bench-mark... and err... well, mine wa my Grandad's, so has added sentimental value, BUT, one I wouldn't object to paying money for. (And I have seldom paid money for a film camera, so that is some accolade!)

Olympus XA2's..... err... yeah... STILL love mine... and it probably is still my most used film camera.. I probably would buy anther... again checkng e-bay, prices start from a ludicrous quid, and go up to silly money for the rarer more collectible versions; BUT a tenner gets you a good working example, probably with flash and presentation case. And somethig that is still very very useable, if not quite so involved, but definitely a bit of photographic history. As said, over the years an XA2 has probably been my most used camera, and of the flm camera's still IS.. small irny when I bought the D3200 EPM, to replace yet another extinct dig-compact, the XA2 found its way into my pocket agan, and njoyed a bt of a renaisace dong what it has always done best.... just be there, when photo-op arses, and not beg lots of faff to grab it!

They are well recomended. I have three.... so I probably wouldn't need to buy another.... the orignal 'range-rinder' XA on the other hand has tempted me a few times, this is a manual focus camera, rather than smpler zone focus model, and has a slightly more complicated lens ad focus system.... these have never been 'chap' and rarely a bargain, they still command around £100 for a good example... and as such s not a bargain, but why the Konica range finder editions are such good value for probably a better, f slightly less compact camera with the same degree of user involvement, and a true focal length lens rather than an equated compound one. You do have to be a it clued up about XA's though as the plain XA s a range fnder and as said expensive, ad SN'T an XA1 which was a cut-price selenium cell version of the XA2, ad no where near as useful or freindly t use, or as valuable as they try and make them in the adds. XA3's and XA4's were derivatves of the orignal XA2, and OTMH I thik the XA4 had a 28m wide angle lens rather than 35mm 'standard' and XA3 a closer close focus and DX flm speed codng, or somethig like that, but other tha special body colours, they were pretty much XA2's, that remans teh classic. Later Mju's, packed eve more automation, with motor film advance, and inbult flas, and the last of them even offered rather dodgy 'zoom' lenses. We had about three of the orignal Mju's in the family whe they were new, bougt mostly for lades, as they were easy to use P&, that sld on the legacy of the XA2... but personally? dont rate the. They were a very much bult down to a prce consumer conpact, packed with unnecessary fatures, and rather fragle. My ex did have one of the last 'zoom' edditions, and franklyit wasn't worth the film t took! Horrible horrble camera.

BUT I mention thse only as coparison to the Konca.... the XA2 is a cult camera, there are more than a few XA2 users and exponents on here, and for £10-£15 or £20 they are a lot of camera for your cash; but the Konica, has to reman my top choice and bench mark. While NON SLR cameras wold reman favurite for VFM and useablity.

IF you have to go system SLR, then for the cost of an OM10 compared to a Zenth or Practca, again, for geune pocket money prices that would have to be my top suggestion.....

I would nightmare at the last AF SLR's, and the myriad of cameras with ever more automation, potentially obsolete lens systems, and battery issues. I would NOT buy a APS example, been though they are incredibly cheap; unless it had a very very interestng/valuable lens on it I could make use of on a DSLR, but most wont. Of 35mm offerings I would be dong lots of research on what was on offer, to check I COULD actually use it now, as is, and not have to modfy t to get roud battery issues etc. AND sangune, that what I was buyg really wasn't much different to a slow Electrc-Picture-Maker I had to buy film for! So n matter how 'cheap', for what t dd, I may as well save my money ad shoot the EPM!

Which WOULD bring me back to the notion that one of those old manual focus, manual EVERYTHING 120 folders or Twin-Lens-Reflex's, for that real difference in the experience, and reslts, probably WAS worth the inconvenience.... o the principle that that 'incovenience' is actually a heck of a lot of the 'experience' and learning and joy of old flm cameras... ad they offer that huge dfference ad deliver the sort of results on they can for it... and can be just as 'cheap'.

Bottom lin is thatthe variables are SO huge, you ave to do your home-work; whats on offer, take yur choice ad pay your money... but aproah with an open mind; dont dismiss non SLR's, ad ponder just how you will likely use, and what you are really hoping for.... as an 'investment'?!?! forget it. You lmost certaily wont make money buying something that's cheap now, that will be worth a fortune in 10 years time! AND n all likelihood all the expeiment will do is find new and imaginative ways for you to waste your money..... so set a dget, and milk the amount of 'fun' you ca from it.
could you elaborate please:p-just not near enough detail;)
 
I'd look at the lenses first and pick up a body to match. The Minolta SLR lenses from the late 60's through the 90's are superb and relatively inexpensive, at least for the less exotic ones. I'd recommend:

Manual focus: Minolta X500 or X700 (I've seen them go for £30 to £50)

Autofocus: Dynax 5 or 606si (£15 upwards)

Pair them with any Rokkor 50mm f1.8 and you're good to go.
 
Manual focus: Minolta X500 or X700 (I've seen them go for £30 to £50)

I've the 300 and 700 but picked up at the bootie a XD-11 with Minolta 50mm f1.4 lens for £15 and now prefer the XD-11 over the others....I haven't compared specs of the XD11 to X700 but like the XD11 more because of the contols.
 
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