The lens mount wars ... it's going to get messy

StewartR

StewartR

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Here's an interesting observation by Thom Hogan the other day.

At the end of the film era (around the turn of the millennium), interchangeable lens cameras - ignoring medium format - basically came with a very small number of mount options:
  • Canon EF
  • Leica M
  • Nikon F
  • Minolta A
  • Pentax K
But now, if you were to go into a hypothetical fully-stocked camera shop, you would have the choice - again ignoring medium format - of all these:
  • Canon EF
  • Canon EF-S
  • Canon EF-M
  • Canon RF
  • Fujifilm X
  • Leica M
  • Leica TL
  • Leica SL
  • Nikon F-FX
  • Nikon F-DX
  • Nikon Z
  • m4/3
  • Pentax K
  • Pentax Q
  • Sigma SA
  • Sony A
  • Sony E
  • Sony FE
Something's got to give.
 
I think Sony e and fe may be the same thing?

Other than that it's just capitalism and the market and some will fail or at best cling on to niche numbers of sales. It would be nice if there was a standard mount like in MFT land and it would be great if everyone shared the protocols etc so that anyone could make a lens that'd work perfectly on a Sony, Canon or Nikon etc but I can't see it happening.

One thing I've done is try and limit the number of native lenses I have to the ones I think I "need" most and I also have a number of film era manual lenses I can use via a cheap adapter.
 
StewartR said:
Here's an interesting observation by Thom Hogan the other day.

At the end of the film era (around the turn of the millennium), interchangeable lens cameras - ignoring medium format - basically came with a very small number of mount options:
  • Canon EF
  • Leica M
  • Nikon F
  • Minolta A
  • Pentax K
But now, if you were to go into a hypothetical fully-stocked camera shop, you would have the choice - again ignoring medium format - of all these:
  • Canon EF
  • Canon EF-S
  • Canon EF-M
  • Canon RF
  • Fujifilm X
  • Leica M
  • Leica TL
  • Leica SL
  • Nikon F-FX
  • Nikon F-DX
  • Nikon Z
  • m4/3
  • Pentax K
  • Pentax Q
  • Sigma SA
  • Sony A
  • Sony E
  • Sony FE
Something's got to give.
Click to expand...
I think he missed a major player. Olympus.
 
woof woof said:
I think Sony e and fe may be the same thing?

Other than that it's just capitalism and the market and some will fail or at best cling on to niche numbers of sales. It would be nice if there was a standard mount like in MFT land and it would be great if everyone shared the protocols etc so that anyone could make a lens that'd work perfectly on a Sony, Canon or Nikon etc but I can't see it happening.

One thing I've done is try and limit the number of native lenses I have to the ones I think I "need" most and I also have a number of film era manual lenses I can use via a cheap adapter.
Click to expand...
Limit :ROFLMAO:beg your pardon thought you meant those other lenses
 
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Can't stand Thom Hogan, is there ever a time he's not moaning? He should sign up here, fit right in :D

Does he think he's the only one to have realised this? It's going to get more boring, with fanboy wars worse than ever before

Stephen L said:
I think he missed a major player. Olympus.
Click to expand...

M43 is on the list, which includes Panasonic, Olympus and er ... Yi

Unless you mean from the old era? the OM mount?
 
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Cagey75 said:
Can't stand Thom Hogan, is there ever a time he's not moaning? He should sign up here, fit right in :D

Does he think he's the only one to have realised this? It's going to get more boring, with fanboy wars worse than ever before



M43 is on the list, which includes Panasonic, Olympus and er ... Yi

Unless you mean from the old era? the OM mount?
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OM, and the original 4/3 before m4/3 came along.
 
Stephen L said:
OM, and the original 4/3 before m4/3 came along.
Click to expand...

Yeah I figured that's what you meant after posting, hence the edit ;) We had old Olympus film cameras at home when I was a kid, I distinctly remember the 'Trip' - it was a fun camera that
 
Nikon FX and DX only penalise you one way. FX lenses can be used on DX cameras (F mount), DX lenses incur a penalty when used on FX cameras (F mount)
The mount is the same, just different sensor size.
 
Peter123 said:
Nikon FX and DX only penalise you one way. FX lenses can be used on DX cameras (F mount), DX lenses incur a penalty when used on FX cameras (F mount)
The mount is the same, just different sensor size.
Click to expand...

Many of the newer FX camera also have a DX mode so DX lenses work fine on there too
 
We've been here before. At the height of the SLR boom in the 80s, there were over a dozen incompatible mounts for 35mm cameras in simultaneous production, including:

Canon FD
Pentax K
Olympus OM
Minolta MD
Nikon F
Contax/Yashica
Konica
Fujica X
Mamiya
Praktica B
Rollei QBM
Leica R
Leica M
M42

That isn't even counting earlier and later variants with varying degrees of compatibility (e.g. Pentax KA, Contax MM, Nikon AI vs pre-AI, M42 variants, etc.), or discontinued cameras for which third party lenses were still made (e.g. Exakta), or the old Leica screw and Contax bayonet mounts used by Soviet rangefinders, or the new and incompatible AF mounts on the horizon from Canon, Minolta, Contax (N and G), Yashica (now incompatible with Contax) and Sigma.

Some of the current mounts will presumably go the same way as Fujica X, though there are fewer companies involved this time and they are making different ranges for different markets.
 
totally agree on this Stewart , I cannot for the life of me see why they just haven't agreed as in the case of panasonic and olympus over a interchangeable mount system akin to m4/3 . the present policies undoubtedly mean that further down the line someone is going to take a big fall and in the end we will end up the losers with another brand or two disappearing
 
Peter123 said:
Nikon FX and DX only penalise you one way. FX lenses can be used on DX cameras (F mount), DX lenses incur a penalty when used on FX cameras (F mount)
The mount is the same, just different sensor size.
Click to expand...

Canon EF and EFS is like this too. EF lenses will mount on crop sensor bodies no problem. I've also mounted my EFS lens on my EF mount film Canon body with no problem, apart from the smaller image circle. The actual mount is the same
 
I personally think each brand should only have a single mount (excluding MF).

This would mean a single mount for the following.

* Canon/Nikon/Pentax/Sony/Fuji/Leica(SL) - a collective bunch on lenses that all cover FF and APS-C where required with brands such as Sigma, Samyang, Zeiss and Tamron (plus others) able to then produce a single “universal” lens fit for all.

You can then have some of the great Fuji glass available to the guys running A6500s and similarly you can get some of the great Sony glass on the Fuji XT3 etc. Nikon and canon glass would work on either system and everyone would be happy to swap to the body of choice when needed without worrying about the cost of changing glass by brand.

Panasonic/Olympus to cover M43 but to revert to the above where FF is included in spec.

Leica to keep “M” because why not. It hasn’t changed in years and it’s all manual anyway.

You then have 3 collective mounts, two modern, one historic. Samyang and similar Manual focus partners then don’t need to include daft adapters for glass and all the cheap adatpers out there that we may waste our cash on would cease to realistically exist bar entertaining the vintage market.
 
RichardC27 said:
Canon EF and EFS is like this too. EF lenses will mount on crop sensor bodies no problem. I've also mounted my EFS lens on my EF mount film Canon body with no problem, apart from the smaller image circle. The actual mount is the same
Click to expand...
Though some EFS lenses will have rear elements that protrude further into the mirror box than the EF lenses does risking either mirror or lens when mounting it on FF bodies.
 
RichardC27 said:
Canon EF and EFS is like this too. EF lenses will mount on crop sensor bodies no problem. I've also mounted my EFS lens on my EF mount film Canon body with no problem, apart from the smaller image circle. The actual mount is the same
Click to expand...
What isn't always the same is the clearance (or lack of it!) between the mirror and the rear lens element/housing, so mounting EF-S lenses on a full frame camera isn't recommended.

With reference to the original post, as other people have pointed out, there's been a lot of different lens mount types on the market for many years, and the availability of cheaper third-party lenses was probably the reason why many people chose one of the big three or four manufactures at the time. Go for a less popular make and you were probably limited to OEM lenses, and that range may not have been particularly extensive.

It's got more complicated these days with the introduction of crop sensor and full frame mirrorless cameras, with each major manufacturer now seemingly making two or three different lens mounts. We live in interesting times, and only time will tell whether you've bought a Betamax or VHS video recorder, or an 8 track cartridge or a compact cassette player!
 
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Mr Badger said:
We live in interesting times, and only time will tell whether you've bought a Betamax or VHS video recorder, or an 8 track cartridge or a compact cassette player!
Click to expand...
And all superseded by mp3/download.
 
  • Canon EF - (Deadman walking)
  • Canon EF-S - (Deadman walking)
  • Canon EF-M - (Deadman walking)
  • Canon RF
  • Fujifilm X
  • Leica M - (niche)
  • Leica TL - (niche)
  • Leica SL
  • Nikon F-FX - (Deadman walking)
  • Nikon F-DX - (Deadman walking)
  • Nikon Z
  • m4/3
  • Pentax K - (Deadman walking)
  • Pentax Q - (Deadman walking)
  • Sigma SA - (Deadman walking)
  • Sony A - (Deadman walking)
  • Sony E - (you can use lenses from the FE on it)
  • Sony FE
That only leaves 6.
 
Raymond Lin said:
  • Canon EF - (Deadman walking)
  • Canon EF-S - (Deadman walking)
  • Canon EF-M - (Deadman walking)
  • Canon RF
  • Fujifilm X
  • Leica M - (niche)
  • Leica TL - (niche)
  • Leica SL
  • Nikon F-FX - (Deadman walking)
  • Nikon F-DX - (Deadman walking)
  • Nikon Z
  • m4/3
  • Pentax K - (Deadman walking)
  • Pentax Q - (Deadman walking)
  • Sigma SA - (Deadman walking)
  • Sony A - (Deadman walking)
  • Sony E - (you can use lenses from the FE on it)
  • Sony FE
That only leaves 6.
Click to expand...
Providing you haven't been sold a Betamax system? :whistle: ;)
 
Raymond Lin said:
No, VHS man myself.

I do have a HD-DVD Player though!
Click to expand...

That's the thing, is FF mirrorless really the way ahead, or is it just another Blue Ray or 3D TV? I'll be sticking with DSLR a while longer yet, it does what I want and I'm not yet too old and feeble to carry my camera bag around. Talking of that, have you seen the size of those new FF mirrorless lenses? The camera bodies might have got smaller and lighter, but isn't that negated by the need to bolt a dustbin on the front?!
 
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Mr Badger said:
That's the thing, is FF mirrorless really the way ahead, or is it just another Blue Ray or 3D TV? I'll be sticking with DSLR a while longer yet, it does what I want and I'm not yet too old and feeble to carry my camera bag around. Talking of that, have you seen the size of those new FF mirrorless lenses? The cameras might have got smaller and lighter, but isn't that negated by the need to bolt a dustbin on the front?!
Click to expand...

Everything will get replaced, no matter what format you go for, the aim is bet on one with the longest legs from today.
 
Raymond Lin said:
  • Canon EF - (Deadman walking)
  • Canon EF-S - (Deadman walking)
  • Canon EF-M - (Deadman walking)
  • Canon RF
  • Fujifilm X
  • Leica M - (niche)
  • Leica TL - (niche)
  • Leica SL
  • Nikon F-FX - (Deadman walking)
  • Nikon F-DX - (Deadman walking)
  • Nikon Z
  • m4/3
  • Pentax K - (Deadman walking)
  • Pentax Q - (Deadman walking)
  • Sigma SA - (Deadman walking)
  • Sony A - (Deadman walking)
  • Sony E - (you can use lenses from the FE on it)
  • Sony FE
That only leaves 6.
Click to expand...
I think it's FAR to early to label EF & F mounts as dead. Their mirrorless alternatives have hardly even started to sell yet & may still prove to be a total flop.
I'm pretty sure people have been claiming Pentax was dead for the last 25 years...

I currently have adapters that would enable 7 of your dead men to keep shooting on my mirrorless body, along with at least another 8 of the film era ones.
 
Petrochemist said:
I think it's FAR to early to label EF & F mounts as dead. Their mirrorless alternatives have hardly even started to sell yet & may still prove to be a total flop.
I'm pretty sure people have been claiming Pentax was dead for the last 25 years...

I currently have adapters that would enable 7 of your dead men to keep shooting on my mirrorless body, along with at least another 8 of the film era ones.
Click to expand...

Not dead, deadman walking.

I have 9 EF lenses myself and two 5D4 and 4 x 600 EX-RT.

Just because we have the gear it doesn't mean it is the future.

I have a VHS player too, that doesn't mean that format is alive and well, same as PS1 games or Gameboy.
 
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StewartR said:
Here's an interesting observation by Thom Hogan the other day.

At the end of the film era (around the turn of the millennium), interchangeable lens cameras - ignoring medium format - basically came with a very small number of mount options:
  • Canon EF
  • Leica M
  • Nikon F
  • Minolta A
  • Pentax K
But now, if you were to go into a hypothetical fully-stocked camera shop, you would have the choice - again ignoring medium format - of all these:
  • Canon EF
  • Canon EF-S
  • Canon EF-M
  • Canon RF
  • Fujifilm X
  • Leica M
  • Leica TL
  • Leica SL
  • Nikon F-FX
  • Nikon F-DX
  • Nikon Z
  • m4/3
  • Pentax K
  • Pentax Q
  • Sigma SA
  • Sony A
  • Sony E
  • Sony FE
Something's got to give.
Click to expand...

tbh that second list is inflated
its more like...
  • Canon EF(-S)
  • Canon EF-M
  • Canon RF
  • Fujifilm X
  • Leica M
  • Leica S/TL
  • Nikon F
  • Nikon Z
  • m4/3
  • Pentax K
  • Pentax Q
  • Sigma SA
  • Sony A
  • Sony E
I think out of these Canon EF-M will be the first one to die.
 
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Phones are the future, and most of the present. It wasn't just the increasing dominance of Canon and Nikon that killed off all those 80s SLR systems, but a move to compact automatic cameras when the technology became good enough to give people decent results with a minimum of fuss.
 
Retune said:
Phones are the future, and most of the present. It wasn't just the increasing dominance of Canon and Nikon that killed off all those 80s SLR systems, but a move to compact automatic cameras when the technology became good enough to give people decent results with a minimum of fuss.
Click to expand...

I'll believe that when there is a 600mm lens on a phone or when there is a gigapixel sensor with a lens that can resolve it :p
 
nandbytes said:
tbh that second list is inflated
its more like...
  • Canon EF(-S)
  • Canon EF-M
  • Canon RF
  • Fujifilm X
  • Leica M
  • Leica S/TL
  • Nikon F
  • Nikon Z
  • m4/3
  • Pentax K
  • Pentax Q
  • Sigma SA
  • Sony A
  • Sony E
Click to expand...
Agreed... I.e. there is no difference in the mount or flange distance/mirror box depth for the Nikon F mount... the difference is in the lens optics (image circle size).
 
StewartR said:
Here's an interesting observation by Thom Hogan the other day.

<snip>
Something's got to give.
Click to expand...

Why?

Some camera brands and sensor formats may not survive, and there are lots of reasons why that might happen, but it's not because of the lens mount.

We've got close to a kind of universal lens mount in the past with the Pentax-K bayonet that was 'open' and used by multiple camera manufacturers over the years. Where are they now? They all failed to make the jump into digital and Pentax itself is on the brink of extinction (again). To look at it another way, would putting a Canon or Nikon mount on a Pentax camera save the day (even if they could, which they couldn't)? It's the Pentax brand and its camera models that are the problem.

If a camera is selling well and there's a decent pool of users out there, its lenses are also selling and that's a key component of any camera manufacturer's business model - so it will continue.
 
nandbytes said:
I'll believe that when there is a 600mm lens on a phone or when there is a gigapixel sensor with a lens that can resolve it :p
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Of course SLRs (and even rangefinders) didn't go away last time, and I don't expect anyone here to swap their Nikons for an iPhone any time soon :), but I wonder how many competing systems are sustainable in a time when much of the rapid technological development is going into phone cameras, everyone has one in their pocket, and most images are viewed on screens? If the AF is fast enough and the noise is low enough and traditional optical effects like shallow DOF can be faked convincingly enough, then does that just leave mirrorless and dSLR systems as platforms for more extreme focal lengths and professional applications? A few years ago, you'd still see dedicated cameras (system or compact) brought out in casual social situations; now it's rare to see anything other than a phone. Low-end compact cameras are in danger of extinction. With better-equipped phone cameras improving all the time, will the sort of people who bought a CSC and a lens or two be bothering with separate cameras ten years from now?
 
HoppyUK said:
Why?

Some camera brands and sensor formats may not survive, and there are lots of reasons why that might happen, but it's not because of the lens mount.

We've got close to a kind of universal lens mount in the past with the Pentax-K bayonet that was 'open' and used by multiple camera manufacturers over the years. Where are they now? They all failed to make the jump into digital and Pentax itself is on the brink of extinction (again). To look at it another way, would putting a Canon or Nikon mount on a Pentax camera save the day (even if they could, which they couldn't)? It's the Pentax brand and its camera models that are the problem.

If a camera is selling well and there's a decent pool of users out there, its lenses are also selling and that's a key component of any camera manufacturer's business model - so it will continue.
Click to expand...

Rumours of Pentax's demise have been circulating since the advent of AF, it'll be around for a long time yet. It wasn't long ago that people on here thought Nikon was about to disappear.

Think the SA mount is very similar to K - just the depth of the mount differs from what I can recall...

I do think the K-mount has a lot of life left in it, although the F-mount is older by approx. 16 years, you can still use a 1975 Takumar on a K-1 with no modifications...
 
Raymond Lin said:
You can do that, some people are still shooting FD mount still, it doesn't mean that is the future though....
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It’s their future though!

I’m not big on philosophy, but your myopic world view perplexes me.

Why can’t everyone see that other people don’t see the world from their viewpoint.
 
welshwizard645 said:
Think the SA mount is very similar to K - just the depth of the mount differs from what I can recall...
Click to expand...

I've not checked, but the general consensus is that it's physically the same as the PK, except for the electronics & flange distance which match Canon's EF.
 
Phil V said:
It’s their future though!

I’m not big on philosophy, but your myopic world view perplexes me.

Why can’t everyone see that other people don’t see the world from their viewpoint.
Click to expand...

I can sort of see your point Phil but the thread seems to be about the multitude of mounts and the chance that some may not make it into the future.

It's ok to use old kit, I do and I have FD lenses but that's hardly the point of the thread IMO.
 
Phil V said:
It’s their future though!

I’m not big on philosophy, but your myopic world view perplexes me.

Why can’t everyone see that other people don’t see the world from their viewpoint.
Click to expand...

I’m not talking about their (person), I’m talking whether a mount (it) will still be in production.

Still perplexed?

Not sure why you read one thing and thought of something else. I thought my post was quite clear.

So I’m not sure what myopic view you are referring to other than you keep misunderstanding me, yet again.

Unless you think the FD mount is going to make a raging comeback.
 
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