Thats not really unusual ... most devices (not just cameras) in my experience are very difficult to roll back to earlier firmware. Its supposed to be for consumer protection so you never "downgrade" your camera.
The new Sony A9 - What are your thoughts
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ive done it on many motherboards and gpus, no reason not to allow it.
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I think a large part of the issue is online end users constantly berating Sony for features that they don't include. I'm not highlighting you specifically, just replying to your comment!
Sony do struggle to please everyone, mainly because they're trying to gain in a well-established market but their ethos is very technical-focused rather than getting the bread and butter requirements right first. They traditionally market themselves as a high-tech manufacturer and are constantly trying to pitch new solutions, sometimes for problems that don't actually exist. While I'm sure that the A9 AF is an improvement over previous generations, and mirrorless bodies in general, it still stands to be seen in a proper real-world scenario, how well it copes in poor lighting. A proper sports photographer will generally be shooting in all conditions, not just artificially lit indoor arenas. The fact that there were no established sports photographers at the Sony release does say a lot about Sony's actual confidence in the A9 beating the likes of the 1dXii or the D5 in the hands of someone who shoots sports with them every day, rather than online bloggers being asked to shoot sports when it's not what they do. I'm sure that if I was given an A9/70-200 and told to go and "shoot sports", I'd also come back with positive comments because I don't shoot sports regularly so wouldn't be best placed to point out any limitations.
Sony try to deliver a product that has as many bells and whistles/acronyms as possible whereas the majority of the actual pro market just want a solid stable system that delivers fast/consistent AF with the lenses they need and a robust build.
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You can roll back the firmware on Nikon DSLRs. At least, I've been told you can (see here) - I haven't actually tried it myself yet.
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Olympus did this with the EM1 Mk2 release as well, design a speed demon with significant sports/action promotion, then take the press on a dreary tour shooting rocks in Iceland. Very strange. Spend a lot less taking a few highly regarded amateur/early professional career motorsport photographers to the Dubai 24hrs with EM1 Mk2s and the PRO lens lineup and they might have gained a bit of traction early on.
Fuji (again) seem to get this bit right. They put a significant number of cameras in the hands of their X Shooters before release across a fairly diverse range of subject areas, they then lift the embargo fairly soon after the announcement. Whilst many will always have question marks about these (unpaid) 'brand ambassadors', it does at least get a lot of real life content out there nice and early.
Imagine the A9 body mounted with a Sony 300/400/500mm lens on it... crazy ergonomics.
It's not as bad as it looks in real life. I've shot some beastly lens on smallish bodies (and all handheld) for 10-12 hours or more, given that you primarily need to support the lens anyway the body isn't as critical as long as you find the grip comfortable. It's probably more of an issue with a really heavy mid-range prime.
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I said devices not components! There is a big difference.
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is there, what is the big differance? what other issues does it add? to change mobo/gpu firmware its integrated into the pc and when you upgrade a camera its the "processing engine/mobo" that the firmware gets changed on is it not? genuine questions btw
Re: Downgrading Firmware
The main reason for blocking this (from a software developers standpoint) is the user data.
Fold usually like to have their settings preserved when they upgrade - but a new Firmware will often add new settings, and so change the layout of the internal data to reflect this.
The older version of the firmware will have no knowledge of the newer data structure (how can it, it didn't exist when the old firmware was written), so has no way of reverting to the older structure.
At best this wipes your settings.
At worst you might end up with a scrambled set that that makes the camera lock up!
The main reason for blocking this (from a software developers standpoint) is the user data.
Fold usually like to have their settings preserved when they upgrade - but a new Firmware will often add new settings, and so change the layout of the internal data to reflect this.
The older version of the firmware will have no knowledge of the newer data structure (how can it, it didn't exist when the old firmware was written), so has no way of reverting to the older structure.
At best this wipes your settings.
At worst you might end up with a scrambled set that that makes the camera lock up!
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Imagine the A9 body mounted with a Sony 300/400/500mm lens on it... crazy ergonomics.
perfect walkabout lens
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Its also a support issue ... Camera (and other device) manufacturers don't want to be dealing with different firmware versions. Usually the first thing if you have a problem with how your camera, etc functions its "have you updated to the latest firmware".
Perhaps slightly talking at cross purposes, but I was more saying that (most) devices (as opposed to components such as motherboards) don't allow downgrading firmware. Theres not many good reasons why not (often a later firmware will lock out functionality) its just the way things are (in my experience). Cameras; audio visual equipment; games consoles; even kitchen appliances these days.
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firmware on kitchen devices-really,
well, well. i am happy with a light in the ovensorry for the side track guys and gals.
i hope sony do press forward with both tech and aftercare, with their sensors it could be amazing i just isnt there as a package for me yet-but i must admit my gas says otherwise at times
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You mean you haven't got an internet-enabled toaster? Honestly, some people....firmware on kitchen devices-really,
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red dwarfs talky toaster comes to mind
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That's that's just plain poor and stupid.
Cant believe you are whining about Sony, how dare you challenge their decisions!!!!!!!
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Yea it bloody is! Does my head in.
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Imagine the A9 body mounted with a Sony 300/400/500mm lens on it... crazy ergonomics.
Looks a bit more practical than my setup - quite dinky in fact!
However could it be manhandled by just gripping the camera? I think not. Could the tiny battery drive a lens like that quickly? Also where is the missing 300mm????!
Sony is making great progress but not in any direction that is of the slightest use to me.
Raymond Lin
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What is interesting and perhaps a little concerning is why are Sigma not making any E-mount lenses?
They make Nikon and Canon mount of all their lenses but what is stopping them making that same lens on an E-mount? Is it cost? does the E-mount require a redesign of the optical path of the lens? I know they make an adaptor but I really prefer not to use adaptors if I were to go Sony. Will getting a Sony body forever be stuck with adaptor for 3rd party lenses outside Sony/Zeiss?
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Sigma have supposedly said that E-Mount lenses are in the works but they would be new designs rather than just a re-mount, I for one think that their "Art" line in E-mount would be very very popular.
Actually the story is here: http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sigm...firms-new-fe-lenses-brand-new-optical-design/
woof woof
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I suppose it took time for Sigma to decide if making lenses for the A7x series was worth it. Fuji seem to be the ones getting the attention on this and other forums but I've read in more than one place that out in the non camera forum real world both the A6xxx series and the A7x series have been very successful but even if that's true no doubt it still took time for Sigma to crunch the numbers. I hope they do it, I'd be interested in a compact 35mm f1.8 and a 50mm macro but if Sigma do make lenses for the A7 series they might not make the lenses I want (good, compact and reasonably priced) as they may end up going for the higher end of the market and making larger and more expensive Art type lenses.
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i dont know if there is any truth to it but ive read in a few places than because of the lens/sensor distance on the sonys its harder to make the edges of the image as sharp as the centre. this is compared the greater distance on most dslrs which makes it optically simpler.
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Yes and no. The optics are more challenging *if* you're trying to design a lens that is more compact than a DSLR lens.
The Canon EF mount has a flange focal distance (the lens/sensor distance) of 44mm whereas the Sony E mount has a FFD of 18mm. So you can mount a Canon EF lens onto a Sony E camera with an adaptor that's 26mm thick. If you take a lens which is optically very good, for example the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Art, and stick a 26mm adapter on it, it will be just as good on a Sony camera with the adapter as it is on a Canon camera without the adapter.
And that's the design problem Sigma have. They could manufacture their lenses to fit Sony cameras just by extending them 26mm at the back. But they'd be huge. The 35mm Art is already 94mm long with a Canon mount, so tweaking it to fit a Sony mount would make it 120mm long, and a bit heavier too, and the balance would be very front-heavy.
Given that one of the advantages that is sometimes claimed for mirrorless cameras is that they can be more compact, Sigma would prefer to design lenses that are more compact. But that requires entirely new designs.
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The only problems I've read about are with wider angle Leica/Leica fit lenses. The native mount Sony/Zeiss lenses I have are the sharpest across the frame that I've ever used.
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I think that one factor which has made some A7 series lenses larger is because they're amongst the best ever made and aiming to be so across the frame at all apertures. We see the same with the Sigma Art series which are also rather large. I would like to see lenses that are good but not necessarily aiming to be the best ever made all the way across the frame at the widest apertures as hopefully being merely very good rather than the best in the history of everything will enable them to be compact and light.
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Actually, it looks like Sigma aren't the only ones facing that problem.
Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L II USM = 113mm long
Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM = 136mm long
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thats interesting, so to get round the problem, i guess its the steep angle of light onto the outside of sensor, even sony have found the need to increase distance to make the angle shallower. Or except that the outside edge will suffer i bit more. There is always optical compromise in any design, i guess its finding the one we can live with on a day to day bases.
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They said they are making e mount lenses
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Don't Sigma already make APS-C lenses for most systems, there's a limited number of "cheaper" Sigma lenses for the APS-C Sony mirrorless bodies, albeit no "Art" lenses or full frame yet.
They don't seem too interested in Fuji although that may be because it would be harder to compete with whats a fairly fully rounded Fuji lens line-up, there are still a few "gaps" certainly prime wise that Sigma could plug in the FE Mount (Sigma Art 24mm would be awesome!)
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Traditionally, it's always been claimed that shorter focal length lenses for non-DSLRs (eg Leica for film) can be better quality because they don't need the extra elements of an inverted-telephoto design that is necessary to extend the back-focus distance and clear the mirror-box of DSLRs. They can be sharper, and sit closer to the film/sensor to be more compact overall. And while there's some truth in the optical benefits, at least theoretically, the problem with digital is a) getting enough light at oblique angles into the pixel-well towards the edges and corners, and b) preventing the various filters in front of the sensor from interfering with light projected by the lens at these angles. For example, some Leica users hoping to use their super-wides designed for film have experienced strong vignetting and unusual flare effects on full-frame Sonys.
So what used to be claimed as an advantage is now a serious disadvantage with no cheap or easy answer. The solution involves both redesigned lenses and redesigned sensors - just to save 20mm on the overall depth of the lens/camera. On the other hand, current DSLR lenses with a short adapter should work perfectly.
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I read that part of the problem is also the nature of using digital sensors rather than film as sensors are flat and film isn't. Then there's the problem of sensor glass thickness etc varying if not from camera model to model then from marque to marque. I do think that this is a relatively small problem though and for everyone getting over excited about old 24mm Leica lens shots looking crap in the corners there'll be many more people who just couldn't give a flying, I'm therefore not sure that it'll ever be fully solved as the additional development costs to the camera manufacturer might only ever be worth a hand full of sales to die hard wide angle RF lens users.
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I must have been buying the wrong cameras, as the film I had was flat when rolled out behind the shutter.
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It's a problem for Sony with sensor design (off-set microlenses are only a partial cure) and a problem for any lens manufacturer that wants to realise the full benefits of wide-angle designs with their native short back focus distance.
It only applies to full-frame really though, as the angles involved with APS-C and smaller formats are much more tolerant. So, given that the size and weight benefits of full-frame mirrorless are minimal to non-existant overal compared to a similar DSLR system, my own view is it makes more sense to just forget about it and simply use DSLR wide-angle designs with a bit more physical length added to the barrel, or an adapter. On the balance of pros and cons, it's a lot easier and cheaper, and proven to work very well.
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So basically you are after some mid tier consumer lenses, like a nifty fifty or the Canon 85/1.8 or the 35/2.0 IS.
Personally though, with 44mp sensor, you'd want the sharpest lens possible otherwise why have that camera in the first place, go big or go home. Putting a not so sharp lens in front of a huge mega pixel sensor will make the photo looks a bit crap whereas it might look decent if it's on a 12mp sensor.
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Nikon manage it with the G lenses and the D800/D810, ok its not 42mp but even 36mp will stress poor lenses and the "cheaper" G lineup (20/24/35/50/85) is more than up to the task on the D8xx level bodies, why couldn't Sony do it? (I don't think they will to be fair..)
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That's what I thought when I moved up to a 24MP APS-C sensor, which has smaller more densely packed pixels than a full frame 44MP sensor, so is even less forgiving of lens defects, more likely to hit the much discussed problem of the sensor "outresolving" the lenses and showing up unpleasant crap that 14MP simply hadn't been able to pick up.
My two worst lenses from a detail resolution point of view were my 18-250mm general purpose zoom and my ancient but usefully tiny film era 35-70mm f4 zoom. The first surprise was that contrary to much of what I'd read in photography forums they didn't look any worse. Of course at a pixel level their lack of detail resolution was more obvious, but at any particular size of print or screen magnification they didn't actually look any worse than they had on a 14MP sensor.
The second surprise was that despite the fact that at 14MP both lenses were quite definitely soft and lacking in the detail resolution that good primes could produce, at 24MP they actually managed to show a little more detail resolution. The improvement was much less obvious than the improvement I got from my sharpest lenses, but it was still an improvement.
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I agree totally. Yet the powers that be at Sigma don't. I can't see how it would make commercial sense to develop completely new designs of lenses just for the Sony FE mount.
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I think there'd be a market for compact and light mid range lenses of reasonable but not state of the art quality if people can assess their needs realistically and forget about bragging rights. For example I have old Rokkor, Zuiko and FD lenses and mounted on my 24mp A7 they give nice images and are sharp at mid apertures. I'd imagine that they'd be ok on an A9 too if the image was downsized and viewed normally.
I don't know about 44mp sensors but I think this would be overkill for many people who only end up viewing on screen or producing less than massive prints.