The Nikon D400.......

[GoLotus]

.....and its MIA status. As a long term D300 and D330S user I've come to a bit of a crossroads and its probably time to stop waiting for the D400. I've narrowed by choices down to two options, the D7200 and the D750.

Just about everything I do involves a longer distance but the money isn't there for long lenses the "reach" the D7200 has over the D750 is an important factor, as is the cropability of both. But how does the crop mode of the D750 compare? Is the D750 a real "two cameras in one" type machine? And what about the crop mode of the D7200? Is this a feature worth having?

 

[boyfalldown]

if you were going for the two cameras in one I'd look for a d8xx rather then a d7xx. That gives you lots more pixels in the crop, and you can pick up bargin d800s at the mo

 

[GoLotus]

I see where you're coming from, but I ruled the D8** out because of the relatively low FPS

 

[Swanseajack]

Need to check the specs, but I believe some of the D8** also have a larger buffer capacity so in some ways they even out the FPS. And I think one of them can go to 8FPS with a grip.

 

[BillN_33]

.....and its MIA status. As a long term D300 and D330S user I've come to a bit of a crossroads and its probably time to stop waiting for the D400. I've narrowed by choices down to two options, the D7200 and the D750.

Just about everything I do involves a longer distance but the money isn't there for long lenses the "reach" the D7200 has over the D750 is an important factor, as is the cropability of both. But how does the crop mode of the D750 compare? Is the D750 a real "two cameras in one" type machine? And what about the crop mode of the D7200? Is this a feature worth having?

I take a lot of small bird shots and after the "novelty" wore off, after about a week, I never use the crop mode, (x 1.3), on the D7100 .......it is only a digital crop and you may loose what could be an important part of the image.

D7200 v D750 - It would depend on the high ISO performance and speed of the AF system - I've just bought the D750 and am very pleased with it although I have not used it at all for birds yet, (maybe this week on the end of my 600mm)

 

[gramps]

I take a lot of small bird shots and after the "novelty" wore off, after about a week, I never use the crop mode, (x 1.3), on the D7100 .......it is only a digital crop and you may loose what could be an important part of the image.

Interesting you say that Bill as I have only just got a D7100 and I've used the 1.3 crop on it quite effectively.
In that mode it gives a very usable 15Mb and used with my Tamron 150-600 I like it for wildlife - I have put it into 'U1' - with my D4/D4S in DX mode I'm getting just over 6Mb so there is quite a difference.

I've just bought the D750 and am very pleased with it although I have not used it at all for birds yet, (maybe this week on the end of my 600mm)

Look forward to seeing your results Bill, so far we only seem to be seeing weird wedding shots!

 

[BillN_33]

Interesting you say that Bill as I have only just got a D7100 and I've used the 1.3 crop on it quite effectively.
In that mode it gives a very usable 15Mb and used with my Tamron 150-600 I like it for wildlife - I have put it into 'U1' - with my D4/D4S in DX mode I'm getting just over 6Mb so there is quite a difference.



Look forward to seeing your results Bill, so far we only seem to be seeing weird wedding shots!

Morning Roger ......I suppose flicking in and out of the mode using the front button I found a little distracting - obviously you know were you are when you look through the VF ...... but I think that I was never quite sure some days
I did notice that I took shots in the x 1.3 mode and thought that I was in the full mode and therefore chopped bits off the image that I thought that i had
I just bit the bullet and upgraded the RAM in my older computers and have now bought another ....... the way things are going with image sizes and processing .......... it's forcing you into computer and Hard disk upgrades

The light has been hopeless so far this week ........ it's been cold and I have spent most of the time stacking wood deliveries and chain sawing the bloody stuff, no fun at my age ........ we have no central heating only 3 wood burning stoves

maybe get out today

 

[rpsmith79]

I was in a similar boat, i had a D300 up until around 18 months ago and decided to go FF with the D700, which worked well in most situations, but the lack of reach meant i ended up back with a crop sensor in the form of the D7100, which when combined with a relatively cheap (in terms of long fast primes) 300mm f4 works an absolute treat, even with the 1.4x TC attached

And i too find the Crop mode useful for upping the FPS when shooting smaller subjects

It's about time Nikon realises that FF isn't for everyone, but with the lack of D300 replacement it seems they want to force their loyal customers down the FF route if they want a well built, high FPS wildlife body

 

[BillN_33]

I was in a similar boat, i had a D300 up until around 18 months ago and decided to go FF with the D700, which worked well in most situations, but the lack of reach meant i ended up back with a crop sensor in the form of the D7100, which when combined with a relatively cheap (in terms of long fast primes) 300mm f4 works an absolute treat, even with the 1.4x TC attached

And i too find the Crop mode useful for upping the FPS when shooting smaller subjects

It's about time Nikon realises that FF isn't for everyone, but with the lack of D300 replacement it seems they want to force their loyal customers down the FF route if they want a well built, high FPS wildlife body

Rich, I think that Nikon have decided that if you what a "semi pro" DX body ....... you have to buy a FF body and shoot in DX mode ..... that's it

Interesting to see what people think of the D7200, but the upgrade from the D7100 looks minimal to me

 

[rpsmith79]

Rich, I think that Nikon have decided that if you what a "semi pro" DX body ....... you have to buy a FF body and shoot in DX mode ..... that's it

Interesting to see what people think of the D7200, but the upgrade from the D7100 looks minimal to me

It does seem so, but that won't convince me to buy one, not at the huge price differential and to be shooting most of the time in a cropped mode

It's like buying Ferrari and only using it to pop to the shops in

 

[SFTPhotography]

Other than the lay out why wouldn't a D7XXX work fine. All it is are the controls are a little different but if you need the reach over the 35mm format they are great. I borrowed a D7100 a while back and thought it great.

 

[BillN_33]

Other than the lay out why wouldn't a D7XXX work fine. All it is are the controls are a little different but if you need the reach over the 35mm format they are great. I borrowed a D7100 a while back and thought it great.

I just think that for birding Nikon need to put better low light performance, the best AF system and improve the fps in a DX body ...... the articulated screen is also useful ........ in LV on a tripod it helps

so far I have found these on the D750 to be a big improvement on what the D7100 has

 

[Swanseajack]

Another one who found the crop mode useful on the D7100. I only had the D750 a week (faulty) so didn't try it that much on that camera. Have ordered a replacement which will be here Monday and will give it a good run out. To me, if it's there and of some benefit, use it.

 

[Mikechappers]

I used my D750 last weekend for the first time for birds, made a schoolboy error with it by using to slow a shutter speed, ( combination of bad eyesight and getting easily confused due to a mini stroke a while back, its ok im not after any sympathy ) I used one of the crop modes, dunno which now. I have programed my D750 to switch from full frame to crop by using the front Fn button an scroll wheel, so can easily swop even while holding the camera with the Nikon 500mm lens up to my eye. Don't ask how I did it please, I found out how to online, no idea where now, all the Exif on the shots is there to see.

The results can be seen in my Flickr link https://www.flickr.com/photos/90652257@N05/ if anyone wants to have a look, the Peregrine shot is a huge crop, but im quite happy with the results, the D750 shots are the first three at the top of the page, other than cropping these have had minimal editing.

All I can say is that at present im loving it for birds.

 

[rpsmith79]

I suppose it all comes down to what lenses the OP has (or could afford to buy), as he mentions lack of funding for long reach lenses

As Mike has shown, you can get good results from an FX body in Crop mode, but he was also using a 500mm f4 lens...... hardly a cheap lens by any stretch of the imagination

So IMO the decision on camera body will ultimately come down to the lenses you can afford to put on the end of it

As with myself, i will never be able to afford (nor be able to justify) spending what i deem "silly money" (circa £1k) on a single camera lens, so for me on a reasonably "budget" setup (as far as serious wildlife photograhy goes), the D7100 and the 300mm f4 make for a really nice combination

 

[SFTPhotography]

I just think that for birding Nikon need to put better low light performance, the best AF system and improve the fps in a DX body ...... the articulated screen is also useful ........ in LV on a tripod it helps

so far I have found these on the D750 to be a big improvement on what the D7100 has

Ok the 7100 isn't at high ISO as good as a larger sensor, but its ok, you have these fast big primes so I cannot imagine you struggling with that rig. AF will improve, hopefully on the 7200 and it will get the bendy screen too.

For long range stuff, its as good as it gets unless you crop a D8x0 file. Not tried a D750 yet...

 

[gramps]

the D7100 and the 300mm f4 make for a really nice combination

There are an awful lot of truly excellent images being taken with that very combination

 

[Gremlin]

I bought the D7100 a while back as a 2nd body to my D300, still hoping at the time for a D400.
I now use it most of the time, the 1.3 crop comes in handy if you stay withing the the grid shown
I use it mainly with 80/400 and find it a superb combination for my needs, mostly wildlife and zoos
the AF is great even at low light
I have no plans to upgrade to the D7200, it doesn't offer enough for me to spend the money, rarely
use fast FPS so buffer not a problem
Would I move to full frame, I very much doubt it

 

[005269]

I shoot with a D7100, D700 combo. I find the 1.3 crop mode very useful. The iso performance of full frame in poor light is undoubtedly better, however take a 300mm F4 which on DX in 1.3 crop gives you a 15mp image equivalent to 600mm at F4. Now get to 600mm on full frame, easily done with tc's but you loose optical quality, 2 stops minimum therefore cancelling out pretty much your iso performance improvement, likewise DX crop mode will leave you short at 450mm approx. The 7100 sensor renders fine detail better than the D700 IMHO as well, can't speak for a newer FX sensor. Like everyone else I'd snap up a pro spec DX D400 but no one at Nikon seems to be listening

 

[GoLotus]

I take a lot of small bird shots and after the "novelty" wore off, after about a week, I never use the crop mode, (x 1.3), on the D7100 .......it is only a digital crop and you may loose what could be an important part of the image.

I believe using the D7200 in crop mode helps the FPS rate? I was also wondering how crop mode works with regards to what you see through the view finder, guessing the view doesn't actually change and you just have to use the centre area?

 

[BillN_33]

I believe using the D7200 in crop mode helps the FPS rate? I was also wondering how crop mode works with regards to what you see through the view finder, guessing the view doesn't actually change and you just have to use the centre area?

the x1.3 crop frame is highlighted in the VF

 

[GoLotus]

Rich, I think that Nikon have decided that if you what a "semi pro" DX body ....... you have to buy a FF body and shoot in DX mode ..... that's it

Yup, that's what I'm beginning to think. Does anyone know what the pixel count is for the D750 in crop mode?

Interesting to see what people think of the D7200, but the upgrade from the D7100 looks minimal to me

Yup, I can't see that too many with a D7100 will be upgrading to a D7200

 

[minnnt]

You get a smaller image denoted by guidelines within the VF... I always thought it to be a bit gimmicky as you might aswell just crop in PP... I also found it hard to frame an image, always worried about chopping off an arm or wing etc. Some people find it useful but i was not one.

 

[gramps]

I was also wondering how crop mode works with regards to what you see through the view finder, guessing the view doesn't actually change and you just have to use the centre area?

A grid comes into view, much like an unfilled border around the viewfinder

 

[GoLotus]

I suppose it all comes down to what lenses the OP has (or could afford to buy), as he mentions lack of funding for long reach lenses{/quote}

I've got the 70-200 2.8 VRII and use it regularly with the TC20. Have been thinking about the 300 F4, but not sure how well that would work with the TC20, and in any case, with the TC1.4 its not really all that far different from what the 70-200 with TC20 gives me at the long end?

Would love to have something bigger and better, but its not going to happen.

 

[rpsmith79]

I had a 1.7x tc and never rated it with the 300mm f4, so I suspect the 2x would be worse still, but that is pure speculation

 

[GoLotus]

I had a 1.7x tc and never rated it with the 300mm f4, so I suspect the 2x would be worse still, but that is pure speculation

I did wonder if it would work better with the new sensors and AF systems, but its a big ask to go putting the TC20 onto the 300 F4

 

[rpsmith79]

I believe it will physically work as the D7100 will focus at f8, but only on the centre focus spot

I just found the degradation in IQ with the 1.7x not worth the extra reach it got me, I get better IQ using a 1.4x and cropping

 

[GoLotus]

I believe it will physically work as the D7100 will focus at f8, but only on the centre focus spot

I just found the degradation in IQ with the 1.7x not worth the extra reach it got me, I get better IQ using a 1.4x and cropping

I can well believe that, is it that Nikon 1.4 you've got or a Kenko?

 

[rpsmith79]

Both are Nikon's, though I have since sold the 1.7 as I rarely used it

 

[gramps]

I had a 1.7x tc and never rated it with the 300mm f4, so I suspect the 2x would be worse still, but that is pure speculation

Don't underestimate the new TC-20III, it is far better than the old TC-20II

 

[GoLotus]

Don't underestimate the new TC-20III, it is far better than the old TC-20II

That's interesting to know, its the TC20II that I've got. The 1.4 is a Kenko

 

[posiview]

On a bit of a whim (can you have such ), I bought a D750 and 24-70....yup, won't really improve my photography, but they are gorgeous

Cheers.

 

[OldCarlos]

You get a smaller image denoted by guidelines within the VF... I always thought it to be a bit gimmicky as you might aswell just crop in PP... I also found it hard to frame an image, always worried about chopping off an arm or wing etc. Some people find it useful but i was not one.

Agree.

Providing your PC/laptop can handle the larger files, which you're gonna crop anyway, you're just as well shooting full frame, then cropping in later. Less chance of missing part of the image + much easier to re-compose. (the FPS/buffer is negligible imho & if that is the priority you really should have the pro-wildlife body)

 

[GoLotus]

On a bit of a whim (can you have such ), I bought a D750 and 24-70....yup, won't really improve my photography, but they are gorgeous

Cheers.

The 24-70 has been on my shopping list for a long time now but there always seems to be something else to get first. One of these days.........

 

[posiview]

The 24-70 has been on my shopping list for a long time now but there always seems to be something else to get first. One of these days.........

I'd be interested to know what you've bought instead of the 24-70.

Cheers.

 

[GoLotus]

I'd be interested to know what you've bought instead of the 24-70.

Cheers.

I haven't! There are so few occasions when I've thought I needed it that I just haven't worried about it enough to take the plunge

 

[flavio]

Stop wasting time waiting for a D400, a D7100 or D7200 will obliterate the image quality from your D300/300s.
I use full frame and DX, some of the images I've got from my D7100 with good glass are quite remarkable.
Remember the D7100/D7200 dx bodies are equivalent to a full frame camera of over 50mp so quality lenses will reap great benefits.

cheers
Tony

 

[rpsmith79]

Don't underestimate the new TC-20III, it is far better than the old TC-20II

That's interesting to know, its the TC20II that I've got. The 1.4 is a Kenko

Will the TC-20III work with the older 300mm f4 ED, i know the newer TC-14III doesn't (or at least Nikon states it will not work with it)

 

[BillN_33]

Will the TC-20III work with the older 300mm f4 ED, i know the newer TC-14III doesn't (or at least Nikon states it will not work with it)

I have one and it does although the IQ suffers - I tend to use the TC20Elll with the Nikon 300mm f2.8 VR and the TC14Ell with the f4