The old 'Silverstone isn't very good from spectator side' ruse: still true?

[minimangler]

PLEASE NOTE: I have used other people's images to help make my point, and have credited them appropriately. If this is illegal, mods, let me know or take this down. Thanks.

I've noticed people are starting to warm towards the new layout at Silverstone, and some people have gone as far as saying it's improved. I'd like to just add that I'm not trying to take aim at anyone here or bash anyone's skill, I'm simply pointing out that whining about the track layout is just not a valid argument! Of course, we'd all rather be shooting at Spa, but sometimes we have to shoot at Silverstone!

However, some (Coopers is one example) have said it is 'harder and harder' to get some good angles. So I'll start with some of his stuff from the ILMC, which I thought was actually very impressive and I found it hard to tell whether he was a paying spectator or an accredited photographer.

This one, particularly, impressed me. For a spectator to be able to get this low down is incredibly rare and the result is absolutely superb.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/cooper1275/Le Mans series/IMG_7436.jpg

Similarly, he's done a fantastic job with his panning, too, using two planes of movement to help out.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/cooper1275/Le Mans series/IMG_7609.jpg

The new Arena section is great for am togs as well. There's a window in the fence (though if you're going to use it, only use it for a few minutes because there's always a queue and you'll end up with 500 fairly boring head ons if you don't move!), and various angles to look at.

Richard Crawford shows, again, that getting low is a real help, and even at a fairly restrained shutter speed the pan shot looks impressive.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6171/6144265879_5a39f4dc75_b.jpg

One photographer gaining himself quite a reputation (and sure for big things, I hope) is Adam Pigott, and not only is he a nice bloke but he's not afraid to get on his feet and walk around. I'm a big advocate of moving around the circuit to see what you can see, and he must be one of a very limited number of people to have bothered going to Stowe outside; here's why.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6190/6140992735_4e439030a8_z.jpg

This is one I've never seen before, and it's bloody awesome. Again, lie, kneel, sit, crouch; just get down lower!

Back to Mr Crawford, and he shows that if you've got a giant lens, use it. Shooting through fence head on is brave, but when it works it really works. This is the Becketts complex.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6177/6144267897_f2708a5d64_b.jpg

The other thing you can do is try opening your wide angle! Here's one from the bank at Club back in June.

 

[minimangler]

And if you can't be arsed to walk, then how about shooting through stuff? I'm resorting to a couple of my own photos here but only because it's far easier than trawling through TP threads.
Abbey Grandstands

Becketts

A valiant effort from DJ Choc Ice (Ste Hodges)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6152/6144912128_22c7631428.jpg

And another that caught my eye but perhaps isn't quite right from Adam Pigott
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6158/6141009699_9b7f83e918_z.jpg

I'm interested to think what you guys reckon to this, and also if you have any more to show. There are definitely places to shoot at Silverstone.

 

[jurbie]

I definitely agree with you Jake and I actually think the new loop which includes several photo slits is a vast improvement but generally Silverstone has never been as bad as people make out.













All of these were shot through a fence.

 

[jdfotos]

I'd agree too - there are plenty of opportunities, especially with the new International Straight stands, and the new bits at Village. Yes, its annoying that the fences are there and you cant get the access you want, but you can make the most of it. Luffield has given me a few shots, you just have to be aware of the fence tops!! My photos from Le Mans here.

 

[dj choc ice]

The new circuit is better, yes we have lost one or two places but we have gained in others. I find myself shooting through fences pretty much all the time now. For all the slating it gets from tog's, Silverstone isn't that bad. If you want to know bad, go to Rockingham.

Here are a few more from the weekend at Silverstone.

[/url] DSC_2121 by S-Hodges., on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url] DSC_2661 by S-Hodges., on Flickr[/IMG]

At Silverstone, due to it being flat though, a little bit of imagination does certainly help IMO.

 

[minimangler]

All of these were shot through a fence.

Wow. Just... Wow.

Is the Merc Stowe?

 

[Speedster502]

Thanks for the honorable mention, I appreciate it. And yes, my shot through the grandstand isn't amazing compared to others, I think I picked thickest barred grandstand out there!

I'm also fully behind the idea of this thread! I've never understood the 'Silverstone Hate', it was unjustified in my opinion as I've always quite liked the track and just seems to have improved in recent years. More so now than ever before!

I think that Silverstone have embraced the fact that amateur photographers used to struggle to get decent shots. Around the circuit various photo holes have been opened up (that I'm sure didn't used to be there!) that the public can conveniently access!

Also echoing the point of walking around, I really do recommend it. Driving round a circuit (perimeter road, if you can) isn't the same as walking the whole thing. You miss angles, and other little things that can make for really cool shots! The only downside is that you can end up walking miles! I was there for all 3 days and ended up walking about 9.5 miles just on race day (about 21ish miles over the whole weekend).

I thought I'd throw a couple of my favourite angles from Silverstone that Jake hadn't mentioned.



The photo hole near Copse is still one of my favourite areas to photograph at, I don't care if it's been done a million times a quick 5 minutes here never does any harm.



On the run into the 'Arena'/'Village'/'Whatever' is one area that I particularly love. I first discovered it at FIA GT1 and I'm sure it has more potential with someone with a bigger lens or even...media access.



Whilst this might not be an amazing photograph (hundreds of people have done it better), it does prove you don't need a massive lens at Silverstone anymore. As some of you probably know, I run on pretty basic kit (a 55-250mm being my primary lens) and this was taken at 250mm, with no crop. So a 55-250mm is plenty enough at some areas of Silverstone these days!



I'll end by saying that the new Arena has really opened up the angles for Silverstone, I personally really enjoy going there and I truly believe the ruse has been well and truly broken!

That said, it does make your wonder...Has Silverstone got better, or have people got more creative in trying to find decent angles there? :shrug:

Also...I made a guide awhile back which gives a more detailed break down of the circuit (including my own shots from various points around the circuit which may give some of you ideas!).

#Shameless Plug

 

[ukaskew]

I've always enjoyed shooting at Silverstone and have never felt too limited in terms of options. However the annoying thing for me is inconsistency in angles available, you can find a great angle at one event and then it's strictly off-limits at the next...very frustrating when you've walked a mile to get to it (and safety isn't the issue as far as I can tell as these aren't dangerous positions). At the FIA GT a while back myself and a friend spent the day there, we went our seperate ways and when I went to meet up later I was stopped from entering the area that he and a bunch of other guys were already in!

 

[RichardC27]

Thanks for the honourable mention Jake. I think the new arena section has definitely opened up some new angles and opportunities. I did get moved on by a very pushy marshal for using a couple of the photo holes at the exit of The Loop though, so if you're going to use them be quick!

 

[jurbie]

Wow. Just... Wow.

Is the Merc Stowe?

Thankyou and yes from about halfway between Stowe and Vale. It's not an obvious place to go to but like Adam I found it just by walking the circuit and checking for angles. I would recommend a 500mm though.

 

[DucDuc]

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=351851

Here are a few of mine from a recent day at SS where my conclusion was, there are several places for a good look at the action without looking through the catch fence. I wish I was staying in the UK longer so I could go back again.

 

[RobertP]

This thread has been reported and rightly so....

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Please change all IMG tags to URL ones so the images do not show but links can be clicked to see them on the owners server.

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[Byker28i]

I went up for the F1 grand prix friday practice, walked the whole circuit inside and out looking for good positions.

Inside the circuit at Village corner there's a 4 inch gap in the fence where it changes type, just enough to get a lens poking through. Being a shorty I had to find a couple of bricks to stand on.

Again on the inside, a bit further along between the loop and village is a camera gap. For the F1 they had a crane camera here, leaving the slot open, good for panning and the exit from the loop. I didn't get here until the GP2 practice as it was busy.

On the corner of the loop is another gap. There was a marshal here but he let me shoot through the gap.

Further along there is another camera gap with a raised platform, but that was restricted to accredited togs/broadcast cameras.

Walking further towards Farm, there's an access gate and you can shoot over the top there, but it seemed very popular with photographers. I preferred to walk further along onto the raised grass banking and shoot over the fence, you get great panning and the pit exit:

 

[Byker28i]

Lots more of my attempts here
http://www.pbase.com/byker28i/ukgp2011&page=all

 

[minimangler]

This thread has been reported and rightly so....

You can post links to other photographers images but you can not show the images in a thread here without their permission.

Please change all IMG tags to URL ones so the images do not show but links can be clicked to see them on the owners server.

The thread will be removed if not edited.

That seems a bit crazy, as I was making a point and stated very clearly they were not my photos. Had I done a thread using only my own photos that might be a little bit arrogant... :shrug:

 

[nate93]

This thread has been reported and rightly so....

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Please change all IMG tags to URL ones so the images do not show but links can be clicked to see them on the owners server.

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Most of the photographers who have had there images posted by jake have posted in the thread and not expressed any problem with him posting, its clearly stated they are NOT Jakes photos...whats the problem?

On topic...Very good thread Jake, as well as proving the ruse is not valid, its give some good ideas to those of us who havent had the practice or the chance to shoot lots at silverstone!

 

[coopers]

Interesting thread....
Thanks for the mention Jake...
I think I'm just being super critical on myself when I say "its getting harder and harder to get decent angles"...yes there there,but I was hoping for lots of new oportunities to open up,agree some have but as mentioned above they do seem to be available on some days and not others... saw one or two irrate discusions at said meet regarding spectators around the new arena section.so not sure if this area will remain fully open to spectators opr not,I have recently mailed Silverstone regarding this viewing area and was pleased to see the photo slots opened up,but some meetings it still seems to a bit hit or miss....
Would contribute some pics to this thread,but away from home on laptop this week...
Clive.

 

[Speedster502]

This thread has been reported and rightly so....

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I'm afraid I agree with both Jake and Nate93, everyone whose shots have been mentioned (Richard, Myself, Coopers, S-Hodges) have posted thanking Jake for the honorable mention. Jake also credited all of us in a professional manner, so what's the issue exactly?

Back on topic, nice to see others with interesting angles from Silverstone - I also agree with what Coopers is saying about some angles being there at one event then not at the next. It was this exact same situation at GT1 that caused me problems, they allowed me and my friends to walk around the 'Arena' section during GT3/Blancpain Super Trofeo but as soon as GT1 came on we weren't allowed to walk round and had to catch a bus to get to the paddock. Confusing to say the least.

I really liked the way they ran the system at ILMC, there were shuttles for those who wanted one (albeit no public on the Friday and there was a distinct bias towards media/VIP shuttles) it allowed people who wanted to literally see the paddock to head that way via shuttle and allowed others to properly experience the Arena section. Some bits need to be improved around there (such as where the shorter track runs - I think they need to put a more substantial fence there rather than just saying 'No Spectating' which would allow Am photographers to get that angle without being told off). As well as clearly pointing out that you can walk across the helicopter zone to cut across to the Hangar Straight (there's even a grandstand that direction).

Also props to Jurek, some epic shots in that selection!

 

[ukaskew]

I get the feeling they 'do what they have to' for spectators and very little else, particularly at smaller events. I haven't attended since the FIA GT and things were a joke then, quite frankly. 30 minutes to get from the grandstand in front of the Wing to the Wing itself on a bus...yet media/team shuttles were flying past empty all the time.

For I don't know how many years running they've yet again gone with the confusing Britcar ticket options (apparently the car park closes at 10pm, handy for a 24hr race!), you can buy a Saturday ticket or a Sunday ticket, surely you could buy a Saturday one and just stay?! I know plenty of people have emailed them every year about this but they never do anything.

 

[RobertP]

If images are posted without the owners permission then displaying them becomes TP's copyright breach problem. With the owners permission all is fine.

I don't visit this section of the forum and acted on reports received. A simple view of the first posts confirmed someone else's images on show and no permission obvious.

Make it clear the images are shown with permission and it will not get reported in the first place.

 

[minimangler]

On topic, I agree in principal about the Arena but I saw am togs (who, remember, have signed no waiver) in photo holes and leaning on the wall that separates them from the cars. It's one of the big no nos as an accredited photographer and it's downright dangerous; there's too little protection in the Arena for it to be open to spectators IMHO.

And to those complaining about the regularity of shuttles for media + VIPs; largely they are used by teams and media, both of whom have a job to do. I don't wanna sound like a dick but at the end of the day, I have had a number of occasions this season when I wouldn't have time to stand in a huge queue for a bus when I can grab a shuttle. It's that or I miss the photo and don't get paid.

Back on topic; can anyone beat Jurek for 'best angle speccy side at Silverstone'?

 

[desantnik]

I don't think any circuit is "impossible" its just that some are easier than others.

If you work hard enough and get creative with your shots, you can make a purse from a sows ear.... however Silverstone won't give it to you on a plate - not even from trackside (as I am about to prove this weekend with BSB!)

Good thread though, I hope it provides inspiration to many - which is what TP should be about.

 

[minimangler]

If you work hard enough and get creative with your shots, you can make a purse from a sows ear.... however Silverstone won't give it to you on a plate - not even from trackside (as I am about to prove this weekend with BSB!)

Should've seen Adam's face when he saw me lying down by the barriers...

 

[desantnik]

Lying down! Good grief man, watch yourself or you'll get your mini mangled!

 

[Speedster502]

Should've seen Adam's face when he saw me lying down by the barriers...

To be fair, as soon as I saw a media person lying down near the armco I figured it was probably you!

Personally, I don't feel so comfortable about lying down whilst being trackside at the moment, whether it's because I'm being too cautious as I'm new to the whole 'nothing but armco separating me and the cars' or something I'm not sure. That said I attempted lying down at Stowe...and discovered a) it's too low to make a decent shot b) tarmac hurts.

Also regarding the shuttle buses...I wasn't complaining that there was a bias to the Media/VIP. Simply pointing it out. Although it would have been nice to have had more than one public shuttle every 20 minutes or so.

 

[minimangler]

Lying down! Good grief man, watch yourself or you'll get your mini mangled!

Only where I won't get killed...

 

[ukaskew]

Although it's an obvious point to make I find the stands good fun at Silverstone. As somebody who attends Castle Combe at least 20 times a year it's quite a novelty to a) sit in a seat and b) find some really high angles.

Although as with everything at Silverstone...you never know what will be open to the public on a given raceday.

I also second the 'jurbie gap' on the new pit straight...

Is it still there? It was (obviously) closed for F1, and even at the FIA GT quali I got the feeling the marshals never seemed quite sure if anyone should be there (even though it's incredibly safe).

 

[desantnik]

Only where I won't get killed...

Most of us have learnt thats pretty much anywhere...

 

[jurbie]

I also second the 'jurbie gap' on the new pit straight...

Is it still there? It was (obviously) closed for F1, and even at the FIA GT quali I got the feeling the marshals never seemed quite sure if anyone should be there (even though it's incredibly safe).

At last some recognition!

I guess you're refering to the access to the marshalls post however I think the better angle is actually a bit further down directly infront of the stand which is where I took the shot I posted. I was trackside at the LMS and I did shoot some stuff from that marshalls post however I also shot through the fence at the other spot maybe 10 metres away as it gives some good angles through Club and onto the straight. There is also a rather well hidden photography slit a little further along just before the next marshall post access. I don't know how accessable that one is as there is a fence next to it which has been trampled down. Once that is fixed then unless you can use the marshalls access under the stand then it will be gone.

 

[yamahatdm900]

After just spending the weekend at Silverstone for the BSB I do have to agree with most of the comments expressed so far, there are some very good shots to be had but you do have to work hard to get them.
My biggest gripe has already been said and thats the inconsistency in where you can and can't go.
It does invole a lot of walking - for example Sunday which i would call a typically day for me involved walking from the car park down round the outside of Club, Stowe cross the bridge by the porcshe centre up to the new arena section, up to Luffield down the National st, down to Becketts acroos the bridge again by the Porchse centre. Down to the inside of Vale and finally back up to Luffield and the car park.
I must say I don't agree with you totally Jake when you say that the Arena section is unsafe for speccy side, personally where they have permant catch fencing with the guard rail behind it I can't see a problem, where they have a problem is where there is the movable? fencing (the stuff with red and white bottoms on it).

 

[SamP]

I got some decent shots at 6 hours? Only had my 50mm with me though, went to see cars go past not shoot pictures

Guess it depends how far you're willing to walk really? Ive been a few times, and everytime I go there im still stunned by the size of the place. Its ****ing HUGE!

 

[minimangler]

I must say I don't agree with you totally Jake when you say that the Arena section is unsafe for speccy side, personally where they have permant catch fencing with the guard rail behind it I can't see a problem, where they have a problem is where there is the movable? fencing (the stuff with red and white bottoms on it).

If a spectator who has signed no waiver and is uninsured is poking their lens through fence with nothing between it and car, that's dangerous full stop.

 

[desantnik]

I think you need to understand what your insurance policy and waiver is all about... it protects you not one jot.

All it does do is to protect others from you suing them... perhaps.

Its not about "safety" or "danger" lol

 

[yamahatdm900]

If a spectator who has signed no waiver and is uninsured is poking their lens through fence with nothing between it and car, that's dangerous full stop.

Im not saying its not, but we are talking about different things here, the point I was trying to make that a lot of the arena section has permant crash fencing and a barrier behind that, when someone is stood behind the barrier and shooting through the fence In those areas i cant see its any different to most of the course.

Quick edit. To be honest I don't think I made my point clear in the first post. While i would agree with you about the leaning on fences etc.. point I was just trying to say that most of the arena section does have proper crash fencing and barriers ans I couldn't see the difference between these areas and the rest of the course

 

[starkersclark]

I've personally always thought Silverstone was pretty good from a specator side and now I believe it's even better. It just about thinking outside the box and some of the pictures posted here have given me some new ideas for next time!

 

[minimangler]

I think you need to understand what your insurance policy and waiver is all about... it protects you not one jot.

All it does do is to protect others from you suing them... perhaps.

Its not about "safety" or "danger" lol

I mean from the circuit's perspective; I have insurance for when something happens with me

 

[ukaskew]

A couple of questions for you regular Silverstone shooters, as I spent 6hrs walking solidly around the circuit yesterday/today and I'm a little confused...

1. When shooting through fences, are you guys standing within the barriers? I only came across one place where the barrier is close enough to the fence to comfortably blur it out at most focal lengths. 90% of amatuers shooting at the Britcar were stood between the fence and the barrier, however I got the impression this was only because there was no one there to tell them not to.

2. When people talk about the new shooting opportunities in the Arena, where on earth do you mean? I walked every accessible inch of the circuit and I usually have a good eye for an angle, but I didn't see too much. As far as unfenced panning went it was a choice between the Luffield banking, the straight between Copse and Maggots etc (if you're tall!), over the fence at Stowe and also at Vale.

The bit I don't get is the access gate (just a roads width) where the circuit is at its narrowest point between Becketts etc and The Loop that takes you into the upper infield section (and eventually to the rear of the Wing). I checked again and was told it was out of bounds, yet some of these angles in this thread appear to be from within that particular zone.

The area in front of the Wing Grandstand (where you could shoot at ground level in front of the new pit straight) is completely closed off now, by the way.

 

[Speedster502]

A couple of questions for you regular Silverstone shooters, as I spent 6hrs walking solidly around the circuit yesterday/today and I'm a little confused...

I'm not a regular to Silverstone but....

1. When shooting through fences, are you guys standing within the barriers? I only came across one place where the barrier is close enough to the fence to comfortably blur it out at most focal lengths. 90% of amatuers shooting at the Britcar were stood between the fence and the barrier, however I got the impression this was only because there was no one there to tell them not to.

I always stand behind the barrier I'm supposed to be behind as a spectator. I know loads of people decided to go up against the chain link fence in some areas at BritCar but it's not particularly neccessary and it's there for a reason at the end of the day.

2. When people talk about the new shooting opportunities in the Arena, where on earth do you mean? I walked every accessible inch of the circuit and I usually have a good eye for an angle, but I didn't see too much. As far as unfenced panning went it was a choice between the Luffield banking, the straight between Copse and Maggots etc (if you're tall!), over the fence at Stowe and also at Vale.

The bit I don't get is the access gate (just a roads width) where the circuit is at its narrowest point between Becketts etc and The Loop that takes you into the upper infield section (and eventually to the rear of the Wing). I checked again and was told it was out of bounds, yet some of these angles in this thread appear to be from within that particular zone.

The area in front of the Wing Grandstand (where you could shoot at ground level in front of the new pit straight) is completely closed off now, by the way.

The Arena does open up new shooting angles, panning wise I will admit your limited in what you can do. But in terms of race shots some nice shots can be taken.

To be honest, as a spectator at Silverstone I think you have to just embrace that your going to get shots with fence in. Work with it - pan with the fence but at such a slow shutter speed that it actually adds to the work.

As we said before, the problem is that at the current moment in time there will never be a definitive guide to Silverstone (the one I made awhile back is/has been for quite some time been out of date), it's just the nature of the evolving circuit. In it's defence, BritCar 24H was using the old pits due to various reasons and that is probably one of the reasons you couldn't access some of the angles.