The virus. PPE. Part 1

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sphexx said:
HMG are abandoning the R number because they have found out it’s difficult to calculate :(. I‘ve just watched Kay Burley (in Liverpool) interviewing a gov Minister asking why it was safe to re-open there while R is above 1 and that was basically what he said in his non-answer :(

I heard Johnson havering around 1 metre and 2 metres yesterday and talking about “statistics”, on which he seems to be an expert :).
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KitsuneAndy said:
More like they're abandoning it because it's going to go up and they don't want anyone to know.
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Like every other measurement the government has used that has been critical to their planning? once it doesn't give them the answer they want it just gets dropped and is no longer relevant.
 
cambsno said:
NZ is totally different - for a start its a destination and 'hard' to get to other than Australia - and the population is a tenth if that of UK - not comparable at all.
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But still we come back to the example of South Korea - over 50 million people in a densely populated democracy with many transport links to China. Early and aggressive use of test, trace and isolate, with universal use of masks, frequent temperature checks, and quarantine for new arrivals brought a medium-sized national epidemic under control, so that it never became a large one. Six months in, they have 277 deaths (5 per million). We know what works.
 
Retune said:
But still we come back to the example of South Korea - over 50 million people in a densely populated democracy with many transport links to China. Early and aggressive use of test, trace and isolate, with universal use of masks, frequent temperature checks, and quarantine for new arrivals brought a medium-sized national epidemic under control, so that it never became a large one. Six months in, they have 277 deaths (5 per million). We know what works.
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But the same could be said about Italy, France, Spain too as to why they didn’t follow the same path. Am not by any way suggesting we have handled it well, we haven’t, but SK had basically planned for this to happen since the sars outbreak. We along with many others didn’t.
 
tarric said:
Like every other measurement the government has used that has been critical to their planning? once it doesn't give them the answer they want it just gets dropped and is no longer relevant.
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I want to like your post, but it's actually pretty depressingly transparent, but still people praise them for it!
 
cambsno said:
But the same could be said about Italy, France, Spain too as to why they didn’t follow the same path. Am not by any way suggesting we have handled it well, we haven’t, but SK had basically planned for this to happen since the sars outbreak. We along with many others didn’t.
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SK was hardly touched by SARS (they had fewer cases than us), but did import a MERS outbreak from the Middle East - something the whole world should have learned from. Yes, we are in the same category as Italy, France and Spain, but other western countries have done substantially better (especially those that took notice of what was happening in Italy). SK avoided over 99% of the per capita deaths we have seen, but even Germany, which ramped up testing and locked down more quickly, managed to avoid over 80% of these deaths. According to Neil Ferguson, we might have cut the mortality figures in half if we had acted a week earlier.
 
mex said:
That's just f*****g great......got an email this morning.....redundant, as a result of the impact of Cv-19.
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Awww crap :( I hope you find something else soon, Nigel.

Bobsyeruncle said:
He didn't come up with a ludicrous story about testing if his cock still worked...
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Brilliant :LOL:
 
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mex said:
That's just f*****g great......got an email this morning.....redundant, as a result of the impact of Cv-19.
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Also, don't know what line of work you are in but if you need any help (like proof reading a CV) let me know - lots of experience in hiring for different types of companies and think I know what a CV should look like, or how to answer competency based questions etc...
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
That is true, and he did the honourable thing and resigned, after admitting his lover visited his home.
He didn't come up with a ludicrous story about testing if his cock still worked...
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This needs to go down as the best post in TP - ever!
 
cambsno said:
Also, don't know what line of work you are in but if you need any help (like proof reading a CV) let me know - lots of experience in hiring for different types of companies and think I know what a CV should look like, or how to answer competency based questions etc...
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appreciate that thanks.
 
RWDW said:
It also assumes that we could of locked down earlier - the UK has no means of enforcing any lockdown so it all relied on the will of the public; IMO the public would not have accepted it the week earlier (We struggled to accept it when it was actually introduced). You are actually posting links to an expert who didn't follow lockdown himself though.

That last point could be debated ad infinitum but again we will never know the answer so would be pointless.
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Well, Fraser the Third.

By SAGE's own admission the advice was flawed because it was based on the Govt shielding certain places, such as care homes.

The advice SAGE gave was based on the assumption that these protective rings would be in place even before the lockdown was put in place, thus stemming the flow to of infections to the most vulnerable.

If you are given advice that has pre-requisites attached, and you do not meet the pre-requisites beforehand, than you simply cannot be following the advice correctly, by anyone's definition
 
mex said:
That's just f*****g great......got an email this morning.....redundant, as a result of the impact of Cv-19.
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Very sorry to read this Nige. I can’t begin to imagine the stress that will cause. Make sure you get every benefit you’re entitled to . Many don’t claim their full entitlement because they’re unaware of some. Kind offer from Cambsno.

I’m hearing that many companies are making furloughed employees redundant. The country is going to wake up soon to the devastating effect, beyond the death toll, that this virus is having.
 
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mex said:
That's just f*****g great......got an email this morning.....redundant, as a result of the impact of Cv-19.
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That's really sh*tty, and to do it with an email. :(

Could they not have furloughed you for a month or two and give you some time? July still wouldn't cost them anything and August would be minimal.

Good luck with whatever may come your way, perhaps a new venture may now be possible? I'm sure plenty on here will be willing to help wherever possible.
 
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New Zealand was Covid19 free for 3 weeks, then:-

(WELLINGTON, New Zealand) — New Zealand is no longer free from the new coronavirus after health officials say two women who flew from London to see a dying parent had tested positive.

But before they were tested, the women had been given an exemption to leave quarantine on compassionate grounds and had traveled from Auckland to Wellington by car.

Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield said that as part of their travel plan, the women had no contact with any people or any public facilities on their road trip.

Nevertheless, the new cases have sparked a round of testing in New Zealand for anybody who might have been close to the women. That includes passengers and staff on their flights, which arrived via Brisbane in Australia, other people at the Auckland hotel they initially stayed at in quarantine, and a family member they met in Wellington.

https://time.com/5854108/new-zealand-not-coronavirus-free/

It's not over until it is over and even then it is not over !
 
arclight said:
New Zealand was Covid19 free for 3 weeks, then:-

(WELLINGTON, New Zealand) — New Zealand is no longer free from the new coronavirus after health officials say two women who flew from London to see a dying parent had tested positive.

But before they were tested, the women had been given an exemption to leave quarantine on compassionate grounds and had traveled from Auckland to Wellington by car.

Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield said that as part of their travel plan, the women had no contact with any people or any public facilities on their road trip.

Nevertheless, the new cases have sparked a round of testing in New Zealand for anybody who might have been close to the women. That includes passengers and staff on their flights, which arrived via Brisbane in Australia, other people at the Auckland hotel they initially stayed at in quarantine, and a family member they met in Wellington.

https://time.com/5854108/new-zealand-not-coronavirus-free/

It's not over until it is over and even then it is not over !
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And “perfect” NZ slipped up there by not testing them before they left on their drive to Wellington, though everything else was done securely it seems and it’s unlikely they infected anyone else on the way.
 
sphexx said:
And “perfect” NZ slipped up there by not testing them before they left on their drive to Wellington, though everything else was done securely it seems and it’s unlikely they infected anyone else on the way.
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Yes, they will probably be less compassionate in the future.
 
Interesting story from New Zeakand and illustrates how important proper quarantine rules are.

The account on the BBC News site includes -

"The women - one in their 30s and one in their 40s - arrived in New Zealand from the UK on the 7 June, via Doha and Brisbane, and entered quarantine.
They stayed in a managed isolation hotel in Auckland..... "

Why we don't do the same, given a lot of hotels close to airports and ports must be fairly empty now, instead of letting arrivals use public transport before they go into self isolation, is beyond me.

Dave
 
Tringa said:
Interesting story from New Zeakand and illustrates how important proper quarantine rules are.

The account on the BBC News site includes -

"The women - one in their 30s and one in their 40s - arrived in New Zealand from the UK on the 7 June, via Doha and Brisbane, and entered quarantine.
They stayed in a managed isolation hotel in Auckland..... "

Why we don't do the same, given a lot of hotels close to airports and ports must be fairly empty now, instead of letting arrivals use public transport before they go into self isolation, is beyond me.

Dave
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Because the NZ govt cares more about the people than the economy and the UK govt doesn't, I think is the simplistic answer.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Because the NZ govt cares more about the people than the economy and the UK govt doesn't, I think is the simplistic answer.
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To be fair the two go together - by looking after the people you reduce the transmission, hence can get closer to normality that does then help the economy.

But it is a balance - we know that a bad economy will cause a lot of misery and ultimately deaths so you have to take a broader view.
 
cambsno said:
To be fair the two go together - by looking after the people you reduce the transmission, hence can get closer to normality that does then help the economy.

But it is a balance - we know that a bad economy will cause a lot of misery and ultimately deaths so you have to take a broader view.
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View: https://BANNED/parodyhancock/status/1272835856177532928?s=21
 
This looks promising
View: https://mobile.BANNED/AP/status/1272869085169291264?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
 
jakeblu said:
This looks promising
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I was listening to this early, yes it sounds promising so fingers crossed (y)

I must say it sounds better than injecting disinfectant as I heard it turns your skin orange.
:D
 
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Allan.H said:
View: https://BANNED/parodyhancock/status/1272835856177532928?s=21
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You appear to have an objection to people making money and profit is a dirty word?
 
cambsno said:
To be fair the two go together - by looking after the people you reduce the transmission, hence can get closer to normality that does then help the economy.

But it is a balance - we know that a bad economy will cause a lot of misery and ultimately deaths so you have to take a broader view.
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And that's the problem IMO the government have gotten their response to coronavirus so wrong that not only have a large number of people died due to their incompetence but I fear the hit to the economy will also be amongst the worst of any developed country due to their ineptitude.
 
tarric said:
And that's the problem IMO the government have gotten their response to coronavirus so wrong that not only have a large number of people died due to their incompetence but I fear the hit to the economy will also be amongst the worst of any developed country due to their ineptitude.
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Agree- and the issue for me is not mistakes, we all make them, but the lack of humility or accountability in admitting it. Boris & co would get a lot more respect and understanding if they came out and said "it looks like we did get things wrong and not do X,Y,Z at the right times. We understand what we did wrong and lessons learnt from other countries. We have changed the way X, Y, Z operates and will be doing these things differently from now on".

This will get us away from questioning the past and allow us to focus on the future which we can influence. Banging on about lockdown happening a week earlier while true (and a focus of any inquiry), is pretty much pointless now as we cant change that.

Is there comparable data to compare us to other countries in what we have done re easing lockdown (i.e. France & Italy lifted shops being forced to shut when death rate was 10% of the deaths peak etc...)?
 
cambsno said:
Agree- and the issue for me is not mistakes, we all make them, but the lack of humility or accountability in admitting it. Boris & co would get a lot more respect and understanding if they came out and said "it looks like we did get things wrong and not do X,Y,Z at the right times. We understand what we did wrong and lessons learnt from other countries. We have changed the way X, Y, Z operates and will be doing these things differently from now on".

This will get us away from questioning the past and allow us to focus on the future which we can influence. Banging on about lockdown happening a week earlier while true (and a focus of any inquiry), is pretty much pointless now as we cant change that.

Is there comparable data to compare us to other countries in what we have done re easing lockdown (i.e. France & Italy lifted shops being forced to shut when death rate was 10% of the deaths peak etc...)?
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I agree to an extent, it would have helped if they had admitted to their mistakes early on but unfortunately they didn't and this was only compounded by the lies they were later required to tell to cover-up those mistakes.

The problem with the second paragraph is they have not and will not admitted their mistakes in fact the opposite both Boris and a constant stream of government minister have actually stated how proud they are of their record on handling this crisis, you cannot learn if you do not admit that you may have made mistakes.

Yes the data is out there but basically most countries had a much lower daily infection rate and daily death rate when they started to introduce lockdown easing measures and most were starting form a much harder form of lockdown than the UK.
 
Since COVID-19 virus can be found in faeces this story caught my attention:
“Austrian police defend decision to fine man after 'provocative' fart“
and caused me to wonder if certain people should be wearing two masks, fire and aft when in a public place :). I am not sure how far a provocative fart will carry, more research is needed :).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...d-decision-to-fine-man-after-provocative-fart
 
sphexx said:
Since COVID-19 virus can be found in faeces this story caught my attention:
“Austrian police defend decision to fine man after 'provocative' fart“
and caused me to wonder if certain people should be wearing two masks, fire and aft when in a public place :). I am not sure how far a provocative fart will carry, more research is needed :).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...d-decision-to-fine-man-after-provocative-fart
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I wonder if anyone else will read that as 'provocative art' as I did? :p
 
cambsno said:
To be fair the two go together - by looking after the people you reduce the transmission, hence can get closer to normality that does then help the economy.

But it is a balance - we know that a bad economy will cause a lot of misery and ultimately deaths so you have to take a broader view.
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Indeed, even if a few more people die :sulk:

RWDW said:
You appear to have an objection to people making money and profit is a dirty word?
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When it's linked to the rich getting richer off the back of ordinary people? I think anyone with a soul would feel the same.

cambsno said:
Banging on about lockdown happening a week earlier while true (and a focus of any inquiry), is pretty much pointless now as we cant change that.
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We can't change what's happened but thats no reason to not "bang on" about it. Pretty short sighted outlook that one.
 
Donnie said:
When it's linked to the rich getting richer off the back of ordinary people? I think anyone with a soul would feel the same.


.
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We are just so far apart on our political viewpoints we are not even on the same planet TBH.

I have absolutely no problem with someone that isn't 'ordinary' earning huge amounts of money for the risks/skills/abilities they have that puts them head and shoulders above ordinary people and I object to the 'ordinary' people who expect them to give a large percentage of their earnings up.

Good luck and well done to them.

Ordinary is ,well, just ordinary after all.

Maybe you could sacrifice everything you have worked for over the years and try not to be just an 'ordinary' person; these are the sacrifices/risks most of the very rich have made + lots of extremely hard work; it's a fallacy (with the very odd exception) that people get rich without a talent and lots of hard work; god help a society where we are all the same.
 
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