Think I need to upgrade...70-200 F2.8 or F4

inlineadam

inlineadam

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Adam
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Hi All,

I've been back into photography for a couple years ( loving it again! ) and I started back with a 20D & 55-250 IS.

I love attending rally's and trying to capture the action ( despite the weather )! However, I believe I am starting to become limited by my gear.

I remember someone telling me to upgrade lens first, so that's my initial thoughts.

The 55-250 IS Is a good lens for the price, don't get me wrong - but in the wet/darker conditions it really struggles. I was using AI Servo (yesterday) and it really struggled to focus properly in the light & rain and wasn't too sharp - I found this very annoying as I'd managed to sign on as media at Crail, and the corner I set up on was brilliant ( about 20 cars spuN! ) so I missed a lot of shots.

I understand that if I upgrade to a new lens - then ideally I'm wanting the 70-200 F2.8..... however, I don't really want to be paying that much right now - so the alternative could be the 70-200 F4. [ Now Considering the Sigma alternative, can anyone vouch for it? ]


Is the F4 going to be suitable for what I am doing ( bearing in mind it's dark and rainy at just about every event I go to! )

Your advice is much appreciated,

Adam
 
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Have you considered the Sigma alternative?

About a year ago I was in the same position as you - wanting a fast 2.8 aperture 70-200 for sports but struggling to justify the large price tag of the Canon. I eventually picked up a mint Sigma 70-200 2.8 EX DG HSM II for about the same price as a used Canon 70-200 f4 and it's a cracking lens, I haven't looked back since. Just make sure it's nice and sharp before you hand over the cash as apparently Sigma's can vary. :thumbs:
 
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ZoneV said:
Have you considered the Sigma alternative?

About a year ago I was in the same position as you - wanting a fast 2.8 aperture 70-200 for sports but struggling to justify the large price tag of the Canon. I eventually picked up a mint Sigma 70-200 2.8 EX DG HSM II for about the same price as a used Canon 70-200 f4 and it's a cracking lens, I haven't looked back since. Just make sure it's nice and sharp before you hand over the cash as apparently Sigma's can vary. :thumbs:
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Thanks for the reply,

I am also considering the sigma.. I've been put off a little by a video I watched which compared the two and they pumped the canon up to be ten times better. I'll have a look around see what Is said :)
 
inlineadam said:
Thanks for the reply,

I am also considering the sigma.. I've been put off a little by a video I watched which compared the two and they pumped the canon up to be ten times better. I'll have a look around see what Is said :)
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Yes, bare in mind that whilst the Canon model may be superior, the Sigma is also excellent - there's an awful lot of FUD out there surrounding Sigma lenses.

I'd recommend having a play with one if possible, see what YOU think of it. :thumbs:.
 
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ZoneV said:
Yes, bare in mind that whilst the Canon model may be superior, the Sigma is also excellent - there's an awful lot of FUD out there surrounding Sigma lenses.

I'd recommend having a play with one if possible, see what YOU think of it. :thumbs:.
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Have you any shots you can show me that you have taken with it?

And if possible any in Low light conditions?

Also! (apologies for being annoying ) how do you find the AF in low light?
 
Sure (although there are others here on TP with the same lens that will probably be able to show you better examples than mine! :)). Anyway, here are a few - a couple taken with my 1D2N and some from last year with my 30D (which is very similar to your 20D). I can't see any particularly low light shots but I haven't found focussing a problem:

1D2N:

178mm f/2.8:

Bangor 10k Run 27/5/2012 - #342 by Box with a button, on Flickr

91mm f/2.8:

Bangor 10k Run 27/5/2012 - #359 by Box with a button, on Flickr


30D:

200mm f/4.5:

Wales Rally GB 2011, Great Orme - Semerad / Ernst by Box with a button, on Flickr

135mm f/2.8:

Japanese Earthquake Anniversary: PAWB Anti-Nuclear Protest 11/03/12 - Menai Bridge, Anglesey. by Box with a button, on Flickr

200mm f/4.0:

Snowdon Race 2011 - 29 Enrico by Box with a button, on Flickr
 
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I was in a similar position last year and borrowed a mates 70-200 f4 for the football,in good light it was stunning but I found in the winter and at night i needed f2.8,i went for the Tamron 70-200 f2.8 and have not been disappointed it's also the cheapest out there at the moment
 
CaptainPenguin said:
I was in a similar position last year and borrowed a mates 70-200 f4 for the football,in good light it was stunning but I found in the winter and at night i needed f2.8,i went for the Tamron 70-200 f2.8 and have not been disappointed it's also the cheapest out there at the moment
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I've also been looking at that, however, apparently the sigma's got a better focus motor..
 
inlineadam said:
Thanks,

I do like the f4 as well , I'm just worried about how it will be in low light.. ( especially the AF )
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These were taken in the worst conditions ive ever been in, dark day and constant rain and i the AF worked fine, missed a few shots but i think that was more user error. I just noticed im using the same camera as yourself as well.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=403692

These were as well, really dark day at Brands last year and the AF worked perfectly

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=357618
 
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D-pearce92 said:
These were taken in the worst conditions ive ever been in, dark day and constant rain and i the AF worked fine, missed a few shots but i think that was more user error. I just noticed im using the same camera as yourself as well.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=403692
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They are great, sharp & perfect focus... you're tempting me now!

It's a big help to see photos taken with the same combo so I know what is possible :) ( still learning! )
 
You wont regret it if you do go for it, if you have a crash and you shoot in burst at a failr slow shutter (160th im talking not really slow shutter speeds) the focus seems to keep up well, hope that makes sence, i had a car get knocked off in front of me yesterday and out of 9 shots i took 8 of them were in focus.
The photos are so much sharper as well than the 55-250 that youll notice a differance instantly.

Photos from my first time ever using the lens apart from the obligatory person in the house shot :lol:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=348036
 
D-pearce92 said:
You wont regret it if you do go for it, if you have a crash and you shoot in burst at a failr slow shutter (160th im talking not really slow shutter speeds) the focus seems to keep up well, hope that makes sence, i had a car get knocked off in front of me yesterday and out of 9 shots i took 8 of them were in focus.
The photos are so much sharper as well than the 55-250 that youll notice a differance instantly.

Photos from my first time ever using the lens apart from the obligatory person in the house shot :lol:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=348036
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That makes great sense :) Were you using AI Servo?
 
inlineadam said:
anyone else use or have used the sigma?
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I have one, stunning less.

Fantastic iq and very fast focusing, I rate it up there with the mk 1 Canon.
 
inlineadam said:
Thanks,

I do like the f4 as well , I'm just worried about how it will be in low light.. ( especially the AF )
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It's not just AF, the f/2.8 lens will let in a stop more light than the f/4.

The Canon 70-200 f/4 is a stunning lens, but if low light is your priority you should be looking at f/2.8 as a minimum, or even a fast prime.
 
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inlineadam said:
Ye I know that, but the one stop of more light doesn't concern me too much
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You'll be aware the f/4 won't let in much more light than your 55-250 then? I thought that was why you felt your gear was limiting you?
 
Yeah always do along with back button focussing, i also alter the focus point alot so all my photos arent all central and even though there not cross type focus points like the modern bodys are now i would say about 70% of my photos are sharp.

Youll also notice a huge increase in the amount of keepers you get, i certainly have in the year ive been using it.
 
odd jim said:
You'll be aware the f/4 won't let in much more light than your 55-250 then? I thought that was why you felt your gear was limiting you?
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I felt limited because of the AF capabilities of the 55-250.

When I used it yesterday ( even though it was a bit dull ) I was still using around f6 and that was with 1/160th and without the ISO going past 100.

Edit: Despite me saying i'm not too concerned about f4 - I've always told myself that I would only get something with 2.8 for rallying..

I'm stuck between the Sigma 2.8 and Canon f4
 
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inlineadam said:
I felt limited because of the AF capabilities of the 55-250.

When I used it yesterday ( even though it was a bit dull ) I was still using around f6 and that was with 1/160th and without the ISO going past 100.
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+1 I had exactly the same problem with mine, the thing to remember is how often do you shoot in really really dark conditions, last year out of a whole season of events only twice i found myself. If you buy second hand you could always use it then if you find it doesnt work out for you coould always sell it for the same price as they seem to hold value well.
 
I have no doubt that whichever I get I will love and will do the job - I just want to make sure I am getting the best for the job..
 
D-pearce92 said:
+1 I had exactly the same problem with mine, the thing to remember is how often do you shoot in really really dark conditions, last year out of a whole season of events only twice i found myself. If you buy second hand you could always use it then if you find it doesnt work out for you coould always sell it for the same price as they seem to hold value well.
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In all honesty, everywhere I go I seem to bring the rain with me!
 
odd jim said:
I have one, stunning less.

Fantastic iq and very fast focusing, I rate it up there with the mk 1 Canon.
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Hi Jim,

Have you any shots ( preferably with moving subjects ) that you can show me? I'm very interested in acquiring the sigma - I want to be safe with the extra stop :)
 
Many Canon bodies have extra sensitive AF points that allow the computer to make an initial guess much closer when using f/2.8 lenses. Also the f/2.8 lens can take a 2x extender without losing AF, though not sure you'd want to do that on the old Canon 70-200/2.8:s. Works well on the new II version though.
 
inlineadam said:
Hi Jim,

Have you any shots ( preferably with moving subjects ) that you can show me? I'm very interested in acquiring the sigma - I want to be safe with the extra stop :)
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I'll see what I have on my Flickr as I don't have access to my pc to upload...
 
vaizki said:
Many Canon bodies have extra sensitive AF points that allow the computer to make an initial guess much closer when using f/2.8 lenses. Also the f/2.8 lens can take a 2x extender without losing AF, though not sure you'd want to do that on the old Canon 70-200/2.8:s. Works well on the new II version though.
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Thanks for your Input - I'm leaning towards the sigma now, a lot of my trips will be in low light ( as that's what happens when you live in Scotland! ), and as others have vouched for the great IQ and focus motor on the Sigma I don't feel I would be missing out on much by not getting the Canon f4.
 
You've sold it to me, Jim!

Thanks for that :)

Were those taken with the OS Version?

I'm going to get the non-OS version as I'm not up for paying the much extra monies!
 
inlineadam said:
You've sold it to me, Jim!

Thanks for that :)

Were those taken with the OS Version?

I'm going to get the non-OS version as I'm not up for paying the much extra monies!
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Nope non OS, hand held!
 
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odd jim said:
Taken in VERY low light;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddjim/6102545654/
Alana jumping 2 by Odd Jim, on Flickr

Again, low light (torrential rain) with TC

http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddjim/6072850300/
Ferrari Massa copy by Odd Jim, on Flickr

F1, doesn't get faster than this (with TC)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddjim/5916482448/
Ferrari Alonso 2 by Odd Jim, on Flickr

More F1

http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddjim/5916374234/
Lotus Trulli by Odd Jim, on Flickr
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inlineadam said:
Great!

I heard that some of them can be "dodgy" versions... anything specific I should look out for?

(getting 2nd hand obviously)
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Not really. I think that's a bit of Internet hysteria. All lenses can front or back focus but I swear half of these "problems" are imagined! If you buy used, try it on our body if you can.
 
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