This is driving me NUTS!

StewartR said:
Yeah yeah. But you haven't really though this through, have you. The tilt-shift trick only works on flat mirrors. When the mirror is spherical, there's nowhere you can put the camera where it won't be in the reflection, because everything is in the reflection.
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Yup, even if you use the mirror trick to convert the sphere into flat it still won't work... because the sphere will still see the reflection in the mirror.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
get them to buy security glass / mirror like in those awful supermarkets.

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This would work. Mirrored glass facing the object but at an angle so it reflects something other than the object would still let you shoot through (it would act as a dark filter) and control what the reflections are. Would need the space behind the mirrored glass to be much darker than around the object.
 
Erty said:
This would work. Mirrored glass facing the object but at an angle so it reflects something other than the object would still let you shoot through (it would act as a dark filter) and control what the reflections are. Would need the space behind the mirrored glass to be much darker than around the object.
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I haven't tried it, but I'm not so sure... A sphere sees *everything* so I don't think it's possible to place a mirror in front where the sphere won't also be seen in the reflection. I think it's more likely that you would wind up with some version of an infinity mirror effect.
 
The sphere will see the mirror instead of the camera hidden behind it. But the mirror can be reflecting anything if it isn't perpendicular. No matter what you do, people are going to look into the reflection in the picture to see what is behind the lens. You could exploit this to create the right image.
 
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Erty said:
The sphere will see the mirror instead of the camera hidden behind it. But the mirror can be reflecting anything if it isn't perpendicular. No matter what you do, people are going to look into the reflection in the picture to see what is behind the lens. You could exploit this to create the right image.
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I understand the concept, I'm just pretty sure it won't work... or rather, it would hide the camera but introduce a different issue.
If you set a reflective sphere on a mirror the mirror will reflect the sphere back onto the bottom of the sphere... forward bottom if that's the angle you are looking at it from. You get the "infinity effect" in that location. That's effectively the mirror at 90* and you couldn't shoot through it. At a higher angle, where you can shoot through it, the reflection of the sphere onto the sphere moves upwards.
If the mirror is smaller so that the sphere cannot see itself in it, then what will be reflected in the sphere is the smaller mirror and it will look like "a picture" being reflected in the sphere.

I'd love for someone to actually try it to know for sure...
 
If the one way mirror is relatively small, it could be placed somewhere in the "scene" and would look like a framed picture in the final shot. While there will be an element of infinity mirroring, the reflection in the sphere will be small and the reflected reflections (angle the flat, one way mirror slightly and they'll be eliminated anyway) will be even smaller.
 
StewartR said:
Yeah yeah. But you haven't really though this through, have you. The tilt-shift trick only works on flat mirrors. When the mirror is spherical, there's nowhere you can put the camera where it won't be in the reflection, because everything is in the reflection.
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Kinda my thoughts too, Stewart
 
Whoa fellas, this is getting pretty complicated for a mere mortal like me ... plus they don't pay me enough to spend the rest of my working days on this job.

I've told the marketing department (and the MD) they need to give it to a professional studio. Hopefully they'll ask me to take it so I can see how its done :)
 
Bristolian said:
Does anyone have any ideas for this? It needs to look like a ball and not a flat disc.
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If a lightbox/tent is tricky, swap the ball surface in your photograph for a reflection, such as this one below. (I searched for 'steel ball'.)
It is even possible to draw a new reflection from scratch, based on search images that look pleasing to you.
Personally, I'd draw it in Inkscape and use that.

metallics-everbilt-composite-fasteners-838808-64_1000.jpg
 
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Here's a steel ball I just drew in Inkscape. The original vectors can be changed easily and rendered into any resolution. I tried but couldn't upload svg files here though.
Steel Ball.JPG Steel Ball.svg
 
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Can you not shoot it in a dark room with just the object illuminated (with you in the shadows)?
 
Sorry Ian, but that's totally unrealistic, it looks cgi'd, badly cgi'd.

I also cannot tell that its a sphere. Nor that's its steel. It either looks like it a tapered cylinder, with a black slightly curved lid. Or it looks like a bowl, with a dark inside with a poorly added reflection
 
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The top one is a real photo. The vector one, below it, took a few mins and it's meant to look clean. Any texturing and dirt required, can be added in pixels. But any other, less clean, picture will do.
 
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I would suggest a black non reflective material hanging over the sphere (think material suspended over a large hula hoop [not the edible snack variety] to give space around the sphere) camera on a tripod with only the front of lens poking through the black material. You will still get the reflection of the lens in the sphere but that should be easy to remove in post processing.
 
It has been said before... create the environment for the reflections. In these days of digital and computer processing rather than try to do it in one take combine a series of different images to create the desired result, you then have total control over illustrating the shape and where light or dark reflections occur... don't try to light the object itself apart from where you want a bit more of a specular reflection.
 
I used to think your name was a good laugh and I once joked about a smart reply you made but,you really are Smart,you always seem to come up with
a clever answer :D
 
Steve
Don't know if this is still a problem, but you could try building a light tent. Spherical items makes this a bit trickier than more conventional items. Light the tent, which will also diffuse the light as well and make it nice and soft. You'll have to make a small hole in the tent for the lens to shoot through. You'll have to clone this out , but as its soft lit it shouldn't be to much of a problem. If you can use fabric it will make it easier than paper, but will need supporting. (0+gsm tracing paper should work ( I can't remember what I used) but be careful as this stuff creases

This technique will give a soft , and a bit shapeless image. You can use use black paper, on the inside of the tent cut to shape to give an indication of dimension . Also some dark paper around the base of the tent to give some lighting "texture"

Hope this helps
 
Hi folks, whilst I was away on holiday the company paid a professional photographer to do the job. He took the item to his studio and the resulting image is almost exactly what I was trying to achieve.

Sorry, I can't put up an image yet as product launch doesn't happen until next week but watch this space :)

@Chappers: I tried a fabric light tent but the results were not great, possibly due to trying to light it with 3 speedlights - all I have these days :(
 
So, I can finally reveal what this was all about - our new Thunderstorm/Lightning Warning System

New lightning warning system by Steve Goodfellow, on Flickr

This weird looking device can detect all forms of lightning out to a distance of 35km from its location and give up to 30 minutes warning of potential lightning activity within 15km before it actually happens. It will make its official debut at the Meteorologial World Expo in Amsterdam in October but we have just started the pre-launch marketing campaign so I can show you what was driving me nuts actually is :)
 
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Bristolian said:
So, I can finally reveal what this was all about - our new Thunderstorm/Lightning Warning System

New lightning warning system by Steve Goodfellow, on Flickr

This weird looking device can detect all forms of lightning out to a distance of 35km from its location and give up to 30 minutes warning of potential lightning activity within 15km before it actually happens. It will make its official debut at the Meteorologial World Expo in Amsterdam in October but we have just started the pre-launch marketing campaign so I can show you what was driving me nuts actually is :)
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Thanks for the update mate. Looks good.
 
Bristolian said:
So, I can finally reveal what this was all about - our new Thunderstorm/Lightning Warning System

New lightning warning system by Steve Goodfellow, on Flickr

This weird looking device can detect all forms of lightning out to a distance of 35km from its location and give up to 30 minutes warning of potential lightning activity within 15km before it actually happens. It will make its official debut at the Meteorologial World Expo in Amsterdam in October but we have just started the pre-launch marketing campaign so I can show you what was driving me nuts actually is :)
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I need to know how this works, sounds cool as!
 
Bristolian said:
So, I can finally reveal what this was all about - our new Thunderstorm/Lightning Warning System

New lightning warning system by Steve Goodfellow, on Flickr

This weird looking device can detect all forms of lightning out to a distance of 35km from its location and give up to 30 minutes warning of potential lightning activity within 15km before it actually happens. It will make its official debut at the Meteorologial World Expo in Amsterdam in October but we have just started the pre-launch marketing campaign so I can show you what was driving me nuts actually is :)
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Don't want to rain on your parade but didn't Ben Franklin invent something like this way back? :)
.
 
petersmart said:
Don't want to rain on your parade but didn't Ben Franklin invent something like this way back? :)
.[/QUOTE

There is no parade to rain on. There are lots of lightning detectecors on the market but the technology that we use is unique and heavily patented world-wide. Ben Franklin's kite eperiments lead to the invention of the lightning rod - not the same thing at all.
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Alan Clogwyn said:
I need to know how this works, sounds cool as!
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Details of the precise technology used are way beyond my ability to explain it ... but fortunately we have one of the world's leading lightning experts working for us :)

In basic terms, the round ball is an antenna. There is a much smaller, flat plate antenna tucked up inside the black shield between the ball and the electronics cabinet below. These antenna monitor the electrostatic field of the Earth and detect very small changes in the low frequency region (e.g. less than 40Hz). The differences in the signals from the two antenna are used to determine if a disturbance is due to lightning, or something else. By working in the region below 50Hz the sensor is immune to man-made interference, which is the major problem with typical field mill lightning detectors. This sensor will report all forms of lightning up to 35km from its position. It can also give warnings of potential lightning activity within about 16km before the first lightning strike actually happens - typically 20-30mins warning is possible.

That last part is very important if you happen to be working at the top of a wind turbine or up an electrical transmission pylon or handling volatile substances as it gives you time to move into a safe place. The short reporting range makes it ideal for golf clubs, sports stadia, other outdoow activities (pop festivals, etc.) and portable applications. We already have a longer-range lightning detector which is used at airports, petro-chemical refineries, mines/quarries, etc. but the new sensor answers requirements that other martkets have been asking for.

I hope that makes sense :)
 
Sorry for being very simplistic, but couldn't it have just been photoshopped?
 
tijuana taxi said:
Sorry for being very simplistic, but couldn't it have just been photoshopped?
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I think so. Well, vectored and then Gimped. Which is the example I posted above. And the final result wasn't too different.
But that is only for those who are into using the computer tools. Others may be more adept with lights and props. And prefer the practical way. Which also sounds fun to me.
 
Graham W said:
Looks to me as though your photographer used anti-reflect mat spray!...Ahem post #60 :)
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he did indeed. Hel also took it to his studio and lit it with three large softboxes - one above and one on each side :)
 
tijuana taxi said:
Sorry for being very simplistic, but couldn't it have just been photoshopped?
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Undoubtedly .. and when my employer pays for PS and provides me with a better work PC and allows me the time to do that I'll be happy to while away the hours PSing the images he gets for free.

Of course, he might get a bit miffed when he sees how little real work I've done in the meantime :)

And I'm sure as hell not going to spend hours of my free time doing it at home for free :)
 
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