This is not a troll...

LemmingLover

LemmingLover

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Jonathan
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Yes
Really, it's not

What I would like to understand is where asking for computer help for free on a forum like this is different from situations that you see (for example) with wedding togs complaining about people with cheap DSLR's muscling in on their business.

When is it acceptable to ask for something from a skilled individual for free?
 
It's totally different tbh. :p

I'm sure noone is bothered with giving advice to someone who wants to shoot their own wedding (if that's even possible...:lol:) just like noone is bothered giving advice to help fix a computer.

There is a difference between physically doing something and giving advice. Same with doing something for yourself and something for others.
 
You missed the point. But it's late so I forgive you :)
 
True, I didn't reply to the last line.

To answer that I guess you could just read what I wrote before though.

I guess it's acceptable when the skilled individual is offering. Again we need to draw the distinction between giving advice and doing, for yourself or for others. If you posted that you had been paid to sort out someones computer and wanted to know how to do it then you would probably be shot down as well.

I guess i've sort of missed the point again but I can't get my head round it any other way.
 
interesting point..

however you get the same situations where for example people that dont really 100% know what the problem is.

for example a recent post on here where a user was having issues with IE, a lot of people advised to swap browsers rather than fixing the actual issue. chances are that issue will never get resolved and may cause other underlying issues, as an IT professional that bugs me to be honest but it "fixed" the users issue.

but then thats not "stealing" work technically..
 
Or like answering a question about web design - I now dont answer these now because invariably the following happens

1. Some smart Alek always decides I deserve a critique on my own site (when I never asked for one), and openly criticises my business, when all i did was in good faith try to help someone
2. The Mods decide my answer is commercially orientated (when in reality, I have way too much work from commercial sources)

A lot of people who defend the prices they charge for photography, then disregard the costs involved with other professions

interesting discussion
 
Richard King said:
Or like answering a question about web design - I now dont answer these now because invariably the following happens

1. Some smart Alek always decides I deserve a critique on my own site (when I never asked for one), and openly criticises my business, when all i did was in good faith try to help someone
2. The Mods decide my answer is commercially orientated (when in reality, I have way too much work from commercial sources)

A lot of people who defend the prices they charge for photography, then disregard the costs involved with other professions

interesting discussion
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i dont see a problem with that, its just mostly market research if you think about it (when asking in terms of "does this look okay" etc)?

edit - quoted post was edited just before i clicked reply so may not make 100% sense.
 
neil_g said:
i dont see a problem with that, its just mostly market research if you think about it (when asking in terms of "does this look okay" etc)?

edit - quoted post was edited just before i clicked reply so may not make 100% sense.
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The problem is that just like in the case of a wedding photographer, any other professional has a reputation that they need to uphold, and ultimatally an income to protect. If answeing a question honestly means you lead yourself wideopen to potshots, then invariably the real experts will stay in the sidelines, and let the wanabee experts talk some sense and some twaddle
 
Richard King said:
The problem is that just like in the case of a wedding photographer, any other professional has a reputation that they need to uphold, and ultimatally an income to protect. If answeing a question honestly means you lead yourself wideopen to potshots, then invariably the real experts will stay in the sidelines, and let the wanabee experts talk some sense and some twaddle
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id hazard a guess that most people on here that offer computer advice arent proffesionals, and those that are dont rely on custom from the general public (i.e. contracted IT or internal IT depts). so theres no custom lost there.

another point to maybe put into perspective, the cost of a wedding tog vs your average computer repair?

to be honest i dont know, i guess more people know (or at least think they know) a bit about computers ..

:shrug:

edit - plus its a little harder to fix a computer based on (most of the time) inaccurate or missing facts on text on a screen. people need to be aware that asking for help online isnt necessarily going to help them vs going to a professional.
 
neil_g said:
id hazard a guess that most people on here that offer computer advice arent proffesionals, and those that are dont rely on custom from the general public (i.e. contracted IT or internal IT depts). so theres no custom lost there.

another point to maybe put into perspective, the cost of a wedding tog vs your average computer repair?

to be honest i dont know, i guess more people know (or at least think they know) a bit about computers ..

:shrug:

edit - plus its a little harder to fix a computer based on (most of the time) inaccurate or missing facts on text on a screen. people need to be aware that asking for help online isnt necessarily going to help them vs going to a professional.
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Well cost of a website vs cost of a wedding is pretty similar. For us we have websites in the rejoin of 5000 - 8000 and down to £60 for a minor fix. So yea we have a lot to loose. Our average website is about £2000, and our average wedding just under that
 
Richard King said:
Well cost of a website vs cost of a wedding is pretty similar. For us we have websites in the rejoin of 5000 - 8000 and down to £60 for a minor fix. So yea we have a lot to loose. Our average website is about £2000, and our average wedding just under that
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okay thats a better comparison..

im going to use my recent website crit thread as an example..

i know how to build a website and i have a rough idea on design, i just like to know that im limiting the site to my personal taste. a web design company wouldnt have lost business in my case.

but yes i agree that people effectively giving huge chunks of code away is a bit like the wedding tog analogy. there are enough free resources out on the net for stuff like that if youre wanting to build your site yourself.
 
it's always acceptable to ask a question on any topic - you don't get if you don't ask - however it's the tone of the question and what you are asking that is the problem. If you ask something ridiculous of someone but ask it politely then you will generally get a polite but firm decline, you might ask a very simple question which most people would be happy to answer but if you ask it rudely you will probably get a rude decline.

I am always more than happy to go out of my way to give, sometimes very detailed, advice - but what i won't do is run about after someone who is too lazy to type a question into google, or go out of my way for someone who is ungrateful or rude when they ask you the initial question.
 
There are some excellent amateur wedding togs about...
But there are perhaps many more excellent amateur computer experts about.

It is surprising how many company computer departments are headed up by ex-amateur computer buffs who have got there on merit. ( usually with no professional training or qualifications.)

Some of all these "experts" are happy to help people out in a friendly way. others who perhaps feel threatened or have a "professional" axe to grind are often rude and offensive.

It take all kinds.

I have been a professional photographer all my working life. I am only too happy to help any struggling photographer. I remember too well, starting out once.

I have been helped in turn by many computer Experts.
 
Actually, you make a very good point. But I suppose it depends on the level of service being offered. The main difference is usually the questions answered on the forum are a 5 minute job, as opposed to a full day photographing a wedding. But obviously this might vary.

For example, Fabs asked an Excel question recently and I spent probably 5/10 minutes figuring out the solution, and a couple of mintues posting. That amounted to about 10/15 minutes of my time. Now, I'm hardly going to start hassling Fabs for a tenner for that :lol:.

On the other hand, I don't agree with people building other peoples websites for free. If you couldn't build your website, I'd charge you for my services to build it for you. I'll be honest, I will give you a smacker of a discount because you'd probably keel over if you heard my rate :lol:. Bottom line is I do this to make money, so it's stupid me helping someone else build a website as part of their business and me not making a dime out of it.
 
LemmingLover said:
When is it acceptable to ask for something from a skilled individual for free?
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It is ALWAYS acceptable to ask for something for free whether it be wedding photography, computer maintenance or any other skill that someone has. It is also acceptable for the skilled person to turn you down.
 
A factor I guess is that the IT community in general has a very strong history of community collaboration, as evidenced by the open source movement. I contribute heavily to a user forum for a product I specialise in....this usually goes on my CV.

Other than that, both industries suffer from the usual cases of sub-standard professionals feeling threatened by talented amateurs, it's hardly constrained to just IT and photography!
 
LemmingLover said:
Really, it's not

What I would like to understand is where asking for computer help for free on a forum like this is different from situations that you see (for example) with wedding togs complaining about people with cheap DSLR's muscling in on their business.

When is it acceptable to ask for something from a skilled individual for free?
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It's not really about the asking, it's about attitudes and professionalism.

The type of photographer who gets slagged off for offering their services for weddings for free or little cost generally get slagged off for some of the following:

Taking the job on without relevant experience
Not having backup plans / backup gear
Generally perpetuating the idea that it's easy and anyone can do it - usually when they have no idea.

I know next to nothing about web design, however I'll answer questions on forums where my next to nothing is maybe enough to provide insight for the person with the question. That's not the same thing as me touting for business in web design, or even offering someone more help than I am actually equipped to provide. That's about the crux of it.
 
Asking questions builds one knowledge. I see no difference asking a question on this forum about cameras or computers. I like photography and my computer.

If people choose to answer my questions all well and good if they don't no loss.

I ask questions in photography shops & computer shops, there I do expect an answer. In all cases I have not been charged for asking the question. The answer may involve money & I then have to decide if I value the answer well enough to part with my money.
 
neil_g said:
id hazard a guess that most people on here that offer computer advice arent proffesionals
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Some of us are. Although I actually design and code computer software and do some server maintenance rather than being an IT bod, so my solutions (I don't post here much, they tend to be in non photographic forums) are often rather involved and comprehensive, almost always require a root login and so some people don't understand the words and tell me I'm making things up.

Even so I don't tout for business or tell people to leave things to the pros, even when things are mission critical. I just offer advice where I can.
 
I think everyone has missed one the points of such a forum as this....that it is the sharing of information and advice that makes it tick and passes the knowledge around. Now that may be mainly photographic and indeed even weddings, but as our media usually means using computers these days, then that can also count. In fact it can be anything, look how many car related advice threads there are in OOF and so on.

As already said, it ALWAYS acceptable to ask for help - this is a discussion forum where one of the main purposes is to help ALL its members - as it is always acceptable to chose not to give it, but what is NOT acceptable is being rude about telling someone you are not giving it. If you cannot post in a friendly manner, then better you don't post at all, there are always others that will offer whatever advice they can.
Whatever the question, a forum as broad as this one will nearly always get a range of answers coming from people with a range of knowledge. Again this is where the 'paid' experts can let themselves down by being snappy and nasty to someone that might not have offered what that expert considers to be the best advice, although I do want to also point out that such occasions are rare and limited to a few individuals.

So, it is nearly always acceptable to ask, very acceptable to respond, unacceptable to respond rudely, acceptable to not respond at all, with the caveat that more often than not, you will usually take out as much as you put in and if all our 'experts' stoped helping others, it would be a very poor place and one would wonder why they bothered jloinin anyway. ;)
 
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