This is Ridiculous...

Have to agree with the OP that this is a ridiculous situation. but it was the same at my daughters play this year.

But some places have do back the photographer, i shoot under 16 football and the away team are not asked if i can shoot by our coach they are told iam shooting. If any of the parents object then they are given the option to leave the ground.
There have not been any objections to date.
 
There was an interesting (and IMO balanced) article around this issue in the Guardian a while ago entitled 'What is a pornographic photograph? Jon Silverman reports on the growing paranoia that is now threatening even the most innocent of occasions - the school nativity play'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/dec/18/schools.familyandrelationships

The sentence that summed up a number education authorities' stance was this:

"Within the teaching and local education world, there is a phenomenally strong climate of watching your back and taking steps to ward off the threat of being blamed, or worse, sued, for not foreseeing a risk."
 
Les McLean said:
There was an interesting (and IMO balanced) article around this issue in the Guardian a while ago entitled 'What is a pornographic photograph? Jon Silverman reports on the growing paranoia that is now threatening even the most innocent of occasions - the school nativity play'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/dec/18/schools.familyandrelationships

The sentence that summed up a number education authorities' stance was this:

"Within the teaching and local education world, there is a phenomenally strong climate of watching your back and taking steps to ward off the threat of being blamed, or worse, sued, for not foreseeing a risk."
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Which pretty much sums it up. It's got nothing to do with protecting the kids, it's about self preservation!
 
Les McLean said:
There was an interesting (and IMO balanced) article around this issue in the Guardian a while ago entitled 'What is a pornographic photograph? Jon Silverman reports on the growing paranoia that is now threatening even the most innocent of occasions - the school nativity play'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/dec/18/schools.familyandrelationships

The sentence that summed up a number education authorities' stance was this:

"Within the teaching and local education world, there is a phenomenally strong climate of watching your back and taking steps to ward off the threat of being blamed, or worse, sued, for not foreseeing a risk."
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Les - it must be about time for you to change that avatar of yours - I've not seen you out & about in that get-up for a couple of years now

:D

DD
 
Double_Agent said:
I am sorry but I agree with this stance.

Imagine it was your child in the play and you had not given consent for your child to be photographed but someone still took pictures of the play which happenned to show them in them, would you not be a little miffed!!

Having had the same trouble at my own childrens nativity play, it just took a little common sense to understand why some parents do not give consent and as they are in the same play, how can you say which child has and hasnt got consent. How do they know you wont take a picture of Billy for example?
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WTF? Why would you be "Miffed" How in the world is a photo any different to simple observation, other than giving a lasting record.

I would have absolutely no problem with a photographer pointing his lens at my kids.

Even if we say that this photographer happened to be the boogy man p*** we are all supposed to be so terrified of, so what? What the hell do I care? Taking a photo isn't going to change anything and its a lot less sick than whats around on the internet I'd bet money on that.

:bang: :bang: :bang:
 
If they don't want they're kids to be photographed don't allow them to be in the play in the first place! wrap them in cotton wool and bubble wrap and hide them away from the real world christ in 10 years time we're going to have a generation of mard arse teenagers that will fear doing anything, they won't be able to leave the house because they'll all be politically correct agrophobics! :bang:
 
DiddyDave said:
If some perv is that desperate for a shot of kids, I suspect they'd rather go stand outside of school and shoot from a secretive position, or use the even more obvious internet - not stand up in a hall with 200 parents and do it - FFS

DD
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This is spot on, it's a bit similar to the terrorist paranoia, if a terrorist wanted pics of security building they would hardly go around with a DSLR, just search the net plenty on there of london's major buildings, it's getting way way out of order now, i'm just glad my kids are grown up and i have plenty of photos of them taken when they were toddlers when no one gave a toss if you were photographing them, bloody hell i have photos of mine playing in the bath (perhaps i shouldn't have said that on a public forum, i can see the big red sledgehammer coming through the door at 6 in the morning :lol:) everyone took those sort of pics in my day and no one batted an eyelid, what a sad sick society this world is coming too :shrug:
 
I am with the others, I would not give 2 figs if my kids were photographed by other parents during a school performance, as Marcel said, if you are so damn paranoid about your kids being photographed, fully clothed and NOT personally identifiable, then do not allow your children to be part of the performance and take away yet another of their childhood experiences because of your own paranoia!


I can understand the principals stance, its him that has to take the stick from the minority of narrow minded DM readers that cause these problems in the first place, but its a ridiculous state of affairs that he has to do this in the first place. He is also wrong on a legal point, posting pics of fully clothed kids on the internet is not child abuse. I think at the very worse, it could be construed as invasion of privacy but even that would be pretty hard to prove being as they are in a performance open to parents, families, friends, etc. However, using some form of legal persuasion or argument is fairly standard as its enough to scare most happy snappers that would have no idea that its utter tosh.
 
Chillimonster said:
I still do, well i will need some embarassing photos at my daughters 21st birthday parties :D
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We all do, and long may it continue

As I suggested before, for every 1 perv who gets off on a shot of a tot naked, there are 1,000 hopefully 10,000+ who'd just think "Awww cute" and move on

But how many of those pervs could get off on seeing little Carol in her Christmas outfit??? Must be 1 in a million at least as there cannot be anything sexual about it :shrug:

My worry for my daughter???

She's 17 now, and pretty shapely & good looking if you ask me - what I worry about are those damned late teens early twenties (like I was) who hunt such 'legal' fodder

I think she's more at-risk now than ever she was in a School nativity play

DD
 
A few years back I was taking pics at a local show where there was to be a BMX stunt show. I was doing some test shots as the riders practiced when an "official" came up and ordered me to stop, saying that some of the bmx'ers were under 16 so couldn't be photographed.

I retorted that surely if they were putting on a public display it was permissable, to which she replied that yes, I was allowed to take pictures during the actual display, but not during the practice session :shrug:
 
The saddest part of this is the school is the first one to break the "rule" if it suits them, we were asked to video (with 2 cameras) a school Christmas concert, no CRB check was made to see if our togs were wanted men (one has a CRB as it happens, I have the other but couldn't be there on the day) the school wants 75 copies of the video to SELL!
I suppose selling videos of young children doesn't count, just don't put a pic on facebook lol. Wayne
 
swanseamale47 said:
The saddest part of this is the school is the first one to break the "rule" if it suits them, we were asked to video (with 2 cameras) a school Christmas concert, no CRB check was made to see if our togs were wanted men (one has a CRB as it happens, I have the other but couldn't be there on the day) the school wants 75 copies of the video to SELL!
I suppose selling videos of young children doesn't count, just don't put a pic on facebook lol. Wayne
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:lol::lol:

That just fits so well with the two faced society we seemed to be evolving into, one rule for us and another for them. :bang:

If I don't laugh, I'd cry. :(
 
Double_Agent said:
I am sorry but I agree with this stance.

Imagine it was your child in the play and you had not given consent for your child to be photographed but someone still took pictures of the play which happenned to show them in them, would you not be a little miffed!!

Having had the same trouble at my own childrens nativity play, it just took a little common sense to understand why some parents do not give consent and as they are in the same play, how can you say which child has and hasnt got consent. How do they know you wont take a picture of Billy for example?
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Who gives a monkeys elbow if I take a picture of Billy or Sally or Susan? Are we that obsessed as a society about these little pictures that we can't see the bigger picture of what we are doing? We put so much effort into ensuring that 'abuse' does not take place that we are now abusing our children's right to have these images and our right as parents to take them. Must we spoil and taint the innocence of childhood at all levels. Are we really so far off the track that we have to sully a nativity play with our suspicious and media washed minds?

You don't want your kids picture taken in the nativity play then don't put them in the play.

How would you react if a total stranger took a picture of your child on the street?

Totally legal and they don't need your or your child's permission.
 
Certain parents don't like their child being photographed but they parade them on stage in the play in front of 100s of people!! Don't make sense to me!!

Paul
 
Double_Agent said:
I am sorry but I agree with this stance.

Imagine it was your child in the play and you had not given consent for your child to be photographed but someone still took pictures of the play which happenned to show them in them, would you not be a little miffed!!

Having had the same trouble at my own childrens nativity play, it just took a little common sense to understand why some parents do not give consent and as they are in the same play, how can you say which child has and hasnt got consent. How do they know you wont take a picture of Billy for example?
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I honestly despair at this :bang: What would be your reaction if you were in the play area with your child and there was a parent talking pictures of their child on the swings?? Would you be 'miffed' that your child may be in the background of the shot?? I can just imagine it now,

"come on johnny time to go home"

"why?"

"because that man is taking pictures of his own child"

My wife and I are expecting our first child and I wonder what sort of world our baby is coming into. Schools in my opinion should adopt the policy, if parents don't want their child to be photographed, then do not let them be in the damn play!!!!! And for those who would say, that just spoils it for the child - then tough!!!!!! All other parents and children shouldn't suffer because one or two people actually believe there is a weirdo or pedophile lurking on every street corner and outside every playground across the whole of the UK!!! Why not just ban the sale of cameras and be done with it!!!!

I do not intend to make light of this very serious issue BTW, but what on earth is happening, what will they do next, ban the traditional school photo??? :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
 
A friend of mine asked if I would take some photos of her daughter who had been gala queen and was to be at some presentation or other to the new gala queen (Sorry but don't know all the details) anyway, I said okay and asked her to let me know the details of when, where etc. That evening she called and said they wouldn't allow me to do it as I wasn't family :shrug:

Crazy thing is the mother would be there, she's asked me to do it and her daughter had been to at least five or six public events and in the local paper on quite a few occasions :bonk:

It really is a crazy world
 
This is another case of stupidity and lack of common sense that is all too common. At my childrens school they went through a spell of totally banning photo's at school plays etc, but you could photograph your own child at the end away from the other kids :cuckoo:. Then you were allowed to descreetly take pictures :thinking: descreetly to me looks wrong rather than being up front about it !!.If you don't want your child to be photographed they should not take part in the play. At present my 10 yr old son plays golf for the local golf club and on special match days etc. I take my gear along and get shots of all the kids playing golf, all the parents are extremely happy fort this to happen and have all signed to allow this to happen, because they want to remember special moments from there childs life.

I went to my sons school play on monday this week, I walked in the school entrance to be greeted with pictures of lots of children mine included, was I asked permission ?? No...double standards:shrug: and then during the play the teachers were videoing the play and taking pics through out!!.

This is how it should be and hopefully the paranoia will eventually go away.

Dean
 
towershot said:
No, you are mistaken, A lot of us here have written to our MP's ,:)
So now they will sort it out.................:razz:
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wow a pig just flew past my house:)
 
:shrug:

i have to agree that this is a little daft, however.........there may be some sence in it..........Bear with me.

I photograph in schools full time, and had a situation in the summer.

One of the kids was in protective custody, and was living in a safe house with foster parents. No one could know who he really was, or where he was, not nice.

So he couldnt be in the class photo, due to the fact it went home to 30 families, and if any of them parents recognised him as who he really was, then hell would have broke loose and he would have genuinely been in danger.

So if there is a situation like that, the school obviously wont make parents aware of it, but they will do all they can to prevent it. Even worse if little johnnys photo rocks up on Facebook, and is there for the world to see.

Or.....it could be that the head is a bit power happy and wants to stamp his authority on things. who knows.

Lee
 
Leeb said:
One of the kids was in protective custody, and was living in a safe house with foster parents. No one could know who he really was, or where he was, not nice.

So he couldnt be in the class photo, due to the fact it went home to 30 families, and if any of them parents recognised him as who he really was, then hell would have broke loose and he would have genuinely been in danger.

So if there is a situation like that, the school obviously wont make parents aware of it, but they will do all they can to prevent it. Even worse if little johnnys photo rocks up on Facebook, and is there for the world to see.
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The one major flaw in that argument is, if that were the case, little Johnny would not be paraded in front of an audience in a school play.
 
possibly so, but how do they tell him he can't be in it with all the stupid PC Crap there is now days? equal opps etc?

im not saying i agree with it one bit, but having photos on FB of him dressed as a tree or whatever, is going to be more risky than having 20 mums focusing on their own little critter.
 
Leeb said:
possibly so, but how do they tell him he can't be in it with all the stupid PC Crap there is now days? equal opps etc?

im not saying i agree with it one bit, but having photos on FB of him dressed as a tree or whatever, is going to be more risky than having 20 mums focusing on their own little critter.
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True, but at the end of the day if you have a child in that situation you keep him out of sight at public events, whether the risk be great or small. As said before, all this child protection nonsense is just a smokescreen to protect their own @rses!
 
you would like to think that would be the case. could also argue that he walks out of the school gate every night.

whole thing is crazy! :shrug:
 
fabs said:
True, but at the end of the day if you have a child in that situation you keep him out of sight at public events, whether the risk be great or small. As said before, all this child protection nonsense is just a smokescreen to protect their own @rses!
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exactly, plus thats going to the absolute extreme. I just dont think this can really be argued its stupid. I really despise the "sheep" style the world has become were we follow what the first sheep says because hes at the front so he must be right.

But then im the kind of person who finds it ridiculous that their are place i cant enjoy because their "private" I got kicked off a beach once because it was private... i thought it was disgusting that a single person/company can own a piece of beach and water...
 
Dom_Cabarete said:
exactly, plus thats going to the absolute extreme. I just dont think this can really be argued its stupid. I really despise the "sheep" style the world has become were we follow what the first sheep says because hes at the front so he must be right.

But then im the kind of person who finds it ridiculous that their are place i cant enjoy because their "private" I got kicked off a beach once because it was private... i thought it was disgusting that a single person/company can own a piece of beach and water...
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The world has always been of the "sheep" mentality, how do you think all the major religions started? It just seems worse now because the world hase become a tiny place.

As for the beach, well if it's private land it doesn't matter wheter it's 100 miles inland or the coastline to me. :shrug:
 
DiddyDave said:
Imagine in 30-40 years when you're going through your photos with your grandkids -

Here was me on the beach, at the school play, here's me with my arse out as a toddler, and here's me swinging from a climbing frame in a park, and here's... (interrupted)

Grandad, where are my pics doing the same?

Weren't allowed to son, weren't allowed to
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The_Bulb said:
"come on johnny time to go home"

"why?"

"because that man is taking pictures of his own child"
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It's amazing, isn't it, that both of these sound so plausible. How wrong is that?

Here's a thought though .....

How many of you are actively involved with your kids schools and/or your local council? Our council has loads of ways in which members of the public can contribute to policy and decision making. I imagine others do too. And most if not all schools will have some sort of parents committee.

Don't just let other people make the rules and then complain. Do something about it.
 
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