Thoughts on a mirrorless as a take anywhere camera? Lumix gx9

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#1
So basically i have a lot of heavy Nikon kit which i love but since having 2 children under 2 I barely get the chance to use.
I'm thinking of getting a mirrorless 3/4 So I can actually take photographs again, so something that I can fit in my bag and operate whilst juggling a baby in a sling and running after a toddler!

Budget is about £500-600 So I'm thinking of getting the Panasonic gx9 as jessops have some good deals, anyone have any advice or any other cameras I should be looking at, feel I'm getting a bit rusty here!
 
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#2
I have a GX9 and also a GX80 and to be honest I can't see any difference at all in the image quality.

The GX9 does have auto ISO with exposure compensation in manual mode though which I love whereas the GX80 only allows it in aperture and shutter modes. The GX9 also has the tilting evf and physical af/mf/exposure lock switch but the GX80 is cheaper. I'm not a great fan of the evf these cameras have though and I do wish Panasonic had fitted a much better one.
 
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#3
Thank you, the cheapness might win as I'd like a prime lens too, the main appeal with the gx9 is it seems a good deal at £599 including a 12-32 lens and 35-100, i had a quick look at them in-store a little while ago and the evf are awful, I think I'll be relying on the screen which isn't my style but I'm fed up of taking most of my photos on my phone where I'm using the screen anyway!
 
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#4
I haven't used either, but as Woof points out, and it's in line with what I have researched on these bodies [would fancy one as back up to my G80] - there's not a lot between them, certainly not in terms of end IQ. You do get a few more MP, so you do have that extra crop-ability, but many say they actually prefer the overall feel of the GX80
 
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#5
I haven't used either, but as Woof points out, and it's in line with what I have researched on these bodies [would fancy one as back up to my G80] - there's not a lot between them, certainly not in terms of end IQ. You do get a few more MP, so you do have that extra crop-ability, but many say they actually prefer the overall feel of the GX80
I think some people / reviewers can get caught up in excessive pixel peeping but even critical me can't see anything worth mentioning image quality wise between these cameras BUT... the GX80 is 16mp and the GX9 is 20mp so if the GX9 can at least match the GX80 and maybe beat it I suppose that's an achievement given the extra few mp's.

Thank you, the cheapness might win as I'd like a prime lens too, the main appeal with the gx9 is it seems a good deal at £599 including a 12-32 lens and 35-100, i had a quick look at them in-store a little while ago and the evf are awful, I think I'll be relying on the screen which isn't my style but I'm fed up of taking most of my photos on my phone where I'm using the screen anyway!
I wear glasses most of the time now and I find it impossible to get the evf sharp all over so I just go for the best compromise and live with the display information in the corners being blurred unless I move my eye about the evf. If I'm thinking about this and being critical it annoys me and I do wish they'd fitted a better evf or maybe it's just the crappy optics Panasonic have put in front of it. Whatever the cause if I look at the evf I find fault with it but when out taking real pictures in the real world I forget about it and it's a non issue :D

I do wish they had better evf's / optics though.

PS.
On the lenses. As far as I know the 12-32mm doesn't have a focus ring and if you want to focus manually you have to use a scale on the back screen... or something like that. That would annoy me and I personally would avoid lenses without focus rings. I have the tiny 14-42mm mega OIS and I'm very happy with it. It's tiny, prime sized really, and sharp enough from wide open. I often use mine at its widest apertures and only stop down for depth of field rather than to also improve sharpness. Anyway, just something to think about if you're looking at the 12-32mm.
 
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#6
I have a GX9 and use the viewfinder 90% of the time.
Yes the evf isn't great, but don't really notice it any more.
Had a GX80 which prompted me to buy the newer model and yes it is definitely an improvement.
One thing that makes a big difference to the evf is the extended eyecup, well worth the less than twenty quid extra.

IBIS seems better on the GX9 and the extra mp's don't go amiss either
Also the low energy use Bluetooth is great, works very well as a shutter release with a smartphone
 
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#7
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#8
We bought me wife a used Oly E-M10 MkI and it's not bad to use - handles pretty well, and although the EVF isn't at Sony standards, it is usable. I can see the quality difference when pixel peeping vs full frame, but web-sized it's not so obvious.
 
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#10
I bought a Lumix GX-7 just under three years ago as I wanted something decent, but compact to take on holiday. I found that I almost instantly started using it far more than my DSLR as the small size made it very easy to take out with me in a way that the DSLR wasn't. It was even better when I got the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 pancake lens, which was practically glued to the camera once I got it.

Micro Four Thirds doesn't handle low-light situations as well as APS-C or full-frame, giving more noise, but not in any way that's likely to be a problem unless you really like to pixel-peep at your photos. Image quality on the whole is very good though, and I'm still very happy I bought it, and still use it frequently, and it's the digital camera that goes with me on trips.
 
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#11
Thank you everyone for replies, I think I'm leaning towards the gx9 over the gx80 as with current offers the prices don't d8ffer too much, and a nice prime lens, probably a 25mm.
Debating the gx9 with 12-32 and 35-100 or gx9 with 14-45 which is cheaper and leaves more money in the prime lens fund!
 
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#12
Thank you everyone for replies, I think I'm leaning towards the gx9 over the gx80 as with current offers the prices don't d8ffer too much, and a nice prime lens, probably a 25mm.
Debating the gx9 with 12-32 and 35-100 or gx9 with 14-45 which is cheaper and leaves more money in the prime lens fund!
Just been taking a few photos with my GX9 and PanaLeica 25mm f1.4, really is a nice lens and they go well together.
Found the 12-32 a bit small and fiddly, mostly use primes and have an old 14-45 for snapping days (no dual IS with this one)
 
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#13
Just been taking a few photos with my GX9 and PanaLeica 25mm f1.4, really is a nice lens and they go well together.
Found the 12-32 a bit small and fiddly, mostly use primes and have an old 14-45 for snapping days (no dual IS with this one)
I think I'm going for 12-32 as it's much smaller than 14-45 so easier to take out, but will probably instantly trade the 35-100 for a prime! I love a prime
 
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#14
Also worth considering is the Olympus E-M10II:

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk...rk-II-Camera-with-14-42mm-and-40-150mm-lenses

And also the Olympus E-M5II:

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk...s/Olympus-OM-D-E-M5-Mark-II-with-12-50mm-lens

Links are to new prices but personally I would buy used from a dealer that gives a warranty.
I was actually going for the Olympus but I missed the deal online and now the Panasonic deal seems better value. I for slightly favour the Panasonic in store but didn't look at them for very long as had my smallest with me!
 
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#16
Last year I actually had a GX-80 as a take anywhere kit myself. I bought 7-14mm, 14-140mm II and 20mm lenses (all panasonic). I was going on a 6 week trip with a 1 year old, and this IMO, was the best quality/weight/size compromise you can get.

It is an impressive travel kit. After carrying a Fuji X-T2 and 3 primes, I often found myself checking the bag to see if the camera is still there! It is much lighter. The image quality is slightly worse than the Fuji, especially at ISO 3200 or 1600. The lack of depth of field is obvious, but I admit I never did buy any of the fast aperture lenses.

That said, if I put all my "best of" images in a single folder, and put them on a 55" TV screen, well, I know which ones are taken with the Fuji, but I doubt you'd be able to figure it out. Also, video out of this camera is WAY better than Fuji, especially given dual image stabilization (camera and 14-140mm II lens working together).

Ultimately though, I couldn't justify two parallel systems (wasn't willing to give up the Fuji - for now), given how much (or little) I use my cameras. The other problem is, well, you still need a camera bag. It is lighter - a fair bit - but its still a bag you're carrying.
 
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#17
Just one thing to watch out for with these super-light cameras & lenses is shutter shock. I despaired of Olympus lens quality until I changed the settings to use electronic shutter - may or may not be an issue with the camera you buy.
 
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#18
Shutter shock is all but eliminated on the latest Panasonic cameras which includes the GX9.
Not sure of the exact details, but its to do with a redesigned shutter mechanism
 
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#19
Shutter shock is all but eliminated on the latest Panasonic cameras which includes the GX9.
Not sure of the exact details, but its to do with a redesigned shutter mechanism
Yup.

SS is a non issue with my GX80 and GX9.

I'm not sure camera body weight is the deciding factor as my G1 weighed next to nothing but worked fine with lenses that displayed SS with my G7 and GX7. No doubt lighter bodies don't damp the shock but the shutter mechanism is what's generating it. I assume the G1 had a different shutter mechanism.
 
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#21
The EM10ii has become my 'go anywhere' camera. I think it's excellent value. I have a Panasonic GM1 which is smaller - but the EM10ii has such a great feature set and is more versatile. If I'm travelling and don't want to carry my full kit then the EM10ii and a couple of lenses plus the 9mm lens cap get tucked into my bags somewhere.

I use it sometimes with the Panasonic 12-32 - there's no manual focus option when using that lens with the Olympus. I think at the price point the EVF is fine and the IBIS is effective - I sometimes mount a 135mm STF which is manual focus only - the EM10ii is the easiest camera I have used when it come to getting good focus with it - the IBIS makes it easy. I have a Neewer 400o flash which is a reasonable balance between size and power for travelling.
 
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#22
We bought me wife a used Oly E-M10 MkI and it's not bad to use - handles pretty well, and although the EVF isn't at Sony standards, it is usable. I can see the quality difference when pixel peeping vs full frame, but web-sized it's not so obvious.
The evf have improved a lot with upgrades, I don't know about the gx80 - some complain it's not great, others on here say they have no problems with it. I know the evf on my G80 is very good, when I got it first I had to double check there wasn't some dual OVF/EVF mode as I found it to be that clear.

As for noise, it is indeed one of M43's weaknesses, but there's varying types of grain, I prefer the 'noise' produced on M43 sensors to noise on some APSC sensors, like Fuji - though you do get more leeway with them. Up to 1600 there's rarely anything to complain about if you are exposing correctly, you just have to be that tad more mindful of it. Also, IBIS helps a lot when shooting still subjects. I can hand-hold up to a second on a good night and keep the ISO way down, where on other formats without IBIS I'd have to crank the ISO right up. There is always some compromise.
 
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#23
Just on the MFT v APS-C image quality debate.

I don't own an APS-C camera now but until recently I used to download raw files for new cameras and look at them on my pc and I do have to say that (for me and IMVHO etc) I haven't seen anything in APS-C that truly outclasses MFT in any real and significant way. The superiority of the much larger APS-C chip is IMO something that's overhyped online.
 
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#24
The superiority of the much larger APS-C chip is IMO something that's overhyped online.
I think it depends on usage case really. m4/3 with IBIS are usually better at slower shutter speeds and lower ISOs. APS-C are better at higher shutter speeds and ISOs.
m4/3 have a bigger depth of field at smaller apertures, APS-C have a smaller depth of field at smaller apertures. That's it.
 
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#26
Just on the MFT v APS-C image quality debate.

I don't own an APS-C camera now but until recently I used to download raw files for new cameras and look at them on my pc and I do have to say that (for me and IMVHO etc) I haven't seen anything in APS-C that truly outclasses MFT in any real and significant way. The superiority of the much larger APS-C chip is IMO something that's overhyped online.
I own an APS-C, as well as having logged some 50k shots with an E-M5. The IQ is better with an APS-C camera, but not that much difference. Other than shallower depth of field, APS-C doesn't really enable me to take any shots I wouldn't otherwise take. The difference between 1.5x, 1.6x and 2.0x crops just isn't as big as some internet warriors make it out to be.
 
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#27
That's the one in looking at, it's a great price and some very good photo examples on Amazon!
Recently bought an Olympus 25mm f/1.8 to compare with my PanaLeica 25mm f/1.4
Its sharper, but for some reason I prefer the original lens, but can't put my finger on why
Keep your eyes on the classifieds because I will be selling the Olympus soon for a goodly price
 
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#28
As mentioned above, Olympus 25mm f/1.8 now for sale in the classifieds for £175
Bit of a bargain and includes a genuine Olympus hood too
 
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#30
Thank you everyone for all the replies and advice, Ivs finally ordered the gx9 twin lens kit for £599 from jessops which seems a good deal, and a 25mm prime, really looking forward to hopefully taking some pictures of my little ones! :D
 
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#31
Thank you everyone for all the replies and advice, Ivs finally ordered the gx9 twin lens kit for £599 from jessops which seems a good deal, and a 25mm prime, really looking forward to hopefully taking some pictures of my little ones! :D
Sure you will like it, mine has become a firm favourite, can't find much wrong with it which must be a good sign
Spare battery is a must, don't expect much more than 250 shots from a full charge.
You can charge it from a powerbank, but can't be used with it plugged in.
Exp comp dial is not the easiest to operate, put mine on the rear dial now, much better
The extended eyecup is a real winner in my book and ordered a grip for it today, bought a larger lens and might need a bit more grip
 
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#33
Out of interest, if the gx80 and gx9 use the same evf can you use the gx9 eye cup on the gx80?
I don't think so, the housing on the GX9 is bigger because of the tilting action.
The grip is interchangeable though, its not a good design, no cut out for battery compartment
 
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#34
Just one thing to watch out for with these super-light cameras & lenses is shutter shock. I despaired of Olympus lens quality until I changed the settings to use electronic shutter - may or may not be an issue with the camera you buy.
I've only had one Olympus that suffered shutter shock, I sent it back and the replacement was fine. I've had three others all which have been fine. I would never use fully electronic shutter due to the risk of rolling shutter, but I can't see any drawbacks with using electronic first curtain shutter.
 
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#35
I've only had one Olympus that suffered shutter shock, I sent it back and the replacement was fine. I've had three others all which have been fine. I would never use fully electronic shutter due to the risk of rolling shutter, but I can't see any drawbacks with using electronic first curtain shutter.
I'm sure that there are drawbacks in specific instances and anyone interested can no doubt Google but I've used EFCS since I got my Sony A7 and have never seen any problems at all. Panasonic cameras don't have it. AFAIK. I'm sure I read somewhere that there's some technical limitation, Googling may provide answers.

However, I don't think that shutter shock is an issue any more with the latest Panasonic cameras. I've never seen any evidence of it with my shutter shock susceptible lenses on either my GX80 or GX9.
 
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#36
However, I don't think that shutter shock is an issue any more with the latest Panasonic cameras. I've never seen any evidence of it with my shutter shock susceptible lenses on either my GX80 or GX9.
They have redesigned the shutter mechanism which has practically eradicated shutter shock.
Think its from the G80 onwards that the newer designs starts from
 
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#37
I'm sure that there are drawbacks in specific instances and anyone interested can no doubt Google but I've used EFCS since I got my Sony A7 and have never seen any problems at all. Panasonic cameras don't have it. AFAIK. I'm sure I read somewhere that there's some technical limitation, Googling may provide answers.

However, I don't think that shutter shock is an issue any more with the latest Panasonic cameras. I've never seen any evidence of it with my shutter shock susceptible lenses on either my GX80 or GX9.
I didn't realise that penny don't have EFCS but if they've eradicated shutter shock then I guess it's not needed. I'd love to know how though as I thought all cameras had a chance of shutter shock, even DSLRs?

But you're right, there does appear to be some disadvantage of EFCS as I've just found this.
Screen Shot 2019-02-08 at 08.27.44.png
 
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#38
I'm sure I read somewhere that the lack of EFCS in Panasonic cameras is down to a hardware limitation... I could be wrong but that's what I remember and of course they could always put any extra processing power in or whatever else they need to overcome any hardware limitation. Whatever it may be. I believe Oly MFT cameras have it... so it's not impossible in MFT land :D

Yes, AFAIK some DSLR's have indeed suffered shutter shock but the key seems to be that only some lenses are susceptible and show it and it's difficult to understand what the problem is. I did a lot of testing to try and understand but I had to give up. For example it's not just small and light lenses as my old Minolta Rokkor 50mm f1.2 is a big fat lump and yet it clearly and consistently displayed SS on my Panasonic MFT SS affected cameras whereas the similar smaller and lighter f1.4 didn't. Made my brain hurt...

I never got to the bottom of it. I'm sure Panasonic and others will know what the design/build issues are but they're not saying.
 
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#39
I'm sure I read somewhere that the lack of EFCS in Panasonic cameras is down to a hardware limitation... I could be wrong but that's what I remember and of course they could always put any extra processing power in or whatever else they need to overcome any hardware limitation. Whatever it may be. I believe Oly MFT cameras have it... so it's not impossible in MFT land :D

Yes, AFAIK some DSLR's have indeed suffered shutter shock but the key seems to be that only some lenses are susceptible and show it and it's difficult to understand what the problem is. I did a lot of testing to try and understand but I had to give up. For example it's not just small and light lenses as my old Minolta Rokkor 50mm f1.2 is a big fat lump and yet it clearly and consistently displayed SS on my Panasonic MFT SS affected cameras whereas the similar smaller and lighter f1.4 didn't. Made my brain hurt...

I never got to the bottom of it. I'm sure Panasonic and others will know what the design/build issues are but they're not saying.
DSLRs can have it, although rare and rarely documented. They of course also can suffer mirror slap, hence DSLRs having mirror up function and EFCS. Still a mystery to me why you get it sometimes and not others though.

If I do go ahead and buy the EM1-II (highly likely) I don't think I'll have to worry about issues using EFCS though as I believe sensor readout is 1/60 now, and I tend to pan at 1/50 and slower (y)
 
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#40
I've only had one Olympus that suffered shutter shock, I sent it back and the replacement was fine. I've had three others all which have been fine. I would never use fully electronic shutter due to the risk of rolling shutter, but I can't see any drawbacks with using electronic first curtain shutter.
We bought ours used - no chance of returning that. Since it's being used for snaps then rolling shutter doesn't matter anything like as much as crappy soft pictures.

IIRC a similar effect used to be seen sometimes with old horizontal shutter film cameras.
 
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