TIME posts photographer's diary from Iraq

foodpoison said:
What do you mean by 'managed'?

I particularly liked the photos of the baptism, the sandstorm, the bringing down of the statue, and the outpost looking over the marketplace, if only for the subject matter.
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I mean, controlled, ie this is what we want people to think of us (the military). Invasion = good, just, we're the goodies, our troops are safe, powerful, in control, etc. Onward Christian soldier.
 
Oh, I 100% agree.

However, there is 2 sides to that story. And I enjoy looking at the other side too.

What I'm saying is that the skills required for some of these shots are fantastic - composing, exposing, focusing, all in a matter of seconds. Very very good stuff.
 
foodpoison said:
Oh, I 100% agree.

However, there is 2 sides to that story. And I enjoy looking at the other side too.

What I'm saying is that the skills required for some of these shots are fantastic - composing, exposing, focusing, all in a matter of seconds. Very very good stuff.
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Of course. Problem is, I think 'essays' such as this, are telling the wrong side. Obviously both sides, if there are just two sides to a war, need to be told. But anything that supports, or more worryingly, promotes, activities that are so clearly wrong.. well, that ain't right.
 
foodpoison said:
Doesn't mean I can't enjoy looking at the photography, which is primarily what I'm doing! ;)
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Maybe so, but I think there should almost always be something beyond the impressive technique or the aesthetic. Especially in this case, when really it should be viewed as irresponsible journalism at the very least (not necessarily the fault of the photographer). And beyond that, as a basic human act, the impact of publishing such work should be considered. After-all, it, and work like it, is assisting in perpetuating the situation. If people die as a result of a photograph, I don't care what skill or dedication was involved to obtain that image.
 
Almost wish I hadn't said I enjoyed the set now :shrug:

I hardly think that this photo essay is a piece of 'nasty propaganda'.
It may be slightly biased towards the marines.

This is a hell of a lot tamer than the Gaza photo essay a while back.
Now that was some propaganda had I ever seen any.
 
its a good set in a "were doing this for their own good" kinda way but im more for true war photography, sometimes its the only way of showing just what we do to people when our governments decide that its in our best interest to go kill random people in another country....
 
foodpoison said:
Almost wish I hadn't said I enjoyed the set now :shrug:
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Why? Debate is good, no? Are photographs not intended to promote discussion? Particularly in this context.

foodpoison said:
I hardly think that this photo essay is a piece of 'nasty propaganda'.
It may be slightly biased towards the marines.
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It's not the worst, but it's not great. I mean, it's still recording events that occurred, it's more the editing I'm uncomfortable with. Actually, saying that, I don't know what he shot, so maybe just the whole choice of what to shoot should be in question.

foodpoison said:
This is a hell of a lot tamer than the Gaza photo essay a while back.
Now that was some propaganda had I ever seen any.
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I must have missed that, do you have a link?
 
I like this, it has been very well depicted.

Shows the public whats really happening what the media dont show.
 
if you wanted to see whats really happening there would be alot more blood i think.
 
Jayst84 said:
You reckon? I was left under-whelmed by that series. A lot of it read as pretty nasty propaganda. With the exception of the bloody floor, it looked very 'managed' to me.
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Staged? A load of tosh. Typical opinionated student take on a real life subject from someone who hasn't got a clue.

Done the first gulf war, and bit few other things and the only thing that has been 'staged' to my eye is the rope picture, the blood trail, a bit too corny for my liking. Everything else, prety average - yes , uninspiring - yes, staged - nope - A sanctamonious summary of something thats as predictable as a student whinging about money, drinking lots and cracking one off when they get up in the morning - very predictable and ............oh yes b****cks!

Debate is useful when two or more informed opinions come togther. Head out of the books, and try some 'doing' before 'preaching'.
 
I think the problem with that series it that it doesn't feel balanced. The baptism shot in particular makes me cringe but then it is an American series and they like that God stuff, whereas I'm rabidly agnostic :P

I would have liked to have seen a little of the fallability of the allied troops, or impact on civilians caught in the middle. I'm not saying pictures of dismembered children, but there's a side to the conflict that feels conspicuously absent.
 
hiddybiddy said:
Staged? A load of tosh. Typical opinionated student take on a real life subject from someone who hasn't got a clue.

Done the first gulf war, and bit few other things and the only thing that has been 'staged' to my eye is the rope picture, the blood trail, a bit too corny for my liking. Everything else, prety average - yes , uninspiring - yes, staged - nope - A sanctamonious summary of something thats as predictable as a student whinging about money, drinking lots and cracking one off when they get up in the morning - very predictable and ............oh yes b****cks!

Debate is useful when two or more informed opinions come togther. Head out of the books, and try some 'doing' before 'preaching'.
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Now there's a pretentious retort if I've ever heard one!
No need for it really :shrug:

No one was being rude, granted maybe Jay might have been a bit off target but I didn't think it came off as 'preaching'.
Then you just ripped into him for being a student? That's how I saw it anyway.
 
Nice set of photos, because no matter how you look at them, they are telling a story even if you think it's skewed or not.

Personally, it may have been what this photographer saw and wanted to photograph.

I photographed some yummy gummy bears of different colours the other day. Should I also photograph the diabetic foot ulcers I see daily in the hospital?
 
Markk said:
I photographed some yummy gummy bears of different colours the other day. Should I also photograph the diabetic foot ulcers I see daily in the hospital?
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:lol::lol::lol:
 
hiddybiddy said:
Staged? A load of tosh. Typical opinionated student take on a real life subject from someone who hasn't got a clue.

Done the first gulf war, and bit few other things and the only thing that has been 'staged' to my eye is the rope picture, the blood trail, a bit too corny for my liking. Everything else, prety average - yes , uninspiring - yes, staged - nope - A sanctamonious summary of something thats as predictable as a student whinging about money, drinking lots and cracking one off when they get up in the morning - very predictable and ............oh yes b****cks!

Debate is useful when two or more informed opinions come togther. Head out of the books, and try some 'doing' before 'preaching'.
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Heh, what an odd reaction. I'm not sure where you're getting this whole 'staged' thing from, :thinking: I've not said anything was staged. In fact, I said the exact opposite a few times. But there you go, straw-man arguments are always easier to win, hey.

Debate is useful, we can agree there. Care to add something more constructive then?

Not that it matters, but I've never read a book relating to this topic.

Less assumptions would be a good way to go, too.


foodpoison said:
Now there's a pretentious retort if I've ever heard one!
No need for it really :shrug:

No one was being rude, granted maybe Jay might have been a bit off target but I didn't think it came off as 'preaching'.
Then you just ripped into him for being a student? That's how I saw it anyway.
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Was a bit OTT wasn't it. I still stand by everything I've said though, and fail to see how I'm off target. Control of the media, or one sided reporting is obviously a well known problem, and something which this story seems to suffer from.
 
Markk said:
I photographed some yummy gummy bears of different colours the other day. Should I also photograph the diabetic foot ulcers I see daily in the hospital?
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Comparing a piece of 'serious' photojournalism about the most contentious conflict of the last decade to a few snaps of some sweets. I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make?
 
mid_gen said:
Comparing a piece of 'serious' photojournalism about the most contentious conflict of the last decade to a few snaps of some sweets. I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make?
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I like how you used quotation marks around serious.

The point? Just because there are two sides to a story does not mean anyone telling one side is obligated to tell the other side.
 
Which is better then, a piece of journalism that is biased and only shows one side of a story.....or a piece that covers both sides and gives a balanced view?

That is the only criticism made of the series. It's not balanced, for whatever reason.
 
mid_gen said:
Which is better then, a piece of journalism that is biased and only shows one side of a story.....or a piece that covers both sides and gives a balanced view?

That is the only criticism made of the series. It's not balanced, for whatever reason.
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I never said it was better. I simply said that it it never had to be balanced in the first place. Tog's choice to choice what he wanted/wants.
 
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