To HSS or Not, that is the question

What is HSS ?
 
OK thanks
 
Yes in the main....

Do you need to freeze action? > Yes

Is perhaps subject dependant (I know you are trying to keep it simple)

By HS, are you meaning Hyper-Sync. Possibly another way to freeze action would be High Speed Flash?

Nice idea.
 
PhilH04 said:
Yes in the main....

Do you need to freeze action? > Yes

Is perhaps subject dependant (I know you are trying to keep it simple)

By HS, are you meaning Hyper-Sync. Possibly another way to freeze action would be High Speed Flash?

Nice idea.
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High speed flash will only freeze action when the ambient is low enough to not be recorded, by HS I am meaning any variant of tail sync such as hypersync

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
High speed flash will only freeze action when the ambient is low enough to not be recorded, by HS I am meaning any variant of tail sync such as hypersync

Mike
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Perhaps ambient levels in relation to flash ought to be included, but maybe that is making things too complicated... Thanks for the clarification.

Phil
 
Wouldnt you only use HSS if ambient light was high, otherwise if ambient was low it wouldnt record anyway and the "normal" flash duration would be sufficient?
 
Simple and effective, but I think that some simple, explanatory notes would be needed by some people, who don't know what HSS is, and/or who may confuse it with tail end sync, or with short duration flash
 
Garry Edwards said:
Simple and effective, but I think that some simple, explanatory notes would be needed by some people, who don't know what HSS is, and/or who may confuse it with tail end sync, or with short duration flash
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Sometimes when you understand something it is difficult to know what others do not understand, but certainly seeing some useful points here that could be added as notes

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
no, you can use HSS in low light to freeze action where a slow flash might not

Mike
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I thought hotshoe guns had a really short duration so the shutter speed isnt "that" important, namely if you set the shutter to X sync (1/250th perhaps in some cases or 1/60th in others) then the light captured was as a result of the flash power/duration which would be enough to freeze motion as the flash duration is very short, milliseconds as I understood it, which is what gives the effective shutter speed and not the one set on the camera (ignoring ambient and its effect for the moment).
With a high shutter speed set on the camera say 1/2000th doesnt the gun strobes in hss mode so as to provide enough light and also to avoid the curtain getting in the way and being recorded (as would happen if you set shutter high but didnt use the hss button on the flash). Doesnt that effectively record multiple images as the individual flash durations slow down appreciably which would show motion blur where you have a fast moving item?

Not trying to be argumentive, I havent tried HSS in low light with a high shutter speed and a fast moving item, so I really have no actual experience and just stating what I thought would be the case, your practical experience may well shoot me down and I would be very interested to see examples or an explanation.
 
Flash duration is often dependant on powersetting. With speedlights you need a very low output to get the short duration needed.
 
MatBin said:
I thought hotshoe guns had a really short duration so the shutter speed isnt "that" important, namely if you set the shutter to X sync (1/250th perhaps in some cases or 1/60th in others) then the light captured was as a result of the flash power/duration which would be enough to freeze motion as the flash duration is very short, milliseconds as I understood it, which is what gives the effective shutter speed and not the one set on the camera (ignoring ambient and its effect for the moment).
With a high shutter speed set on the camera say 1/2000th doesnt the gun strobes in hss mode so as to provide enough light and also to avoid the curtain getting in the way and being recorded (as would happen if you set shutter high but didnt use the hss button on the flash). Doesnt that effectively record multiple images as the individual flash durations slow down appreciably which would show motion blur where you have a fast moving item?

Not trying to be argumentive, I havent tried HSS in low light with a high shutter speed and a fast moving item, so I really have no actual experience and just stating what I thought would be the case, your practical experience may well shoot me down and I would be very interested to see examples or an explanation.
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Matt nothing wrong with what you say but many of the bigger newer studio battery lights that do HSS are much longer duration

Mike
 
High-speed sync is the ideal answer when the shutter speed needs to rise above max x-sync (for whatever reason) when it behaves exactly like continuous light - because that's what it is for the few ms while the shutter completes its cycle. HSS is also TTL capable while HS is not (High-Sync or Hyper-Sync, Super-Sync, Overdrive-Sync, Tail-Hypersync among other labels).

There is really only one drawback, and it's a big one, HSS loses a lot of effective brightness - like two stops or more. So does HS, and there are other issues, but not as much.
 
HoppyUK said:
High-speed sync is the ideal answer when the shutter speed needs to rise above max x-sync (for whatever reason) when it behaves exactly like continuous light - because that's what it is for the few ms while the shutter completes its cycle. HSS is also TTL capable while HS is not (High-Sync or Hyper-Sync, Super-Sync, Overdrive-Sync, Tail-Hypersync among other labels).

There is really only one drawback, and it's a big one, HSS loses a lot of effective brightness - like two stops or more. So does HS, and there are other issues, but not as much.
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Might look at the chart again to incorporate TTL

Mike
 
The main situation/origination point is "want/need to kill the ambient with flash" and I rather think you could have stopped with the first question... Need to freeze action? Yes= HSS/HS. No= ND. Although, if HSS is enough I may very well use that rather than getting involved w/ NDs.
 
mike weeks said:
Do you actually kill it normally? Personally I think the idea of action stopping is the first question

Mike
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Killing is probably the wrong word. HSS is useful for complementing ambient, balancing with ambient, as well as overwhelming ambient. There are lots of situations where HSS is very handy, but it always boils down to, a) need flash, but b) can't get the shutter speed down to x-sync. That's usually because ambient is either too bright, or you need a fast shutter speed for action-stopping, or want to use a low f/number for shallow DoF. For the latter, when you don't actually need a fast shutter speed, ND filters are a good option with the advantage that they don't reduce effective flash power.
 
Instead of maximise flash to ambient ratio, perhaps reword that as 'Need maximum flash power?' and give either NDs or HS as an option? You've got to draw the line somewhere, but it'd be handy to include a footnote or something to say that HS won't do TTL, only works acceptably with long-duration flash and will still result in significantly uneven exposure down the frame, plus it needs a trigger with adjustable sync off-set. Copyright: Hoppy :D
 
HoppyUK said:
Instead of maximise flash to ambient ratio, perhaps reword that as 'Need maximum flash power?' and give either NDs or HS as an option? You've got to draw the line somewhere, but it'd be handy to include a footnote or something to say that HS won't do TTL, only works acceptably with long-duration flash and will still result in significantly uneven exposure down the frame, plus it needs a trigger with adjustable sync off-set. Copyright: Hoppy :D
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Or simply do not believe everything Elinchrom says?

Mike
 
HoppyUK said:
Instead of maximise flash to ambient ratio, perhaps reword that as 'Need maximum flash power?' and give either NDs or HS as an option? You've got to draw the line somewhere, but it'd be handy to include a footnote or something to say that HS won't do TTL, only works acceptably with long-duration flash and will still result in significantly uneven exposure down the frame, plus it needs a trigger with adjustable sync off-set. Copyright: Hoppy :D
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And therein lies the problem...
What I think Mike is trying to do is to come up with an at-a-glance guide for modern flashes, that's as simple and effective as the old-time Kodak exposure chart or Phillips flashgun chart, which is very commendable and potentially very useful.
Problem is, modern technology has made even simple jobs complex, and rely on the users having a reasonable understanding of the jargon, as well as of the technology, and with different manufacturers/systems using different words to describe their version of the same thing, the explanations need to be fairly wordy, which kinds of defeats the purpose.
And then we need to add into the mix that the average Guardian reader has a reading age of 14, so if it's written for Sun readers (with an average reading age of 8) then the Guardian readers will find it patronising, and if it's written for Guardian readers the Sun readers won't understand it. Either way, it ends up as a full blown tutorial, if not a book.

I understand these problems because when I was working with Lencarta there were countless conversations with photogaphers who didn't know the difference between HSS, tail end sync, IGBT and conventional flash technology, and who wouldn't accept advice because they thought that their own understanding was right - and I'm talking here about some very successful and well-known photographers!
mike weeks said:
Or simply do not believe everything Elinchrom says?

Mike
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It's called advertising, you could just as easily make that comment about Profoto, or any other make.
 
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Flash at this advanced level is both complex and confusing. There's no getting away from that, it just is. You need to understand how it all works in principle, in some detail, then overlay all that with how different bits of equipment work together (or not!).

The best way around all that is to simply use HSS, which works seamlessly with all camera functions and can work just like normal flash with no more user intervention. You just have to accept that HSS runs out of puff quite quickly, the only drawback, and that's when you either need to compromise (eg move closer), or throw a lot more power at it, or consider alternatives like HS/NDs etc.

That would lead to a rather different flow-chart:
Need shutter speeds above x-sync? Use HSS.
Need more power? Get a bigger HSS flash - sorted. Or use HS or NDs with some downsides and limitations.

Edit: until recently, the option of simply getting a more powerful HSS flash unit wasn't available. You had to gang a whole bunch of speedlights together in a costly and cumbersome DIY rig. That has now changed (eg Godox etc) and what's more these new units work well and are relatively affordable. No brainer IMHO.
ps And pop a 2 or 3-stops ND filter in your pocket ;)
 
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Garry Edwards said:
What I think Mike is trying to do is to come up with an at-a-glance guide for modern flashes, that's as simple and effective as the old-time Kodak exposure chart or Phillips flashgun chart, which is very commendable and potentially very useful.
Click to expand...

Nail, head, far too many variables so was looking for a very simple answer for someone and could not find one so thought why not do it myself

Mike
 
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