Today taught me a sad lesson...

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Ferj

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A while back I gave up portrait and wedding photography. As I am a family man I reached a crossroads, leave secure employment to risk it all for my passion or not. I took the "sensible" choice, sold all my gear and took a break. Recently I have started shooting for fun so I have been clearing all the old stuff I had.

I stumbled across a set of wedding albums I had had done as samples which were no use to me anymore. There was a few hundred quids worth there probably, I didn't want to throw them and can't give/sell to anyone else, so I contacted the b&g. They had wanted an album but then went for a print only package. So being generous I said if they wanted these albums they could have them for £40. I would make a complete loss but I was happy if they went somewhere to be appreciated.

The reply I got back just saddened me. "is there any room for negotiation?"

I left a curt reply & they took them for the pittance I had asked. Is this really how much value photography now! I'm kind of glad I got out.
 
I feel your pain. The amount of times I've been asked to do shoots for people locally, only to be then told they have very little budget - but then proceed to request not only a full on shoot, but tonnes of prints to boot. I am doing such shoots no more. I make nothing from them, yet spend a week tweaking, re-tweaking and tweaking again to make sure the images are to their liking. Give them every processed image on disc, and order a load of prints, even ones they didn't ask for because I feel they're so nice. Thankless job. And the faces when you give them a final price ... you'd think you'd just murdered one of their family members!
 
Well ... you've got out the game but you've managed to take £40 for selling that album to the only purchaser in the world who might conceivably have bought it and which, remember, they managed to live without quite happily until you contacted them and offered it.

I'd be more optimistic and view that £40 as pure profit from a lump of clag!
 
Yves Geza said:
Well ... you've got out the game but you've managed to take £40 for selling that album to the only purchaser in the world who might conceivably have bought it and which, remember, they managed to live without quite happily until you contacted them and offered it.

I'd be more optimistic and view that £40 as pure profit from a lump of clag!
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Lol its so true! £40 is better than nothing :) it got me a nice lowepro bag for my new camera!
 
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Cagey75 said:
I feel your pain. The amount of times I've been asked to do shoots for people locally, only to be then told they have very little budget - but then proceed to request not only a full on shoot, but tonnes of prints to boot. I am doing such shoots no more. I make nothing from them, yet spend a week tweaking, re-tweaking and tweaking again to make sure the images are to their liking. Give them every processed image on disc, and order a load of prints, even ones they didn't ask for because I feel they're so nice. Thankless job. And the faces when you give them a final price ... you'd think you'd just murdered one of their family members!
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Sounds like a good business move ditch the clients that drain your time for little reward!
 
MWHCVT said:
Sad but it's a fact of life, lots of people are trying to save as muck money as possible...you see it everywhere even in the classifieds here ;)
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I guess we all like a bargain and most are having to tighten our belts. Sometimes I think some just take it too far!
 
Yves Geza said:
Well ... you've got out the game but you've managed to take £40 for selling that album to the only purchaser in the world who might conceivably have bought it and which, remember, they managed to live without quite happily until you contacted them and offered it.

I'd be more optimistic and view that £40 as pure profit from a lump of clag!
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Agree.
 
This isn't specific to photography. People will take whatever they can grab. Even if it's a bargain, they will want a cheaper deal (or better still, for "free").
 
Offer something for free and people want paying to take it away.
 
woof woof said:
Offer something for free and people want paying to take it away.
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Last year we were trying to get rid of our Panasonic 28" CRT telly. It was in great condition and the picture was superb.
We advertised it on Gumtree - £30 no takers.
Then I phoned up a few charity shops - cancer research, BHF, Shelter, and was told that they don't take the older CRT jobs, just later flat screens:shake:
So, I put it on Freecycle, and about half a dozen people later, managed to get rid of it.
We have leaflets through the door from "charities", asking for people to donate "nearly new or new" furniture - what has happened to the World?
The people who do not value photography, are the same ones who go to places like Nandos, KFC or Burgerking several times a week, and blow twenty to thirty quid each time on rubbish food.
 
In tens years time...... I dont think there will be many pro full time togs left.

A hand full will work in specialised industries... but mainstream is dying a death.. % friends I know a 2 large companies have closed shop over the last 6 months..

And 2 were superb and on the ball with latest styles and trends. all came down to people not wanting to pay for the service... They'd rather have a bad lit image from a phone etc......

....and those that do have money spend on a better compact or hi end phone so they dont feel the need to go to a pro Photographer.
We are doing very well (Fingers crossed) But I can think of nothing worse than having a day job and being a photographer on the side......

Sign o the times.
 
Daryl said:
In tens years time...... I dont think there will be many pro full time togs left.

A hand full will work in specialised industries... but mainstream is dying a death..



Sign o the times.
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I fear you could very well be correct bud.
 
andy700 said:
The people who do not value photography, are the same ones who go to places like Nandos, KFC or Burgerking several times a week, and blow twenty to thirty quid each time on rubbish food.
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Everyone values photography but some may only place a very low value on it. If its not important for them there is nothing wrong with that. In any case, you could argue the OP doesnt value it either, as he is letting an album go for £40.

I dont know how old the album is, but as someone said, the couple have got by for years with out it and do not need it.
 
Times change though. just after the war there used to be a photographer that worked our local beach taking just family shots, not many had cameras in those days, eventually cameras became affordable and he was out of a job. The advent of camera phones has meant that those who only rarely carried a camera now have instant access, and can also send to friends so easily with twitter and suchlike. This democrotization has made images less 'valuable' hence people will not pay for something they perceive as almost throwaway.
 
I think some people are just negotiators, I know a lot of people who will try to knock people down on everything everywhere. I'm not saying it's a bad thing mind, if the seller doesnt want to go lower then they can say so, and to be honest, I think some people who are used to being knocked down, setup there pricing to allow for it.
 
artyman said:
just after the war there used to be a photographer that worked our local beach taking just family shots, not many had cameras in those days, eventually cameras became affordable and he was out of a job.
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My father did that for a while just after leaving school. Later in life, he used to go to a large local hotel twice a week. Once to take photographs of guests and again to sell prints.

It's hard to imagine how either of those services would be viable now.


Steve.
 
I heard of a local tog who did a wedding last year for £400. When he gave the bride the album of photos, her father's comment was "£400 just for a book of photos?".

Personally, I don't know quite how the tog kept his cool.
 
DrGed said:
I heard of a local tog who did a wedding last year for £400. When he gave the bride the album of photos, her father's comment was "£400 just for a book of photos?".

Personally, I don't know quite how the tog kept his cool.
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And I bet they spent a LOT more than that on a cake.
 
Unfortunately, ive seen this kind of attitude in people a lot over the last couple of years, and it was one of the factors that led me to stop offering photographic services to the public. Ive never done it full time, but had a small business I operated at the weekends and evenings to fit around my full time job. It had been my opinion for a while that the skill and time involved really wasnt understood or valued. I can forgive people for maybe not understanding the amount of time and effort taken to produce a great looking finished product if they are not in the trade, and quite a lot of people would never know the difference between different sorts of albums and print papers, or how long each image might take to edit in post.

I think the final nail in the coffin (of my business and mental state), was when I was approached by a work colleague to do his Wedding photos. He didnt need to mention it to me, but I knew right off the bat, that his budget would be small. He is pretty much the bread winner in his house, as his now Wife only had a part time job that didnt pay particularly well. I told him what I would usually charge for the coverage he was looking for, but siad that I would do it for him for £250... (yes I know that is way too low, and id expect a few full time pro togs to hate me for that). At first, he agreed, and all was well.

Fast forward 2 weeks before the Wedding, and bearing in mind that he was a 'Friend', so there hadnt been any formal contract between us, he told me that he had decided to let his Cousin do the photos. I was curious to know if his cousin had done this before, and he told me that she had got a camera for her birthday (which was 3 weeks previous), and had absolutely no experience. The deciding factor? She was free of charge.

They spent the £250 on getting the Church to provide a Choir...yes I know...

Ive seen the photos, as he asked me to comment on them as he wasnt happy with them. I refrained from doing so.
 
TCR4x4 said:
And I bet they spent a LOT more than that on a cake.
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I don't think it matters if they did, each person will have different values for each element of their wedding. They might have valued the cake more than the photographs. I didn't choose my photos to be the main element of my wedding, my dress was
 
:LOL:
 
kelack said:
I don't think it matters if they did, each person will have different values for each element of their wedding. They might have valued the cake more than the photographs. I didn't choose my photos to be the main element of my wedding, my dress was
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I got married in Vegas. Cheaper and less hassle than a normal wedding plus we had an amazing honeymoon in Vegas, Hawaii and South Carolina. Can't remember the actual wedding cost, probably $600 or so and included disc of around 40 images.

Although I do value photography more now thsn i did then, I would still choose the same rather than a better tog and lesser honeymoon.
 
I don't think I could get any enjoyment out of photography if I had to treat it like a business.
 
Nikon_Nick said:
Unfortunately, ive seen this kind of attitude in people a lot over the last couple of years, and it was one of the factors that led me to stop offering photographic services to the public.
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Likewise.

I got fed up of offers to photograph someone's wedding, as if it were a treat for me.
Or being asked if I'd like to do a wedding "for the experience" or "for my portfolio". Erm... whose portfolio did you think I'd just shown you, dear?

And I got especially annoyed (at myself as much as anyone) for being persuaded to give workmates/friends of friends/etc.. a mate's rate, only for them to get flustered, decline, book someone else who cost more, and then moan to me afterwards that they didn't rate the guy they ended up using.
 
I work for a leading department store. And I very often get customers trying to negotiate service charges and delivery costs. And when they don't get what they want (cause I'm not a negotiative person, the price is X and that's what you pay) they get angry and either escalate the call to a team manager or make a formal complaint. Or cancel the order completely. Everyones out to get something for nothing, or a little cheaper.
 
Laudrup said:
Anyone with a trade will know full well about the dreaded mates rates.
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I may have mentioned before the time that my psycho hose beast ex asked me to do a special rate for her forth coming wedding

I said "yeah sure for you it will be £2k"

she pouted and said " that's rather a lot , I was hoping you'd do a special rate as its for me"

and I said " that is a special rate for you - normally I charge 800 quid" :LOL:
 
I think I would have told them exactly where to go to be honest, a goodwill gesture from yourself and they act like that! Like others have said though, common in our everyday society.
 
SiWatts90 said:
I think I would have told them exactly where to go to be honest, a goodwill gesture from yourself and they act like that! Like others have said though, common in our everyday society.
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Do u not think they may have thought the same?

"Cheeky git, wanted to charge us £xxx a few years ago, now trying to palm off a used album for £40".
 
I can't imagine woodcut makers and portrait painters were too happy about all those photographers destroying their nice jobs, either - at least, at the bottom end the market.
 
cambsno said:
Do u not think they may have thought the same?

"Cheeky git, wanted to charge us £xxx a few years ago, now trying to palm off a used album for £40".
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I'm not quite as cynical :) if someone offers me something in goodwill I tend to be thankful.
 
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