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Top end DSLR v Mirrorless AF shootout.
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People that have spent 20 mins trying out a CSC in a shop, straight from the box with perhaps the basic default camera settings, or don't have the latest firmware for the lenses are not going to get a full appreciation of what the camera can achieve. Case in point the Fuji X-T1. There are a few things you can do to make the AF work faster. Given Fuji's provenance to supporting regular camera firmware updates. I can only see this improving.
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Your spot on in regards Fuji - you only have to look at how much the X-Pro 1 AF improved. Even then though the AF on CSC's isn't going to be good enough for some people - fair enough there are things you don't expect a CSC to be used for like sports and motorsport.
Fundamentally though for me (and thats all anyone can go on is their own personal view on it) AF on the CSC's I've given a good shot of recently (EM1/XT-1) was nowhere near snappy enough for me and not as nailed on accurate in low light - fair enough I'm using a D800 and its a bit unfair to compare a £1100 or £1200 CSC with a £2000 full frame DSLR.
I was hoping for me as I was looking at selling the D800 and lenses for a Fuji setup but not at this point... would love to have the two of them though!
Gotta say I agree with Chris, Ive been through a lot of mirrorless cameras in the past couple years, there is a constant improvement but I eventually went back to a D700 and the AF is quite a lot better. It just gets the job done, instant lock and accurate in all types of light.
I will be getting another mirrorless soon though as I do miss having a smaller camera and size vs performance ratio is pretty amazing.
I will be getting another mirrorless soon though as I do miss having a smaller camera and size vs performance ratio is pretty amazing.
I've used a 10stop on my x-e1 and as they are full time live view and "gain up" they are great. I could compose and check focus with the zoom function without taking the filter on and off.
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Because manual focus is completely impossible when the screen is a snow storm and the lenses don't have any distance markings.
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I think that most people accept now that the best CSC and lens combo is faster, more accurate and very importantly much more consistent than the best DSLR and lens combo for static subjects. Of course if you buy a CSC and stick a crappy to focus lens on it you'll have crappy focus but the same is true of a DSLR and at least with CSC's there no MA silliness and no need to go through multiple lenses looking for one that matches your camera.
What I think that this vid shows is that CSC's are catching up with the moving stuff too and I'm surprised that they get so close to a top end DSLR.
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I've watched other vids by these people and no disrespect intended... but I wouldn't take anything they say as proof of... anything
I've watched other vids by these people and no disrespect intended... but I wouldn't take anything they say as proof of... anything
The guy you posted is also biased. Ive also seen his other reviews, all reviewers nowadays seem to be. The test performed was simple, of an everyday subject.
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Is he? He expresses his Fuji love but openly and clearly points out their weaknesses... and places them last. How fan boy is that? But in all of this it's best to engage your brain and try the stuff for yourself if at all possible. Indeed we've seen examples of action shots taken with CSC on this site multiple times so the evidence does seem to be that for some at least CSC are good enough for action shooting which does seem to be one of the last arguments for conventional DSLR's and CSC's are only going to get better at this.
When I posted this thread it was genuinely to express my surprise at the results and share and yet we see the same CSC v DSLR arguments most of which could be answered by testing the kit in question for yourself or asking for owner feedback. As we've seen, the same old criticisms and bias get raised and views are so entrenched that there's really little point in perusing the points beyond attempting to provide user feedback, just once.
I was a big critic of CSC myself and I had a love hate relationship with my GF1 and G1 but my latest buys, A7 and GX7 have pretty much answered my criticisms and all that I can personally complain about now is FBW lenses which aren't great for zone focusing and setting to a distance. I get over this by using manual lenses when I want those abilities.
What I would like to see instead of vague and/or unsupported criticisms is specifics such as body and lens combinations or shooting requirements and abilities which can be specifically answered by users, in another thread
Is he? He expresses his Fuji love but openly and clearly points out their weaknesses... and places them last. How fan boy is that? But in all of this it's best to engage your brain and try the stuff for yourself if at all possible. Indeed we've seen examples of action shots taken with CSC on this site multiple times so the evidence does seem to be that for some at least CSC are good enough for action shooting which does seem to be one of the last arguments for conventional DSLR's and CSC's are only going to get better at this.
When I posted this thread it was genuinely to express my surprise at the results and share and yet we see the same CSC v DSLR arguments most of which could be answered by testing the kit in question for yourself or asking for owner feedback. As we've seen, the same old criticisms and bias get raised and views are so entrenched that there's really little point in perusing the points beyond attempting to provide user feedback, just once.
I was a big critic of CSC myself and I had a love hate relationship with my GF1 and G1 but my latest buys, A7 and GX7 have pretty much answered my criticisms and all that I can personally complain about now is FBW lenses which aren't great for zone focusing and setting to a distance. I get over this by using manual lenses when I want those abilities.
What I would like to see instead of vague and/or unsupported criticisms is specifics such as body and lens combinations or shooting requirements and abilities which can be specifically answered by users, in another thread
I wasnt just referring to this video, I think someone else also commented in this thread. Not that it matters much as I mostly try the kit for myself, reviews are generally just someones own opinion and Id rather have my own after testing.
I agree, it is best tried for yourself with camera gear. I tried most of them and at the moment a mirrorless can't be my primary camera, like I said though they keep improving and perhaps in a couple years it could be, but for now they make an excellent grab n go for when I can't be bothered to carry a DSLR. If the A7r had a few fixes, more lenses (as we discussed) and the A6000 AF Id be happy to switch over. I think a lot of people do dismiss mirrorless to quickly, especially as they haven't even tried the system/s.
Ive also seen action shots with no AF at all!
Definitely in another thread, but it would be interesting.
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quote="woof woof, post: 6291859, member: 22277"]Is he? He expresses his Fuji love but openly and clearly points out their weaknesses... and places them last. How fan boy is that? But in all of this it's best to engage your brain and try the stuff for yourself if at all possible. Indeed we've seen examples of action shots taken with CSC on this site multiple times so the evidence does seem to be that for some at least CSC are good enough for action shooting which does seem to be one of the last arguments for conventional DSLR's and CSC's are only going to get better at this.
When I posted this thread it was genuinely to express my surprise at the results and share and yet we see the same CSC v DSLR arguments most of which could be answered by testing the kit in question for yourself or asking for owner feedback. As we've seen, the same old criticisms and bias get raised and views are so entrenched that there's really little point in perusing the points beyond attempting to provide user feedback, just once.
I was a big critic of CSC myself and I had a love hate relationship with my GF1 and G1 but my latest buys, A7 and GX7 have pretty much answered my criticisms and all that I can personally complain about now is FBW lenses which aren't great for zone focusing and setting to a distance. I get over this by using manual lenses when I want those abilities.
What I would like to see instead of vague and/or unsupported criticisms is specifics such as body and lens combinations or shooting requirements and abilities which can be specifically answered by users, in another thread[/quote]
Why would I want to spend my money buying something that i have doubts about to see if those doubts are valid or not. Cant see a dealer lending me a set up for a couple of weeks to carry out an extended test. I dont feel the need for a smaller camera or one that doesnt have a mirror. Why cant you guys who bang on about how great they are now and keep comparing them to DSLR's accept that some of us arent interested. Its good that they are improving and im sure they will get even better. Choice is good and hopefully everyone can find something that they are happy to use and fulfils their needs. Its quite obvious from this thread that only the very best of the CSC can be compared to a DLSR. My DSLR works just fine with all my lenses whether in manual or in auto. I AM HAPPY
When I posted this thread it was genuinely to express my surprise at the results and share and yet we see the same CSC v DSLR arguments most of which could be answered by testing the kit in question for yourself or asking for owner feedback. As we've seen, the same old criticisms and bias get raised and views are so entrenched that there's really little point in perusing the points beyond attempting to provide user feedback, just once.
I was a big critic of CSC myself and I had a love hate relationship with my GF1 and G1 but my latest buys, A7 and GX7 have pretty much answered my criticisms and all that I can personally complain about now is FBW lenses which aren't great for zone focusing and setting to a distance. I get over this by using manual lenses when I want those abilities.
What I would like to see instead of vague and/or unsupported criticisms is specifics such as body and lens combinations or shooting requirements and abilities which can be specifically answered by users, in another thread
[/quote]Why would I want to spend my money buying something that i have doubts about to see if those doubts are valid or not. Cant see a dealer lending me a set up for a couple of weeks to carry out an extended test. I dont feel the need for a smaller camera or one that doesnt have a mirror. Why cant you guys who bang on about how great they are now and keep comparing them to DSLR's accept that some of us arent interested. Its good that they are improving and im sure they will get even better. Choice is good and hopefully everyone can find something that they are happy to use and fulfils their needs. Its quite obvious from this thread that only the very best of the CSC can be compared to a DLSR. My DSLR works just fine with all my lenses whether in manual or in auto. I AM HAPPY
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Why cant you guys who bang on about how great they are now and keep comparing them to DSLR's accept that some of us arent interested. Its good that they are improving and im sure they will get even better. Choice is good and hopefully everyone can find something that they are happy to use and fulfils their needs. Its quite obvious from this thread that only the very best of the CSC can be compared to a DLSR. My DSLR works just fine with all my lenses whether in manual or in auto. I AM HAPPY
Spot on there Gary - its great we have all this choice in what camera we have but I'm sick of all the stories about DSLR killer - is the DSLR dead its rubbish.
Personally I can't get on very well with the size of the CSC's and actually prefer carrying my D800 & 24-70
I very happy with my Fuji,but i had no choice just couldn't carry the weight around anymore,and i do miss my D700 24-70mm combo
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As this thread is plugging the merits of cantrast detection AF it would be reasonable to think that contrast detection on a DSLR would be consistently more accurate than phase detection. and with older lenses and bodies this is confirmed by testing. But if you look at the Canon 5D MkIII for example used with the latest MKII lenses than the phase detection AF is just as accurate as using it in contraast detection mode and significantly faster.
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Why would I want to spend my money buying something that i have doubts about to see if those doubts are valid or not. Cant see a dealer lending me a set up for a couple of weeks to carry out an extended test. I dont feel the need for a smaller camera or one that doesnt have a mirror. Why cant you guys who bang on about how great they are now and keep comparing them to DSLR's accept that some of us arent interested. Its good that they are improving and im sure they will get even better. Choice is good and hopefully everyone can find something that they are happy to use and fulfils their needs. Its quite obvious from this thread that only the very best of the CSC can be compared to a DLSR. My DSLR works just fine with all my lenses whether in manual or in auto. I AM HAPPY
Who said you should or would?
And no, I'm not banging on about how great CSC are. My view has always been that it's just a form factor and form factor doesn't necessarily make something better or worse.
Personally I don't like small cameras per say but what I don't like is the bloated beast that the even average modern DSLR + lens has become compared to what many of them once were and for me a CSC is a return to a reasonably sized camera although the weight has still increased due to the gubbins inside a modern camera whereas the cameras of yesteryear were basically an empty box.
As I've said multiple times now, the point of posting this was to share the vid and my surprise at the closeness of the result.
As for not being interested, obviously you don't have to post about a topic you're not interested in.
Ye Gods...
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No it isn't, well, I'm not anyway... beyond the assumption that it must be better to take focus off the sensor rather than use another different device.
The point was to show the improvement in CSC in this review/test not to plug the merit of anything.
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As for not being interested, obviously you don't have to post about a topic you're not interested in.
Thats probably for me to decide not you.
The point was to show the improvement in CSC in this review/test not to plug the merit of anything.
And what are the main points about CSC's other than no mirror and contrast detection.
Thats probably for me to decide not you.
The point was to show the improvement in CSC in this review/test not to plug the merit of anything.
And what are the main points about CSC's other than no mirror and contrast detection.
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Not so. People are aware that there is more than one type of camera that will allow them to persue their hobby and get results that they are happy with. For some that is a DSLR, others a CSC, others a compact. Each has their own merits for that individual. For me the quality I get from my cameras is such that I dont need to investigate alternatives.
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I think it's healthy to keep an open mind and keep your options open. I used to think that way until I found better alternatives.
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It is - on non moving objects. The latest Canon lenses & bodies are better, but they aren't as good.
As CSCs only have contrast detection, they are faster than DSLRs as they have been developed further. The latest gen of CSCs seem to be doing almost as good a job of tracking autofocus as DSLRs.
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With the latest MKII lenses using 5D3 and 1DX its neck and neck between the two. And i still dont want A CSC
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Aha, best to save this quote...it is a matter of time before this one moves over to the dark side. Strong resistance are the first signs
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Aha, best to save this quote...it is a matter of time before this one moves over to the dark side. Strong resistance are the first signs
Agreed, I guess we've all ended up with flat screens now that huge CRTs have been pretty much consigned to history, likewise with vinyl etc (although I still have a treasured Rega Planar 3 with an RB300 arm that I switch on occasionally
).Technology marches on.
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Aha, best to save this quote...it is a matter of time before this one moves over to the dark side. Strong resistance are the first signs
If by "this one" you mean me than dont put your money down. As far as Im concerned i get everything I want from a DSLR for the type of photography I do. If I want to take holiday snaps then I might buy A CSC because as far as Im concerned thats all they are good for.
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LOL You will most definitely be a convert in the not too distant future....I've seen exactly those type of comments before when digital came out, when the iPhone was released, with Facebook....Heck if I was old enough I would have heard it through foreign food 
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LOL You will most definitely be a convert in the not too distant future....I've seen exactly those type of comments before when digital came out, when the iPhone was released, with Facebook....Heck if I was old enough I would have heard it through foreign food
Youre persistent if nothing else.
I can honestly say that I have picked up a couple but never with the intention of doing anything other than look. I dont chase technology. Yes I have bought what I consider to be the best camera for my interests but I have never been a "must have that" person. I didnt even have a mobile phone until 6 years ago and I had a massive CRT TV until they went to digital and I had to change it. Otherwise id still have it.
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No. A PDAF system can never be as accurate as a CDAF system by definition due to mechanical tolerances.... and then you have to worry about whether the lens, sensor and focus system are all perfectly aligned/calibrated etc.... which can be hit and miss.
I've had more keepers from CSCs than I ever had with DSLRs...
BTW: I have no interest in pushing CSCs on you, I'm just discussing their focusing systems
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You could have kept it if you bought a separate STB..... (and I'd agree with you CRTs are MASSIVE - but only in the weight sense, but not the screen size sense
)
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You could have kept it if you bought a separate STB..... (and I'd agree with you CRTs are MASSIVE - but only in the weight sense, but not the screen size sense
I know youre not pushing them on me Andy. I had so many bloody leads hanging out of the back of various bits of kit by my TV that i picked up a decent deal on a basic flatscreen. Also im as thick as a brick when it comes to technology. Some will say im as thick as a brick full stop, but even if I am it doesnt make me a bad man.
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Yeah... I know what you mean. Even my first flatscreen (picked up in 2008 no less) has to have a separate STB to get HD broadcasts. Technology moves so quickly these days....
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I've watched other vids by these people and no disrespect intended... but I wouldn't take anything they say as proof of... anything
Yes having also watched some of their content I'd have to agree with you, I'm sure they're a nice couple though.
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If by "this one" you mean me than dont put your money down. As far as Im concerned i get everything I want from a DSLR for the type of photography I do. If I want to take holiday snaps then I might buy A CSC because as far as Im concerned thats all they are good for.
Tongue in cheek I know but if taken seriously this sums up the stupidity of the position some people take.
A DSLR or CSC or rangefinder or compact or whatever a camera happens to be is a form factor and no guarantee in itself of either build, usability or image quality and I just feel like shaking my head is disbelief when folk on forums make even half serious statements like the one above.
Personally I couldn't give a flying what decisions other people make but I do hope that for their own sake they engage their brain first before making them
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I just like cameras, got compact (35mm and digital) CSC and DSLR (ff and crop) more the merrier works for me
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Tongue in cheek I know but if taken seriously this sums up the stupidity of the position some people take.
A DSLR or CSC or rangefinder or compact or whatever a camera happens to be is a form factor and no guarantee in itself of either build, usability or image quality and I just feel like shaking my head is disbelief when folk on forums make even half serious statements like the one above.
Personally I couldn't give a flying what decisions other people make but I do hope that for their own sake they engage their brain first before making them
Im sure that Im not alone in this attitude to CSC's. Head in the sand yes i agree but its just the way it is. Guys in work say to me "havent you got an iphone 5". its smaller, faster and its got Siri or whatever her name is. So what. Mine makes ace phone calls just as fast as the 5.