Top end DSLR v Mirrorless AF shootout.

Gaz J said:
Im sure that Im not alone in this attitude to CSC's.
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I don't think you are (whether tongue in cheek or not).... however misplaced that attitude is.... :D

An anecdote.... I picked up a photography magazine last year (I think - it may have been 2012). In it was a big article on CSCs vs DSLRs for studio photography. The lady writing it (she is a pro tog) made endless claims about how CSCs couldn't be used for off-camera flash and that the results could never be as good due to that as you couldn't get the lighting in the right position. Except I wouldn't have sold the 5D2 if my CSC couldn't do off-camera flash as I was doing product photography at the time. As woof woof says, some people really should engage their brain before speaking/writing!
 
the nex system back then might not of had a hotshoe or adapter, but ive done off camera flash with simple film cameras :)
 
Im not being tongue in cheek here Andy. I know that some will think Im a dick for adopting this attitude but so what. Im not saying I will never own a CSC but I will never own one for what I use my DSLR's for now. If I was interested in a different type of photography then perhaps I would be more receptive to them. But im not and for me the cameras that I own strike the best balance for me. As i have said before its great that cameras are so advanced and there is so much choice for everyone to find their ideal and if CSC cameras make their owners happy and get out and use them then that is job done in my eyes. Having said that Im old and grumpy so pretty much a lost cause.
 
I'm with Rich!
I use CSC, DSLR, SLR and rangefinders.
Photography is fun.

...and I'm older than Gary!
 
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Yeah but i like people to think im a real photographer by the size of my combo :whistle:
 
I couldn't care less what people think of my combo :)

It's not the size that matters...
 
pingu666 said:
the nex system back then might not of had a hotshoe or adapter, but ive done off camera flash with simple film cameras :)
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But I was already doing OCF with a CSC when the article came out (Panasonic G5) ;)
 
Gaz J said:
Im not saying I will never own a CSC but I will never own one for what I use my DSLR's for now.
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I have no idea what you use your cameras for, but if your avatar is anything to go by, birding is one area where DSLRs have the lead - simply due to having high-quality fast glass over 200mm EFL.... For me (who didn't have a lens over 200mm and I was using a FF camera), there was simply no question that MFT CSCs were "good enough" - they were. In fact, I ended up with faster lenses (changed from F4 to F2.8) and still ended up with change in my pocket from the swap.
 
arad85 said:
I have no idea what you use your cameras for, but if your avatar is anything to go by, birding is one area where DSLRs have the lead - simply due to having high-quality fast glass over 200mm EFL.... For me (who didn't have a lens over 200mm and I was using a FF camera), there was simply no question that MFT CSCs were "good enough" - they were. In fact, I ended up with faster lenses (changed from F4 to F2.8) and still ended up with change in my pocket from the swap.
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If it is for birding....I just did a camera size comparison between a 5d with 600mm and a m1 with 300mm (600mm equivalent...) quite fun to do...
 
arad85 said:
I have no idea what you use your cameras for, but if your avatar is anything to go by, birding is one area where DSLRs have the lead - simply due to having high-quality fast glass over 200mm EFL.... For me (who didn't have a lens over 200mm and I was using a FF camera), there was simply no question that MFT CSCs were "good enough" - they were. In fact, I ended up with faster lenses (changed from F4 to F2.8) and still ended up with change in my pocket from the swap.
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Yes i primarily take wildlife WIth a 5D3 & MkIV bodies. So crop sensor CSC's would be of no interest to me anyway as I am going to full frame completely next week with a 1DX. Llike many I have built up my kit over several years waiting until I could afford the lens I wanted in the L version and then buying it. So even if the latest CSC's were as good as or even better than a 1DX I still have too much invested into my gear to change. Maybe there will come a time when DSLR's are no more but I dont think I need to worry about that.
 
I watched this video the other day and found it fairly interesting too.

Chances are, ill never buy another DSLR again though. Why? Because a CSC can do everything id use a DSLR for even better in a smaller, lighter and better looking package. Im not a pro and I dont shoot sports, so this test was kinda irrelevant to me anyway but it was interesting to see given how everyone used to bang on about how the AF would never be as good and until it was theyd stick with their DSLRs.

I personally think DSLRs will be phased out at some point but not anytime too soon but it makes sense to.
 
The new Hybrid focus systems are a game changer.
Phase detection for speed and contrast detection for accuracy, give the best of both worlds.
Of course it is early days for on sensor phase detection, but the best are already so close to even the best DSLR's, that it will soon be the obvious choice for inclusion even on Pro reflex cameras. Which will do away with many of the problems of individual lens mis-focussing. Now that the in-camera processing power has increased so much a hybrid solution is on the cards at every level. Probably the next problem to be solved is the over shooting of the focus movement in a lens at high motor speeds. Most are being run at far lower speeds than they could be. It is all very well moving something quickly, if you can not break it equally quickly and precisely with out hunting.
 
Good news on the AF front with the new Sony A6000, review now up on DPReview http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a6000/7

It's AF tracking of moving subjects that is the CSC's Achilles Heel, and the best way to test that is with a subject moving towards the camera with shallow DoF. DPR has used a cyclist with 70-200 lens at f/4 - not the most difficult of subjects relatively speaking, but better than most reviews. I would confidently expect any DSLR to nail that 100%, but the Sony's hit rate of 70-80% is impressive. IMHO it's perhaps the best sign yet that on-sensor phase-detect AF has the potential to rival DSLRs.
 
arad85 said:
As woof woof says, some people really should engage their brain before speaking/writing!
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It's the irrationality and sweeping generalisations, often wrong, that make me wonder.

You may remember from another thread that I've ranted long and repeatedly about what I see as the shortcomings of MFT for how I want to use a camera but at least my complaints have been specific and mostly at least grounded in reality but I think that the complaints of others are sometimes less so.Drivel that I've seen on line such as CSC's can never match the image quality of DSLR's and stated facts such as there are no fast lenses for CSC's only slow kit lenses are just blatantly wrong and could be seen as such after 30 seconds Googling if one wanted to be objective.

IMVHO the tech is moving on so quickly that you just can't assume that what was true five years ago is true now. I have no issue with people preferring one camera over another for whatever reason but when comparing kit and what it's capable of I'd much rather see a more objective approach and specific and sensible criticism and comparison.
 
HoppyUK said:
Good news on the AF front with the new Sony A6000, review now up on DPReview http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a6000/7

It's AF tracking of moving subjects that is the CSC's Achilles Heel, and the best way to test that is with a subject moving towards the camera with shallow DoF. DPR has used a cyclist with 70-200 lens at f/4 - not the most difficult of subjects relatively speaking, but better than most reviews. I would confidently expect any DSLR to nail that 100%, but the Sony's hit rate of 70-80% is impressive. IMHO it's perhaps the best sign yet that on-sensor phase-detect AF has the potential to rival DSLRs.
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AF tracking is mainly a question of processing power and the use of patented algorithms. The optic control and hardware are far less important.
 
I've recently got hold of a Fuji X-E1 which is known to be a bit slow on the AF and trying to take pics of my kids at close range when they're moving (particularly towards you) is pretty much impossible. Only way is to move further away and increase depth of field. My Nikon D90 with 18-55G lens (both a good few years old) in the same circumstances would stand a good chance by comparision.

Saying all that the Fuji is still great - lovely to use and a great sensor. If it could match the AF of my D90 then the D90 would be long gone.
 
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