Tripod and head advice

CT said:
I do Hoppy. That shot was just taken ages ago for demo purposes. If I was going to use it in anger I'd drop that centre column lower so that it was resting on the nearest leg- stable as you like.
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;)

ShawWellPete said:
So it looks like I could do a lot worse than buying a Benro Carbon fibre tripod and ball head for less than £200... and maybe buy a panhead seperately.

I'm assuming the Benro has an offset rotating centre column?
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The model you've linked to is very small. Nice dinkly little thing I'm sure, but not what I'd choose - I would want the first number to be a 2 in the model code. If you want a really small and light one for travelling, also look at the fold-up Benro Travel Angel range (Gitzo Traveller copy). C-269 M8 with J-1 head was the one I fancied - decent height and fold very small being 5-sections http://cgi.ebay.com/New-BENRO-C-269...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a56a98164

The twiddly centre column model you want is called the Versatile range, like this http://cgi.ebay.com/BENRO-C-297-M8-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efc8da360

I think you also get a better price from that supplier if you get legs and head together (and a free spirit level!).
 
bostin said:
I had originally had similar views to you Hoppy on Benro, but this review put me off a bit, i know its a few years old but I wonder?

http://www.tomwebsterphoto.com/Essays/Benro/benroks2.htm
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I've seen that too - maybe that's why they changed their international trading name to Induro :shrug:

I've only recently got to know of Benro so no idea of what has gone on historically. But I've got a Benro tripod and head, bought a few months ago, which I bought unseen on the basis of informed comments and reviews around the web.

As far as I can tell the quality is absolutely first class and having now had the chance to compare it directly with the leading brands, I believe it not only looks like a Gitzo, but works like one too. And that is high praise. Plenty of other people think the same and I have not heard a bad comment from any new owners on here, and there are quite a few now.

I also rate that ebay supplier DC. Very fast service in a few days, replies immediately to emails, and somehow or other I have not got hit for any additional VAT/duty on my two transactions.
 
HoppyUK said:
;)
The model you've linked to is very small. Nice dinkly little thing I'm sure, but not what I'd choose - I would want the first number to be a 2 in the model code. If you want a really small and light one for travelling, also look at the fold-up Benro Travel Angel range (Gitzo Traveller copy). C-269 M8 with J-1 head was the one I fancied - decent height and fold very small being 5-sections http://cgi.ebay.com/New-BENRO-C-269...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a56a98164

The twiddly centre column model you want is called the Versatile range, like this http://cgi.ebay.com/BENRO-C-297-M8-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efc8da360

I think you also get a better price from that supplier if you get legs and head together (and a free spirit level!).
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Thanks very much for the advice :thumbs:

I wasn't particularly after a tiny one, in fact I need something that can hold a D700 with grip and a 14-24 2.8 or a 70-200 2.8. Any suggestion?
 
ShawWellPete said:
So it looks like I could do a lot worse than buying a Benro Carbon fibre tripod and ball head for less than £200... and maybe buy a panhead seperately.

I'm assuming the Benro has an offset rotating centre column?
Click to expand...

Well it looks like the legs splay wide which is good, but the centre column seems to be the same as the one you have. In practice that means that centre colum hanging below the head will limit how far you can splay the legs to get low UNLESS you continually raise the centre column in periscope fashion which sort oifdefeats the object.

You can no doubt reverse the head on the column so the camera hangs down (like the one you have). This is absolute pants as it means trying to work the camera and the menus screens upside down (a recipe for madness) -not to mention crawling between the legs to try to get your eye to the viewfinder.
 
Best ballhead available in the UK would be the Arca Swiss Z1, available from Robert White.

The RRS stuff is good but only available direct from the USA, current exchange rates and import duties make it an expensive option.

Another option would be Markins I believe made in Korea, available from HERE

Tripod choice is simple a Gitzo, will last a lifetime I have the GT3531 but there are various models depending on your needs. I should add my first Gitzo lasted me 30 years before I passed it on to a friend, still working perfectly, I only replaced it as I wanted to move to Carbon Fibre.
 
ShawWellPete said:
I wasn't particularly after a tiny one, in fact I need something that can hold a D700 with grip and a 14-24 2.8 or a 70-200 2.8. Any suggestion?
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Well there's notheg majorly heavy in your kit their Pete. I don't think you need to go OTT with the tripod - there's loads which will suit. Perhaps choose on weight if you're going to hump it around a lot? Spend the real wonga on the head.

If you anticipate heavier gear at any stage though it changes the game a bit - hence try to buy it once if you can. :shrug:
 
CT said:
Well it looks like the legs splay wide which is good, but the centre column seems to be the same as the one you have. In practice that means that centre colum hanging below the head will limit how far you can splay the legs to get low UNLESS you continually raise the centre column in periscope fashion which sort oifdefeats the object.

You can no doubt reverse the head on the column so the camera hangs down (like the one you have). This is absolute pants as it means trying to work the camera and the menus screens upside down (a recipe for madness) -not to mention crawling between the legs to try to get your eye to the viewfinder.
Click to expand...

So maybe I'm better off with my original idea...

ShawWellPete said:
Thanks Duncan,

I have just been reading an article by Scott Bourne here and he is singing the praises of Induro tripods.

I have priced up the following

Induro 4-Section Carbonflex Tripod Series 2


Induro 3DL34 3-Way Panhead


Induro DM01 - Ballhead with Manual Drag Control

In that kind of budget, should I be looking elsewhere or is that a pretty good system? I am thinking about buying both the heads so I then get the option to play with either.

If anyone feels that somebody who doesn't know know a ball head from a balloon knot shouldn't be spending so much on a tripod and clearly has more money than sense then I get your point and you are probably right.
Click to expand...
 
HoppyUK said:
I've seen that too - maybe that's why they changed their international trading name to Induro :shrug: .
Click to expand...

I'm fairly sure that Benro makes the Induro product for someone else to distribute - certainly in the US both brands are available, it wouldn't make too much sense to have the same distributor selling both.
 
ShawWellPete said:
So maybe I'm better off with my original idea...
Click to expand...

Based on the Induro kit you're looking at there I would suggest looking at these - most similar spec I can find - and like I say I like the stuff

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-giottos-mtl8361b-adjustable-column-carbon-fibre-tripod/p1025876

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-giottos-mh1301-652-series-ii-ball-head/p1025890

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-giottos-mh5001-3-way-head/p1025885

Warehouse Express prices always seem to be keen, but check out Morris Photo, foto sense and Harrison cameras - had good service from them all.
 
ShawWellPete said:
Thanks very much for the advice :thumbs:

I wasn't particularly after a tiny one, in fact I need something that can hold a D700 with grip and a 14-24 2.8 or a 70-200 2.8. Any suggestion?
Click to expand...

My outfit is similar to yours, so I would suggest the combo I've got - Benro C-257 with J-2 head.

However, if you want a similar size tripod with the tilting column, that's the C-297 Versatile.

On the other hand, if you want really compact but still a decent size, then maybe the folding C-269 Travel Angel. I don't think there is any significant performance penalty for this design, other than to fold it properly flush you need a slightly smaller head to fit between the legs, eg the J-1.

I have posted links to all of these.

All these basic models are available with different numbers of leg sections, according to preference. If you're normal height, 2-series should be fine. Another TP member bought a Benro C-357 last week, but he's six-foot-seven.

If you're feeling flush, in addition to a top quality ball head, get a Manfrotto 410 Geared Head and a spare short centre column to put it on, for quick changes as and when. And for longer lenses, get a Benro gimbal head to complete the set :thumbs:

Perfect :) But that's just my choice. Others may advise differently and so long as we're talking quality gear, which we have been, you're unlikely to be disappointed either way.
 
Hi Pete,

I bought the Benro kit from that supplier a few weeks ago. I can highly recommend him and the tripod and J-2 head. The head is beautifully made as is the tripod, the tightening screws on the centre column even have minature ball races beneath them so everthing works smoothly, very well engineered and certainly up to Gitzo standard IMO. I have previously bought the Benro GH-2 head from the same supplier, again indentical to the Wimberely.

I think HoppyUK on here as bought some Benro stuff from the same supplier and is also pleased with the products and level of service. Sent tripod Monday arrived in Scottish Highlands on Friday and I could track it all the way.

I have just ordered from the same supplier a larger tripod the C-397 with a geared centre column, that will be sent on Monday. If he does not have what you want in stock he will order from Benro and let you know, he is really getting a good reputation.

I also have the 410 head, bought a long time ago, it is a great piece of kit, perfect for lanscapes and some macro work. It does take a little time to set up compared to ball heads.

I hope this helps with your decisions.... good luck.

Paul.
 
I can't see you goiing far wrong with that kit Pete. :thumbs:
 
HoppyUK said:
In all honesty, does anybody actually use a tripod like in that pic, apart from in advertisments? I can see the benefit of having legs that splay wide and low, but that angled column has got to be so unstable and makes the whole thing quite a lot heavier.
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Yes - used mine just last week.

I use a Giottos T-pod, very pleased with the build quality. For me my buying decisions were around build quality + versatility + stability + rigidity.

Weight did not reallt come into it, unless you have the cash for carbon (and I did not), then all the above buying criteria = weight (especially when you put a decent head on top). If you want to use a T-pod for landscape work and you want all the things above then you just have to live with lugging it around.
 
HoppyUK said:
Gitzo and Benro are in a class of their own. You can read and compare the specs for yourself but doing Hoppy's Secret Wobble Test side by side, these two are just more rigid with less flex in the platform particularly, and also the legs.
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After reading your comments about the Benro I thought I would purchase one on the strength of what you said. However, before I did - I carried out a few checks and not everyone seems to be that impressed by them.

Here is a review and while the its not the most professional impartial review I have ever read - it does ask some serious questions about the so called quality of the product:

http://www.tomwebsterphoto.com/Essays/Benro/benroks2.htm

Any comments or have the quality of their products improved since then?
 
razor777 said:
After reading your comments about the Benro I thought I would purchase one on the strength of what you said. However, before I did - I carried out a few checks and not everyone seems to be that impressed by them.

Here is a review and while the its not the most professional impartial review I have ever read - it does ask some serious questions about the so called quality of the product:

http://www.tomwebsterphoto.com/Essays/Benro/benroks2.htm

Any comments or have the quality of their products improved since then?
Click to expand...

Your checks didn't include reading post #43 of this thread ;)
 
HoppyUK said:
Your checks didn't include reading post #43 of this thread ;)
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:D Touche- indeed, mainly I was looking at the earlier posts in this thread and thought 'Benro, this sounds good - lets have a look' and then obviously came across the link. The flip side is that this was back in 2007 and the bottom of the link indicates that they have actually been in touch with the link poster trying to resolve problems.

It would be nice if I can find some some more recent reviews of their gear - so the search continues; will be a few out there I reckon.
 
Am waiting for my Benro C268 J1 head combination from DC stuff on ebay, will post a quick verdict as soon as it arrives, hopefully tomorrow!

PS thanks to Hoppy for the recommendation for Benro via DC stuff, sure looks good.
 
Whether this helps or not:

I have a Manfrotto 190Cx Cf Tripod-3S and Manfrotto 322RC2 Heavy Duty Grip Ball Head

I wouldn't change them for the world. I use them for all sorts of photography and find the tripod easy to carry but sturdy for photography, and the ball grip is great as it allows quick and accurate movement, (it has a spirit level on it), letting me catch birds as well as the perfect landscape...
 
Ok.
I will drag out the same link I drag out every time I see one of these threads appear on the internet. It's like playing whack a mole.

http://www.bythom.com/support.htm


I had a Manfrotto 055b. It transmitted vibrations more readily than a tuning fork. I also had a heavy Manfrotto 468 ballhead. Cost a packet, wasn't very nice.

I upgraded to a carbon fibre Benro 257 and bought a Markins M20 head. http://www.markinsamerica.com/MA5/M20.php
The head is superb, the benro legs though, I wish I'd bought the 357 series as a friend of mine did. The 257 just isn't sturdy enough.

If I had the strength, I'd order a Berlebach. http://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=produkte&kategorie=1&sprache=english


Finally, after all the mucking around and still not having the right thing (Need to sell my 257 series legs and buy the 357 series, then I might be nearly happy) I use a beanbag more than I use the tripod anyway.

There's a chap on this forum who sells them from www.camerabeanbags.co.uk for a very moderate price and frankly, no tripod comes close in terms of weight, convenience and vibration damping ;)

Don't make the mistake of playing the tripod upgrade game. Drop proper money on a proper support, if you don't like it at least it will re-sell for a similar value.

A note toward the manfrotto grip heads. They are convenient for studio work when you're shooting flash, and for high-shutter work. They raise the camera away from the tripod support a considerable amount, so for critical work tend to allow the mirror-slap vibration to go ape. That's largely moot if you shoot with MLU, but it's worth noting the difference between a device that will merely hold the camera in place, and one that will hold it still without vibrating.
 
This is where its gets difficult for people choosing - I disagree with both these posts, at least from the perspective of my own personal use, which I think is fairly typical, as is the equipment I use. And it's not as if you can go into your local dealer and see for yourself - most places only have a pathetic range.

MadFrankie said:
Whether this helps or not:

I have a Manfrotto 190Cx Cf Tripod-3S and Manfrotto 322RC2 Heavy Duty Grip Ball Head

I wouldn't change them for the world. I use them for all sorts of photography and find the tripod easy to carry but sturdy for photography, and the ball grip is great as it allows quick and accurate movement, (it has a spirit level on it), letting me catch birds as well as the perfect landscape...
Click to expand...

Manfrotto 190 is too small. I am average height but can't use one standing up without a lot of extension on the centre column, which is death to stability.

The 322 action grip has its virtues, namely speed, but is heavy and very poor at fine adjustments for landscape and studio work.

Denyerec said:
Ok.
I will drag out the same link I drag out every time I see one of these threads appear on the internet. It's like playing whack a mole.

http://www.bythom.com/support.htm

I had a Manfrotto 055b. It transmitted vibrations more readily than a tuning fork. I also had a heavy Manfrotto 468 ballhead. Cost a packet, wasn't very nice.

I upgraded to a carbon fibre Benro 257 and bought a Markins M20 head. http://www.markinsamerica.com/MA5/M20.php
The head is superb, the benro legs though, I wish I'd bought the 357 series as a friend of mine did. The 257 just isn't sturdy enough.

If I had the strength, I'd order a Berlebach. http://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=produkte&kategorie=1&sprache=english

Finally, after all the mucking around and still not having the right thing (Need to sell my 257 series legs and buy the 357 series, then I might be nearly happy) I use a beanbag more than I use the tripod anyway.

There's a chap on this forum who sells them from www.camerabeanbags.co.uk for a very moderate price and frankly, no tripod comes close in terms of weight, convenience and vibration damping ;)

Don't make the mistake of playing the tripod upgrade game. Drop proper money on a proper support, if you don't like it at least it will re-sell for a similar value.

A note toward the manfrotto grip heads. They are convenient for studio work when you're shooting flash, and for high-shutter work. They raise the camera away from the tripod support a considerable amount, so for critical work tend to allow the mirror-slap vibration to go ape. That's largely moot if you shoot with MLU, but it's worth noting the difference between a device that will merely hold the camera in place, and one that will hold it still without vibrating.
Click to expand...

If a Benro 257 is not strong enough, you must be putting some serious weight on it. It's a sturdy mid-range tripod, very close to your Manfrotto 055 in overall size - why didn't you just buy a bigger one in the first place? I would say that going bigger than that is not necessary for most people though. If you have a very heavy camera or a big fast prime then maybe the 357 is better suited but you don't say so. Actually I think the 397 is a better bet for that, but there you go - that's mainly because I like the idea of the interchangeable platform that you can use on its own and absolutely solid, or drop in the optional geared centre-column, subjectivity again.

Others will go for the neat, and very short for packing, folding Travel Angel design; or the version with the tilting centre column; or the other clever one where a leg unscrews to make a monopod. And so it goes on, each to their own.

The Berlebach is a cumbersome and heavy wooden thing...:thinking: What's the problem with vibration anyway? I accept it's a potential issue, in theory, but mirror-lock up is an instant cure - red herring.
 
HoppyUK said:
What's the problem with vibration anyway? I accept it's a potential issue, in theory, but mirror-lock up is an instant cure - red herring.
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I thought that was what tripods were trying to avoid. I'd say vibration is a big no no when it comes to tripods. Mirror lockup doesn't help if your tripod moves during a 1/6s exposure at 400mm (and yes, I was shooting exactly that a couple of weeks ago)
 
Just to add, that I use a Gitzo GT3540LS for my long lens work but I am really tempted by a Benro lightwieght jobby for landscapes - they look to be great products
 
grumpybadger said:
I thought that was what tripods were trying to avoid. I'd say vibration is a big no no when it comes to tripods. Mirror lockup doesn't help if your tripod moves during a 1/6s exposure at 400mm (and yes, I was shooting exactly that a couple of weeks ago)
Click to expand...

I was making a distinction between camera-induced vibration (mirror-slap) and general movement/wobbling.

If you don't want wobble, then just get a decent tripod and don't extend the centre column more than a couple of inches. Job done really.

For mirror-slap, then that's more difficult. Generally speaking I think you can largely ignore mirror-slap as a practical problem, although if you are going to the trouble of using a tripod then MLU just seems like good practise anyway.

However, it exists and can be a problem in particular situations - I would say the situation you site paul, with 400mm lens that is both long (high magnification) and heavy, and shooting at 1/6sec which is right in the critical zone between say 1/20sec and about 1/8sec very roughly.

These are the speeds which catch the full extent of slap - shorter and it goes unnoticed, and at longer speeds any blurred part of the exposure is concealed by the longer sharp part. IS is very helpful at reducing this, so I don't turn it off until speeds get longer than this.

Long lenses obviously magnify any movement or vibration a great deal, plus you've got the weight and leverage things going on. Manfrotto make a neat little strut that supports both ends of a long lens/camera http://www.morrisphoto.co.uk/ProductDetails~productID~5400~categoryid~213.html Another good trick is to rest a bean-bag on top of the lens/camera (one with beans in, not polystyrene). Alternatively, just use you hand - if you're steady the damping effect of your hand both holding the camera at one end and resting on top on the lens at the other won't induce movement and will kill vibration.

Basically, long lens photography needs extra care, extra equipment and special techniques. Sorry Paul, I know you know this - just in the interests of general debate :)
 
HoppyUK said:
If a Benro 257 is not strong enough, you must be putting some serious weight on it. It's a sturdy mid-range tripod, very close to your Manfrotto 055 in overall size - why didn't you just buy a bigger one in the first place? I would say that going bigger than that is not necessary for most people though. If you have a very heavy camera or a big fast prime then maybe the 357 is better suited but you don't say so. Actually I think the 397 is a better bet for that, but there you go - that's mainly because I like the idea of the interchangeable platform that you can use on its own and absolutely solid, or drop in the optional geared centre-column, subjectivity again.
Click to expand...

It was partly financial complaint and partly that the numbers on the 257 looked good enough. In practice, however, the 257 is a tripod that will hold the camera in place, the 357 is a support that will hold the camera still.

Had the 397 been available at my time of purchase (When I bought, the 6 line was new, the 8 line did not exist) I would have bought that without hesitation.

MLU solves a lot of vibration issues, but is not suitable for all subjects. IMO a c357 and Markins M10 is a good compromise of all variables, being neither too heavy or too large to detract from everyday use whilst being solid enough to be useful for critical work. It is of course not cheap, but what in photography is?

(On Berlebach or Stabil, try shooting macro on anything less and all of a sudden you'll wish you had a wooden support :D )
 
HoppyUK said:
I was making a distinction between camera-induced vibration (mirror-slap) and general movement/wobbling.

If you don't won't wobble, then just get a decent tripod and don't extend the centre colum more than a couple of inches. Job done really.

For mirror-slap, then that's more difficult. Generally speaking I think you can largely ignore mirror-slap as a practical problem, although if you are going to the trouble of using a tripod then MLU just seems like good practise anyway.

However, it exists and can be a problem in particular situations - I would say the situation you site paul, with 400mm lens that is both long (high magnification) and heavy, and shooting at 1/6sec which is right in the critical zone between say 1/20sec and about 1/8sec very roughly.

These are the speeds which catch the full extent of slap - shorter and it goes unnoticed, and at longer speeds any blurred part of the exposure is concealed by the longer sharp part. IS is very helpful at reducing this, so I don't turn it off until speeds get longer than this.

Long lenses obviously magnify any movement or vibration a great deal, plus you've got the weight and leverage things going on. Manfrotto make a neat little strut that supports both ends of a long lens/camera http://www.morrisphoto.co.uk/ProductDetails~productID~5400~categoryid~213.html Another good trick is to rest a bean-bag on top of the lens/camera (one with beans in, not polystyrene). Alternatively, just use you hand - if you're steady the damping effect of your hand both holding the camera at one end and resting on top on the lens at the other won't induce movement and will kill vibration.

Basically, long lens photography needs extra care, extra equipment and special techniques. Sorry Paul, I know you know this - just in the interests of general debate :)
Click to expand...

All fair points and a useful contribution. For the 1/6s shots, I was resting my hand on the top of the lens.
 
HoppyUK said:
This is where its gets difficult for people choosing - I disagree with both these posts, at least from the perspective of my own personal use, which I think is fairly typical, as is the equipment I use. And it's not as if you can go into your local dealer and see for yourself - most places only have a pathetic range.



Manfrotto 190 is too small. I am average height but can't use one standing up without a lot of extension on the centre column, which is death to stability.

The 322 action grip has its virtues, namely speed, but is heavy and very poor at fine adjustments for landscape and studio work.
Click to expand...

Well, FWIW, I'm 6ft 1 and have no problem with the tripod and have no problem with the grip for landscapes as, lets face it, they aren't going anywhere so you can spend as much time as needed to sdjust perfectly.

I actually think the speed issue is important as I can very quickly modify the angle for more action shots where required...

But, having said all that, it's everyones personal choice and I suppose that's why we now have 3 pages of replies!!! :clap:
 
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