Turning pro - its not for everyone!

[Mirus Lux]

Apologies for the long post, I got carried away

Lured by the temptation of making money from my hobby about 2 years ago, I set up my own portrait business, running alongside my main job. I had been asked to photograph a wedding which spurred me on.

Now, I did it all properly with insurance, tax and an accountant etc so no worries there, and I haven't lost any money either. I secured a couple of nurseries and a school and have slowly been building my reputation locally so it all seems good right?

Long story short, I have decided to close the doors (effectively speaking) and there are a couple of reasons why.

Firstly, was how much people under value photography. In my area I did a survey and had a few surprising results such as the number of people expecting 100 shots on a disk from a shoot for under £50... Also, while people were prepared to pay £20 booking fee they wanted that discounted off the disk and other products (seriously!).

Pricing is always a contentious issue do I don't really want to get bogged down with that.

Secondly, and most importantly for me was my enjoyment of photography itself. I used to love taking pictures and suddenly I found myself bogged down with loads of kit, constantly marketing and all the other stuff that running a business needs.

So I write this, not as a woe is me type thread but as a warning to those teetering on the edge of taking the jump. Whatever the magazines that they churn out on how to make your fortune taking photos say, (and there is the chance you can have an amazing, glittering career surrounded by the best kit) sometimes the simple life is just better and in the words of a fairly famous film "I choose life".

So I am trading in my DSLR and have a hankering for a Leica or Fuji X100 or something like that and I look forward to sharing these images with you (for free!) soon!

PS.One other thing from the survey (of about 100+ people) oddly 100% said is they were paying for a pro photographer for portraits given the choice they would want them in a studio, so if you are setting up give that some thought too

 

[Daryl]

Saying that you could do what i did for 20 years and work for big companies. you just get paid to shoot.

being a pro Photographer is not about being self employed.

i would never do anything else..... Has tobe photography related.

 

[PDub]

Im not a professional or even close to becoming one in profession or in experience but i totally agree with you that the general public have no clue on photography.

I've done a couple of weddings and since then ive had been asked to quote on doing more, all of which, some 6-8 quotes, have been turned down as they wanted it cheaper. I'm amazed at some of the prices people are charging as welll and how theyre making a living out of it. I personally wouldnt get out of bed in the morning for some of the money thats asked by some people, be it a company or by the people who want the photos.

I feel for you, but you seem to have drawn a line in the sand and moving on to other things. Good luck with it.

 

[Matt989]

Id agree that doing it 'on the side' is a major chore and id also agree that generally people are very suspicious of "professionals" who come out their home....but rather than give it up im going to throw myself into it fully and go full time (See our Studio Build Thread). For me its all or nothing, I'll never go back to part-time as I now realise just how precious my spare time is!

Asking people how much they are prepared to pay for something is a red herring, sit the same people down infront of a stunning picture of their first child and tell them the stunning framed print they want at 60"x40" is £1000+....then you'll really get an idea about what they are willing to spend!!

 

[PCPhil]

Well you came out the other side intact and happy to talk about your experience. In a completely different field I tried to turn something I was good at and enjoyed into a career. Got out before I went ever so slightly mad.

Fair play for sharing your thoughts.

 

[specialman]

Saying that you could do what i did for 20 years and work for big companies. you just get paid to shoot....

I'm salaried and it's a great way to shoot. The freelancers we use who have very regular work love it too, because it's almost like guaranteed work for them.

I'd love to set up on my own but aside from the obvious money issues of leaving a full-time job, I'm not sure if I'm ready to work with the general public yet

 

[Mirus Lux]

I agree finding a salaried position is probably perfect however even those are reducing (look at the newspapers moving to public submissions). I know there is a wide variety of photography roles in different genres and would encourage anyone to follow their dream.

I liked the idea of being my boss and still do and I would most likely approach it differently if I tried again I don't regret it, I have learnt loads, but for me right now its not the right thing!

As noted, it was to share experiences. Sometimes. I feel photo magazines make it sound so easy to go and make your fortune, so I wanted to address the balance

 

[specialman]

....Sometimes. I feel photo magazines make it sound so easy to go and make your fortune, so I wanted to address the balance

Agreed, even the 'pro' mags at times make it sound like you just buy a camera and the work will find you.

 

[simonblue]

I agree finding a salaried position is probably perfect however even those are reducing (look at the newspapers moving to public submissions). I know there is a wide variety of photography roles in different genres and would encourage anyone to follow their dream.

I liked the idea of being my boss and still do and I would most likely approach it differently if I tried again I don't regret it, I have learnt loads, but for me right now its not the right thing!

As noted, it was to share experiences. Sometimes. I feel photo magazines make it sound so easy to go and make your fortune, so I wanted to address the balance

Have to adgreed,sometimes its all they talk about.

To me you can do as a living very nice,it work for some not others.
You can do it as a hobby,as something you enjoy doing,not really looking to make any money.
Or it can be a passion for you,a big part of your life, in which you can sometimes make a living,most times not making enought to live on ,your driven by it, photographer

 

[fracster]

Agreed, even the 'pro' mags at times make it sound like you just buy a camera and the work will find you.

Is that not how it works though?.............

 

[KIPAX]

In my area I did a survey and had a few surprising results such as the number of people expecting 100 shots on a disk from a shoot for under £50... Also, while people were prepared to pay £20 booking fee they wanted that discounted off the disk and other products (seriously!).

As part of your business plan you should have done this BEFORE you turned pro.. not after

No good blaming everyone else for your failure...

 

[jamesoliverstone]

Well, after my wife and kids did a runner last year I was forced to stop being a self employed photographer and trainer and go back to a career that paid vastly more money.

Luckily for me I work for a company where I have 2 jobs, my day job and as a documentary photographer and now I get paid to travel and take photographs.

I found that being employed as a photographer has in fact made my life so much better as generating the clients and the business, plus the actual day to day of running a business never really appealed to me, I just enjoyed being behind the camera and teaching people.

So, being a pro (as mentioned before) doesn't mean always being self employed, I find that being employed is a much better way to go (for me).

Although I will admit that these kind of jobs are few and far between!

Always always follow your heart though and be true to what you really want out of life. If I thought that a job would jeopardise the way I feel about photography I would quit and do something else. Its too important to me.

 

[ShoeQueen]

Its something I'm considering but not rushing into.

I've already decided in the past against turning something I love into a job/business as I wanted to keep it as a hobby. And I'm glad I did that. I've also gone back to study to turn something I enjoy (teaching) into a job. And I'm glad I did that too.

So I'm taking my time to see which photography falls into for me. My teaching job is in FE and its not likely to be anything full time in the near future meaning I have a few spare days each week and nearly 3 months over the summer free. I love portrait photography, love interacting with people as well as the photography side.

So now I'm exploring how I feel about the 'running a business' side. I'm in no rush - all this time is useful in learning more, developing my skills, learning about lighting and posing and will not be wasted time as whether I go into business or not, I still want to be a better photographer.

 

[Phil V]

Following redundancy in 1990 I set up as a full time pro, it turned something I loved; photography, into something that almost vanished from my life for 6 or 7 years. A complete disaster!

Although I did all the prep work and business plans etc. the marketing and admin was just something I had no talent or desire for. If I could have secured a post working for someone else, I'd have loved it, but I wasn't built for the constant pressure of finding customers, it really got me down.

Fast forward 20 years and I'm back to loving photography, and running a small business. Marketing is still my Achilles heel but it's something I'm putting effort into. And I have no desire to be full time, photography is an escape from the day job and the day job has its own rewards.

 

[Mirus Lux]

As part of your business plan you should have done this BEFORE you turned pro.. not after

No good blaming everyone else for your failure...

I understand your logic here and yes I should, and I did. I did a more recent survey to find out what was happening at the moment.

At no point am I blaming anyone else for my failure, not sure where that came from...!

It's interesting to hear others talk openly about their situations, James it sounds like you have it sussed now Like you Phil, I may well go back to it - and hope I will, but for right now I felt this was the decision for me!

 

[Daryl]

I have done my own thing for last 4 years. and biz is booming and growing. Up 35% on last year.

Over the next few years I will end up shooting less and less..... As I become a Desk jockey.

I would go back to working for a large firm any day.

No paper work etc.. time taken up in marketing is more than anything else.

I'm envious of James as those were the days for me...

I'm a tog and have been all my working life. Running your own business is for paper shovelers.....

Best way to go it it alone is in my opinion. Partner up with a someone who is in marketing and/or business minded so you concentrate on the photography.

Solo is for people who are unemployerble or who don't being told what to do.

The thing that anoys me is being a Pro Photographer is not all about being Self Employed.
And that is what 90% of togs seem to gone about all the time. There is more to being a full time Pro than being self employed.

Would love to see more employed Pro togs posting on here so others wanting to go full time do not have to think it's all about getting loans and marketing.

There is a big world out there......

 

[grum]

Interesting thread, especially for someone who has recently started as a self employed photographer. Still have a part time 'day job' and I'm not sure at the moment what I want to do longer term.

Business and marketing doesn't come naturally to me at all and I am not great at admin, but I was thinking making myself learn would be good experience.

We'll see how it pans out I suppose. This thread is kind of putting me off though!

 

[RjLPhotography]

For anyone turning a hobby into something which can make them a sustainable profit as a source of income is never going to be an easy affair. I know i'm not the best photographer in the world, when it comes to certain styles or techniques, but I try my damnest to achieve a look that I want out of the lens and am happy with.

The key thing here is 'happy with', if you don't enjoy doing something you are good at then imho it reflects on the service you are wanting to offer. I do a bit for family/friends/freelance but in a saturated market already I know turning what I do already into making money is nigh impossible. It's a bit like flying in that you have the hobbyists and you also have the paid commercial pilot's, being a hobbyist however still doesn't take away the experience and enjoyment of doing it.

 

[jamesoliverstone]

I have done my own thing for last 4 years. and biz is booming and growing. Up 35% on last year.

Over the next few years I will end up shooting less and less..... As I become a Desk jockey.

I would go back to working for a large firm any day.

No paper work etc.. time taken up in marketing is more than anything else.

I'm envious of James as those were the days for me...

I'm a tog and have been all my working life. Running your own business is for paper shovelers.....

Best way to go it it alone is in my opinion. Partner up with a someone who is in marketing and/or business minded so you concentrate on the photography.

Solo is for people who are unemployerble or who don't being told what to do.

The thing that anoys me is being a Pro Photographer is not all about being Self Employed.
And that is what 90% of togs seem to gone about all the time. There is more to being a full time Pro than being self employed.

Would love to see more employed Pro togs posting on here so others wanting to go full time do not have to think it's all about getting loans and marketing.

There is a big world out there......

I couldn't agree more

Solo is for people who are unemployerble or who don't being told what to do.

This really made me chuckle though I love how you say it how it is

 

[jamesoliverstone]

Oh, and don't be so envious of me though Daryl... I am here in the philippines on a completely wasted trip, still recovering from what I can only imagine was some form of horrid dyssentry in the boring hot hell hole that is Manila... Oh to go back to thailand again

Oh, and last night I ended up with broken glass in my rice... I swear this hotel is trying to kill me.

Still, I got a free load of rum for the inconvenience... which by the way I am now drinking my way happily through

 

[grum]

For anyone turning a hobby into something which can make them a sustainable profit as a source of income is never going to be an easy affair.

I did the same thing with music - I am a musician/DJ/producer - I was in a boring office job and started volunteering with a community music charity. That's now my 'day job - running workshops etc and organising gigs and events. It's mostly great fun but the sector is really struggling now due to a lack of funding.

I am a little wary of turning another hobby into a job, I still enjoy music a lot but it's not the same carefree fun for me as it used to be. I find now I take photographs for money I don't go out just for fun half as much (though I genuinely really love photographing weddings and some of my other paid work).

 

[Mirus Lux]

Oh, and don't be so envious of me though Daryl... I am here in the philippines on a completely wasted trip, still recovering from what I can only imagine was some form of horrid dyssentry in the boring hot hell hole that is Manila... Oh to go back to thailand again

Oh, and last night I ended up with broken glass in my rice... I swear this hotel is trying to kill me.

Still, I got a free load of rum for the inconvenience... which by the way I am now drinking my way happily through

It's a tough job but someone has to eh?!?

 

[specialman]

... Would love to see more employed Pro togs posting on here so others wanting to go full time do not have to think it's all about getting loans and marketing.....

Great point. For me, working like that and within a niche industry, there is more job security, although there's rarely 100 per cent certainty I feel. It's as good as you can get though I feel.

 

[DropDead]

What I don't understand is people say I want to make money out of my hobby, your saying that going to nursery's and taking portrait photos is your hobby?

I get paid for my hobby, taking photos of things that interest me such as Music, Cars, Wakeboarding, BMX, Skateboarding.. I never understood why anyone thinks taking pictures of a nice landscape and stuff then decides to go 'pro' and take photos of school kids, weddings and other 'generic' photographic services... Completely baffled by this thought of going pro.

 

[Mirus Lux]

What I don't understand is people say I want to make money out of my hobby, your saying that going to nursery's and taking portrait photos is your hobby?

I get paid for my hobby, taking photos of things that interest me such as Music, Cars, Wakeboarding, BMX, Skateboarding.. I never understood why anyone thinks taking pictures of a nice landscape and stuff then decides to go 'pro' and take photos of school kids, weddings and other 'generic' photographic services... Comqpletely baffled by this thought of going pro.

That isa very good point and another one of the other reasons I have reassessed my work as I seemed to follow that rather than finding my niche. For anyone thinking about starting don't follow the "easy money" of weddings and portraiture shoot what you love!

 

[KIPAX]

I get paid for my hobby, taking photos of things that interest me such as Music, Cars, Wakeboarding, BMX, Skateboarding.. I never understood why anyone thinks taking pictures of a nice landscape and stuff then decides to go 'pro' and take photos of school kids, weddings and other 'generic' photographic services... Completely baffled by this thought of going pro.

Agreed... My hobby was shooting sports.. Now I am full time freelance sports Photographer.. (just about)

I would rather work in a supermarket sweeping floors than become a wedding or portrait photographer ...(no dissrespect to any floor sweeping supermarket workers meant)

 

[simonblue]

Oh, and don't be so envious of me though Daryl... I am here in the philippines on a completely wasted trip, still recovering from what I can only imagine was some form of horrid dyssentry in the boring hot hell hole that is Manila... Oh to go back to thailand again

Oh, and last night I ended up with broken glass in my rice... I swear this hotel is trying to kill me.

Still, I got a free load of rum for the inconvenience... which by the way I am now drinking my way happily through

Got stuck in Manila,for just over 2weeks once,in a very cheap hotel,with a massive cyclone,just of the coast,making the temperature unbearable,no how you feel about Manila

 

[Daryl]

Only reason I got into photography was to shoot women taking there clothes off or a fantastic lanscape with a naked woman in the corner.....

When I have a Horse shoe haircut I'll start shooting cars and collectors fayres.......

Wakeboarding? Trouble sleeping? BMX? Gave that up when I was 12years old, even then the bike was too small.....

 

[Rankbadyin]

I meet well known Magazine names and "Award Winning" Landscape photographers up here on the west coast of Scotland trying to earn a crust with 6-8-10 Pupils in tow on a regular basis. They will also organize a trip to exhotic lands, or just City walks, all for a fee.
I'm trying to remember that old saying "those who can, do, those who can't teach"

 

[jamesoliverstone]

Only reason I got into photography was to shoot women taking there clothes off or a fantastic lanscape with a naked woman in the corner.....

at least you are honest How is that working out for you?

I meet well known Magazine names and "Award Winning" Landscape photographers up here on the west coast of Scotland trying to earn a crust with 6-8-10 Pupils in tow on a regular basis. They will also organize a trip to exhotic lands, or just City walks, all for a fee.
I'm trying to remember that old saying "those who can, do, those who can't teach"

What about those of us who can.... and also enjoy teaching?

Got stuck in Manila,for just over 2weeks once,in a very cheap hotel,with a massive cyclone,just of the coast,making the temperature unbearable,no how you feel about Manila

Yup, this place sucks the big ones....

 

[Daryl]

hahahah, the plan was good for a awhile. then went self employed and it all went out the window. No time for fun, no time for what I loved shooting. Still shooting everyday and making money from the 2nd best job in the World.

Now at Crufts this Week end and 90% of our business is shooting kids....

I think I turned the wrong way at the traffic lights....... the plan went wrong somewhere... Never work with children and animals. Kids make money but they bite, smell and carry every jerm known and not known to man.

CGI work was going well... Woman with guns and cool outfits..... Sword and sourcery. Calendar work on hold again.

I'd be happy shooting the Marshall Ward catalogue year in yerar out.....

 

[Noah_]

What I don't understand is people say I want to make money out of my hobby, your saying that going to nursery's and taking studio portrait photos is your hobby?

Completely baffled by this thought of going pro.

This is a pretty valid comment, if I went professional it'd never be self employed. It was once my dream but then I woke up & realised it's just not realistic for me which is a shame. I've decided I'd LOVE to work in a darkroom, maintaining it & teaching others how to utilise it or perhaps for a proofessional {film} developing & printing company. I'm only nineteen & have years ahead of me to get to where I want to be but I'm one of those who going 'pro' just isn't for. Best wishes to anyone who does!

 

[Daryl]

Any one can go Pro, it does not mean you have to be self employed. the most exciting jobs employed are for companies or Government.

Only way you will work in a dark room now Ashly is being a teacher at college. and even then in a few years will they still teach basic dark room/lab techniques?

beppers belief why anyone who loves photography would want to work in an office as a main job.....

Unless you are turning more £50k a year do what you love if it's not the money you want?

Only other job I'd want to do other than being a tog is a pilot. But then mates that are pilots tell be it's boring being a caretaker of a an airliner.

 

[Noah_]

Only way you will work in a dark room now Ashly is being a teacher at college. and even then in a few years will they still teach basic dark room/lab techniques?

A fair point I suppose. Kingston College of Art & Design still teach their students 80% darkroom based techniques using black & white film. I like to have faith in the traditional film industry & I honestly hope it doesn't die out, whether I actually follow a career in it. A girl can dream I suppose :}?

 

[grum]

Agreed... My hobby was shooting sports.. Now I am full time freelance sports Photographer.. (just about)

I would rather work in a supermarket sweeping floors than become a wedding or portrait photographer ...(no dissrespect to any floor sweeping supermarket workers meant)

I never thought I would but I really enjoy wedding photography. I think as long as you can put your own stamp on it creatively it's all good.

Sports photography on the other hand.....