Two cameras and Yongnuo triggers. Why won't they work?

mickledore

mickledore

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Don't know if anyone can help me on this, or if it's just a system problem.
We are shooting with two 5D bodies. One a Mk2 and one a Mk3. We have Yongnuo RF 603 Mk2 triggers cabled in and fired by a handheld 603 Mk2.
Everything seems fine and we get images on both cameras.

Then we attach a flash conroller to one of the cameras to use OCF. (We have tried a variety of contollers and guns but it changes nothing.)
When we fire the trigger from the handheld 603 the flash guns - 580 Mk2 - fire, and both shutters operate. But...we only get an image on the camera with the flash unit attached. The second camera has just a dark image. It appears that the second camera is only operating it's shutter after a delay that is longer than the flash duration.

Does anyone know what is happening and is there a way to overcome this so that we can get identical images on both cameras? Is this a feature of Yongnuo triggers, or something else?
 
I suspect you're asking too much of various sync speed options. Thats a lot of stuff to get in sync without camera 2 talking at all to the flash.
 
Thank you. Yes, I thought that, but the power leaving the handheld is constant to both cameras. Unless the camera without the flash is going off first, and the one with the flash control needs to build up more power from the signal. Sounds odd, but might be an explanation.
 
It's not clear exactly what you're using (what's a 'flash controller'?) or wanting to achieve. Though there must surely be a way.

What exactly is it that you want to do?
 
Well it's a long story, but you asked...

We were underground, two of us. We both had cameras with us. We were in an area were we were in a "photogenic position" and wanted to take a shot. (We don't live near each other so difficult to swap RAW files after the event.) So set up 2 cameras. We use one remote - a 603 - to fire the cameras, which both have a 603 wired in to control the shutter.This "seems" to work fine, but in daylight we can't really tell if there is any delay or not.

But it's dark so we need flash. We had my controller, a 622TX, and a pair of 622s on the base of the flashes. Pressed the button and flashes went off, both shutters operated, but the only image was on the camera with the TX on top. We tried swapping things over and the same result. Next time we took my mates flash gear - Yongnuo flashes and his controller (Sorry don't know the models) but just the same result. The camera with the flash controller on it records an image. The camera without records just a dark image.

Obviously the two shutters are operating at different times, but which is going off first we can't tell. There is a delay in there, but where it is, why it is or how to overcome it we don't know.

We've tried other systems - Fuji and Nikon with the same results. It doesn't appear to be specific to any one make of camera. I wonder if it is something to do with Yongnuo's operating method
 
And perhaps make clear if the cameras are set to manual or TTL for the Flash. If it's the latter, only one camera can be in communication with the flash.
 
HarveyM said:
And perhaps make clear if the cameras are set to manual or TTL for the Flash. If it's the latter, only one camera can be in communication with the flash.
Click to expand...
Now that's interesting. I didn't know that. And I'm not sure how the flashes were set - I would assume manual but wouldn't like to stake my life on it. But if the second camera didn't expose for the flash then surely the flash light would cause over exposure? Have I got that right? That's assuming that both shutters were triggered at the same time.
 
mickledore said:
Now that's interesting. I didn't know that. And I'm not sure how the flashes were set - I would assume manual but wouldn't like to stake my life on it. But if the second camera didn't expose for the flash then surely the flash light would cause over exposure? Have I got that right? That's assuming that both shutters were triggered at the same time.
Click to expand...
No
Assuming both triggers got the fire command at the same time, camera 1 sent an ETTL pre flash command, calculated the amount of flash required, then hit fire on the shutter. Meanwhile, camera2 just fired (before the flash magic happened).

There'd be less delay with manual flash, but I think it's probably measurable nonetheless.
 
Thanks. I understand the bit about TTL, that makes sense. But I'm almost certain that we would have been using manual - that's our default option. You mention a delay with manual, but why does that occur? There is no need for a pre flash. Is it just that manual flash "automatically" causes a delay whenever it is used. As you say it may be small, but if we have a delay of, say, 1/200 the camera without the flash would have fired.

I suspect that it is the non flash camera that is firing first as there is no hint of light at all on those images.
 
mickledore said:
Thanks. I understand the bit about TTL, that makes sense. But I'm almost certain that we would have been using manual - that's our default option. You mention a delay with manual, but why does that occur? There is no need for a pre flash. Is it just that manual flash "automatically" causes a delay whenever it is used. As you say it may be small, but if we have a delay of, say, 1/200 the camera without the flash would have fired.

I suspect that it is the non flash camera that is firing first as there is no hint of light at all on those images.
Click to expand...
If it's 'really dark' try a SS of 1/15 or similar, that should take account of a reasonable delay.
 
The controller is your issue, it is causing the delay in the radio signal.
The flashes need to be on the cameras otherwise it will not work. Don't know what the controller is or what it does but throw it away to :) and you will get the result you need.
 
Is that true for every use of OCF? Obviously with just one camera it isn't a problem. It's just that we're trying to be clever.

Why do triggers have a delay in them or is it an unavoidable feature of radio triggers?
 
Camera 1 has one trigger to activate the shutter and the flash is on the camera so it acts as normal.

Camera 2 has on trigger to activate the shutter (same as camera 1) but then has another trigger ( the controller) which causes the second delay to the flash.................hence flash fires late

You still have not explained what he controller is or what it is for?

What you need and what to do,

You need 1 trigger and two receivers. Hard wire both cameras to the receivers to activate the shutter from the triggers. make sure all are set to the same frequency. Place the flash units on the cameras and you are good to go.

This will work regardless of manufacturer
 
I've read you post again, you are firing the cameras with the 603's but one camera has a 622TX on the hotshoe to fire both flashes which are sitting on 622's?
 
Just use 603's on the cameras and flashes, that should work fine, tried it with a couple of Nikons and 2 yongnuo yn.560's and it worked fine, I think the problem your having is trying to mix systems, the delays between the 603 and the 622 are probably different.
 
admirable said:
I've read you post again, you are firing the cameras with the 603's but one camera has a 622TX on the hotshoe to fire both flashes which are sitting on 622's?
Click to expand...

Sorry I was out all last night. Yes that's the set up used.
 
mickledore said:
Then we attach a flash conroller to one of the cameras to use OCF. (We have tried a variety of contollers and guns but it changes nothing.)
When we fire the trigger from the handheld 603 the flash guns - 580 Mk2 - fire, and both shutters operate. But...we only get an image on the camera with the flash unit attached. The second camera has just a dark image. It appears that the second camera is only operating it's shutter after a delay that is longer than the flash duration.
Click to expand...

In your first post, do you mean the controller and the flash unit are the same item or does one of the cameras have a flash mounted on it and the other flash is off camera?

By controller I take it you mean a trigger?
 
Yes, thank you. There is no flash mounted on either camera. Perhaps my terminology is lacking a bit.
What I call triggers are the 603 that we are using to activate the cameras. These do not operate on the flash units at all. By the controllers I mean the 622 TX on the hotshoe of one camera. The two off camera flash units are each mounted on a 622 which is controlled/triggered by the tx when the shutter activation tells the hotshoe to send a message.
 
It is confusing because Yongnuo call them 'flash trigger controllers'

1/ Are all the batteries fully charged?

2/ Are both flash units on the same group on the controller and are both flash units set to manual on the controller?

3/ Are the 622TX and 622's set to the same frequency/channel?
 
Yes I agree it is confusing. In answer to your questions I would say Yes to all three. Everything works as we expect except that one shutter seems to fire before the other. Only marginally but enough to miss the shot.
 
Do you think it's the shutter out of sync or the flash? I presume the SS on the non firing camera is below the sync speed?

It's just a process of elimination
 
I think that in some way the signal to operate the shutter is being interfered with. I am assuming that the 603s are operating the electronics to move the shutter at the same time. This is a very long guess, but I think the camera with the flash controller on it is opening after the one without. It's a long shot but I wonder if the actual process of signals being bounced around to the flash controller causes a delay even though the flash is in manual mode. There's no pre flash to worry about, but does the communication between the camera and the hotshoe cause a delay. If only one camera was being used we wouldn't notice the delay and assume everything was fine.
 
Changing the radio channel would sort that issue............if it is that
 
Sorry, I think I expressed that wrong. I think it is some issue inside the camera. I'm wondering if the time taken for the electronics that control the shutter to talk to the flash control on the hotshoe and analyse the info is long enough to put the two shutters out of sync?
 
I doubt that
 
You could test the shutter sync by setting up a digital stopwatch in front of the cameras. Take a shot and see if they both capture the same time
 
I've done a test with two cameras set up to fire using Youngnuo 602 triggers. Each camera has a receiver fired by one transmitter. On the hotshoe of one camera I have a ST-E3 RT triggering two Canon 600EX flash units. Images are the stopwatch on an Iphone and you can see the time that the flash fires on the camera with the ST E3 and also the time that the other camera triggers (no flash so ambient only).

I think the difference in timing will be down to the mechanical working inside the camera rather than the electronics.


The difference in time per images are;

1) 77/100 to 81/100 = 4/100

2) 67/100 to 71/100 = 4/100

3) 93/100 to 96/100 = 3/100


I did 10 tests and the difference ranged from 3/100 to 7/100


It’s looking like this set up cannot be achieved successfully.

1uPe1kx.jpg
 
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Not sure if I've got this right, but you have two cameras, 5D2 and 5D3, and one flash gun? You want to fire both cameras together and the flash to appear in both images?

If so, the problem is sync timing and the different shutter lag of the two cameras - 5D2 is much slower off the mark than the 5D3. So, attach a 603 receiver to each camera and a 622 receiver to the flash on the slower 5D2. Use a longer shutter speed to ensure both shutters are open when the flash fires - not sure what might be needed but try maybe 1/10sec to be safe, and then work up to faster speeds to see where the limit lies.

Fire the 603 transmitter and both cameras will begin the exposure cycle together. The 5D3's shutter will open first, and stay open long enough for when the 5D2's shutter opens and triggers the flash.
 
He has two cameras and two off camera flash units. The flash units are firing at the same time but there is a difference in the timing of the camera shutters
 
admirable said:
He has two cameras and two off camera flash units. The flash units are firing at the same time but there is a difference in the timing of the camera shutters
Click to expand...

Oh well :)
 
I imagine that the cameras are both focusing and then taking the picture when you press the trigger. The result is as others have said the camera shutters going off at the wrong time.

Taking the easy option. Just use the 5d3 record raw to BOTH memory cards one of you gets the cfflash, the pother gets the sdcard. You both have the raws. Job done.
 
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