Ultra Soft - D90 with 18-200mm

braddersmd

braddersmd

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Name
Mark
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Just back from a few days in Northumberland, and have been looking at some of the shots I took using the D90 and 18-200mm that I bought recently from the classifieds on here.

Would you expect the images to be so soft? Shot hand held, 1/160th, f11, 82mm, ISO200. Auto Focus, small single point, focused just above the central window from memory.

All help and comments welcome.

Full image, no PP, only resized for Gallery upload...
Slaley.jpg


100% Crop showing detail...
Slaley_100_1.jpg
 
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How about this one... focus single point, on the face, and then re-framed. Just a thought, but when uploading to the gallery, does it sharpen at all?

This one is 1/1000th, f4.2, 32mm, ISO200

Full...
Eleanor.jpg


100% Crop...
Eleanor_100_1.jpg
 
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scottthehat said:
first i guess you are shooting jpeg, 2nd what do you have shapening set to in camera.
Click to expand...

Nope, shooting RAW. Taken the images into PS without any adjustment in Camera Raw (simply open the image), and then resized for the full shots, and clipped 100% crops for, well, the crops.
 
Yup. Those do look awful and I can't imagine that it's down to lack of in camera sharpening as it looks too bad for that.

Is there any chance of trying another lens? If you don't have another maybe you could pop into town and either pretend to be interested in buying one or just be honest with the sales staff so you can run off a few shots?
 
first one seems okay, as for the second try a smaller aperture as f4.2 I don't think it's the sharpest for this lens try f5.6 or smaller , you'll be able to get away with it as shutter speed at f4.2 is 1000. I did own this lens for a week and sold it due to this softness issue. bought the 16-85mm as a replacement and found this way sharper all round
 
I had my D90 for several months and then went on a trip to Chicago, once back I went through the pics and noticed most of them were soft, ran some focus tests and somehow the AF had shifted, it was OK in Live view but not through the Viewfinder.

Sent it to Nikon and they adjusted the AF and had the cam back as new within a week.

If it's in warranty I would just send it to Nikon after phoning them and say you want an AF check.

Edit: Of course it could be other things that was just my experience and problem with my D90 ;)
 
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The snow behind the girl looks sharp. it looks like you have simply missfocused

Toonie
 
seems to be the typical gloomy softness that those hyperzooms give.
I'm having so many problems with the sigma 28-300mm. the seller refuses to take it back and ebay ruled in his favour.

AVOID these type of lenses ! although - nikon 18-200mm should be the best of the bunch.
 
Sounds like bad luck. I had a Sigma 28-300mm and regretted selling it, I got plenty of sharp shots. This one was hand held.

BM1.jpg


Some of these superzooms get good reviews and should be easily capable of good results.

With these superzooms I think it's important to select a suitable aperture and watch your shutter speed as many of them don't have IS. That doesn't seem to be the OP's problem though, but I am convinced that a working superzoom should do quite well, certainly better than the OP's examples. I hope that the problems can soon be sorted.
 
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Have looked back closely at all the shots I took, and also done a few test shots today. The lens does appear to be much softer when wide open and below f5.6 - thanks for the tipoff mjjiva.

Bought the lens from the classifieds on here, so not sure of the protocol in this situation. I, unfortunately, did not ask for test shots, so I guess I will be on a hiding to nothing. Will send a message to the seller to see how they feel.

Thanks for all the input.

Cheers, Mark
 
Can you try the lens on another camera? They do seem soft to me, my 18-200 was really sharp at most apertures up to about 180mm, then started getting a little softer. I would expect all the shots you took to be much sharper than that.
Di you have VR on or off? I found with VR on you need to get a real good hold of the camera or it tends to jump a bit. Try the same shot with VR off then on again and a few tripod shots with VR off and compare the results.
Allan
 
I have this lens with the D300, it is soft, but nothing like your images are showing. If you have got all your settings correct inc focus point something is wrong. It is not the normal results from this lens.
 
Regarding sharpening, I do understand that the RAW files will need to be sharpened - but they are so soft, that it is not possible to sharpen them and get a decent image.

The seller is giving the issue consideration, which I view as positive.
 
To be brutally honest, I'd be looking at user error before blaming the kit. Firstly you are shooting in RAW with no PP at all so you shouldn't be surprised if the image is soft and also there is a LOT of noise there which is de-rigueur for the D90 (even at base ISO) so some noise reduction needs to be added.

Secondly, although difficult to tell with the small pics, in the second shots it looks as though other parts of the image are sharper so you have possibly missed the focus.
 
Nawty said:
To be brutally honest, I'd be looking at user error before blaming the kit. Firstly you are shooting in RAW with no PP at all so you shouldn't be surprised if the image is soft and also there is a LOT of noise there which is de-rigueur for the D90 (even at base ISO) so some noise reduction needs to be added.

Secondly, although difficult to tell with the small pics, in the second shots it looks as though other parts of the image are sharper so you have possibly missed the focus.
Click to expand...

Nawty, which bits do you think are more in focus? I can assure that i used center focus on the face, and re-framed before fully pushing the shutter.

I can have a go at pulling a different crop from the image - where do you think is better in focus?

Also, I seem to recall a program that shows the focus point on an image - Is there such? I will run the image through it to see what's going on.

Understand the comment about blame technique before kit, but I've had a D700 for over a year, and never once experienced anything like this on that with any lens I've used.
 
Well, initially I thought her gloves were in focus, but then also some of the snow track behind her, difficult to tell though as it's nearly all white :LOL:

A though that springs to mind is that the Nikon 18-200 (in fact any mega-zoom) suffers zoom compression, I wonder if this effect focus when recomposing?
 
scottthehat said:
any chance you can put the raws up for us to have a look at.
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Will be able to host the RAWs on the server at work on Monday. PC is currently having issues - I may be able to email some for others to host before, if anyone fancies having a go?
 
Nawty said:
Well, initially I thought her gloves were in focus, but then also some of the snow track behind her, difficult to tell though as it's nearly all white :LOL:

A though that springs to mind is that the Nikon 18-200 (in fact any mega-zoom) suffers zoom compression, I wonder if this effect focus when recomposing?
Click to expand...

This is my first play with a mega-zoom lens - not heard of this before, but if true, maybe? Have always used centre focus and re-compose before, so this is a new one on me.

Don't misunderstand me, if it is something I am doing, it would be good to learn where I've gone wrong, but it beats me at present!!
 
I don't mean to slight your abilities at all - the second shot does look soft but the first is pretty much what I'd expect form a superzoom (it's at f/11 too) so from that I'd surmise that the lens is "within spec" and is a "good" copy (I don't really like that term but there you go...) so something must have gone wrong with the 2nd shot.


Also, you're used to a D700 so maybe a RAW shot comes out nicer than a D90 (less noise etc)?
 
Thanks Nawty, understand the sentiment, but there are several shots like the 2nd one. No worry about slighting my abilities - can take that and will hold me hand up if proven so - the best way to learn. That there are several like this, taken at different times during the day is very much puzzling me indeed.

Also didn't manage to get anything like the other examples posted, showing really sharp images - something appears to be amiss to me. Would be very happy for someone in the W.Yorks area to have a look and see what they think also.

Would a program showing the focal point be able to cope with focus and re-frame?
(Edit - Just tried Nikon ViewNX - but this just shows the selected focus method, and doesn't adjust for a re-composed shot).
 
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Example 2 from same day...
Focus selected - face - 52mm, 1/100th, f4.8, 200ISO...

Full Shot...
Test_2_Full.jpg


100% Crop...
Test_2_100_Crop.jpg
 
Example 3 same day.
Focus selected, eye - 170mm, 1/200th, f5.6 640ISO

Full shot...
Test_3_Full.jpg


100% Crop...
Test_3_100_Crop.jpg
 
Finally, now found one from the same set where I did not re-compose the shot. Have viewed the RAW in ViewNX, and attached the focus point image to show where focus should be...

Shot, focus on eye, 170mm, 1/200th, f5.6, 640ISO

Full shot...
Test_4_Full.jpg


100% Crop...
Test_4_100_Crop.jpg


Focus point, as per ViewNX...
Test_4_Focus.jpg
 
They do appear very soft, and having just tried with the 100% crop, any amount of sharpening only makes them look worse, not better...
 
Scott, interesting results. Intrigued as to how minimal, and what method.

Would you be able to have a go at one of the RAW files, and then post a 100% crop on the results to show a similar area as my crops - am I correct in thinking that the 100% crop, showing the area of focus should be as sharp as..?

EDIT : Have done as above on the RAW, and been able to sharpen so that the full image looks better (using the unsharp mask in PS - probably a little OTT on reflection!) . However, when you look at the same 100% crop area, the crop looks particularly bad. Can anyone confirm that I should be able to achieve a good quality 100% crop from area in and around the point of focus?

Full, with sharpening using PS unsharp mask...
Test_5_Full.jpg


100% crop of sharpened image...
Test_5_100_Crop.jpg
 
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braddersmd said:
Have looked back closely at all the shots I took, and also done a few test shots today. The lens does appear to be much softer when wide open and below f5.6 - thanks for the tipoff mjjiva.

Bought the lens from the classifieds on here, so not sure of the protocol in this situation. I, unfortunately, did not ask for test shots, so I guess I will be on a hiding to nothing. Will send a message to the seller to see how they feel.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how much, if any, comeback you have seeing as you left +ive feedback on the 3rd so it has taken over a week for you to have an issue. :shrug:
 
dentedshed said:
I'm not sure how much, if any, comeback you have seeing as you left +ive feedback on the 3rd so it has taken over a week for you to have an issue. :shrug:
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Unless you have absolutely nothing else to do with you life, a week isn't an excessive length of time to test a lens properly.... I also think most people leave feedback initially on delivery and physical condition of goods bought... although they shouldn't....
 
dentedshed said:
I'm not sure how much, if any, comeback you have seeing as you left +ive feedback on the 3rd so it has taken over a week for you to have an issue. :shrug:
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Yup. A mistake on my part - giving +ve feedback as soon as I received the lens and before I had chance to test it fully.

Was due to fly to Cape Verde on the morning of the 3rd. Flight postponed, allowing me to collect the lens that day from work (it was due to arrive on 2nd, but snow delays meant it was not delivered). Flight re-arranged and then cancelled on 4th, so that wiped that day out for testing. Spent the 5th and 6th chasing around for alternative holidays, and settled on a few days in Northumberland - took the camera with me, and hence the shots. Had I actually managed to get to Cape Verde on 4th, I would not have been back in the UK or able to do anything about it any sooner.

Don't get me wrong, this is not a bleeding heart thread - I just hope the seller will be sympathetic, if it does prove to be the lens - I have sent the seller some RAW files as examples. Not so sure what you mean by comeback though - if the seller is not sympathetic (I am still hopeful), there would be little I could do anyway, I would assume?

Looking at some other posters examples using the lens, it does look very soft. I guess I am simply looking for thoughts and opinions - if the concensus is that it appears soft, and the seller is not sympathetic, then I will need to look at sending it off for checking, I guess, so any and all suggestions in that direction would be welcome.
 
As previously suggested the lens needs to be tested on another camera and maybe by someone else to see if it produces the same results
 
DekHog said:
Unless you have absolutely nothing else to do with you life, a week isn't an excessive length of time to test a lens properly.... .
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Oh I agree. When buying a new or 2nd hand lens I generally fire off 200-300 shots to double check everything. When buying new you have the option to return to the store but buying 2nd hand means caveat emptor, to me at least.

DekHog said:
I also think most people leave feedback initially on delivery and physical condition of goods bought... although they shouldn't....
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No disagreement here.

To the OP, I wasn't having a go at you directly (although it could be read like that) but buying 2nd hand can always throw up challenges.
 
No worries Michael, the shots were taken as soon as I really had chance, and I did indeed post +ve feedback before testing.

Caveat emptor indeed.

So, does anyone in the W.Yorks area fancy helping and having a go with the lens and/or the D90 to see where the fault lies (me, lens or camera, all possibles!). At least 2 of the 3 should be able to be sorted in expert hands!! I've only got the D700 as an alternative, which will not be much use for testing the lens properly, as I believe it will automatically shutter itself down.

Failing that, I will see if Stephen at Dale in Leeds will take a look at them for me on Tuesday.
 
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