Unbiased 6D/7D opinion?

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shufflemoomin

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I shoot concerts almost exclusively. I've been using a 7D with the Canon EF-S 17-55 2.8 with an original 5D as a backup with varying lenses. I've been thinking about replacing the 7D for a while because I'm just not happy with its low light capabilities both in terms of AF and noise. I had considered replacing the original 5D with a mkii and keeping the 7D as a backup but I've started to become attracted to the 6D, mostly because of what I read about it's centre point low light AF and incredibly low noise high ISO shots and switching out the 7D for this and upgrading the 5D to mkii as a backup.

Does anyone have an opinion if I'd regret dumping a 7D for a 6D for this usage? I know people say the 7D has a great AF system, and that may be true, but under low light, I don't feel that it does. I'm missing too many shots because the 7D just won't lock on, regardless of lens, even when I give it something of contrast that shouldn't be a problem for it. I know I would also be giving up the 8fps shooting, but I simply don't use it enough to justify it. I have it in the mid-speed continues which I think is only about 4 or 5 fps anyway.

So, any thoughts? Does anyone have low light experience of both bodies who can weigh in on this? It's a major decision for me and I'd like to avoid making a mistake.
 
The 6d is about a stop and a half better noise wise according to dxomark. As for low light focusing i have not idea.
 
If you've done your research you'll know which camera is far better in low light conditions. Both in focusing and noise performance.
 
I think you'll be very pleased with the 6D's high ISO performance, and I've not had an issue with centre point AF in low light with my Tamron 28-75/2.8 (although most of my shots have been with manual focus lenses up until now).

High ISO is significantly better than that of my 60D (same sensor as the 7D). I am comfortable using it up to ISO 12800, and I shoot RAW with no noise reduction.

Some examples here:

ISO 6400


Natives 2 by <<BackToTheFuture>>, on Flickr

ISO 5000


Natives 7 by <<BackToTheFuture>>, on Flickr

ISO 2500


Natives 9 by <<BackToTheFuture>>, on Flickr
 
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In fact, looking at your shots 'manualfocus-g' (give your real name for goodness sake! :p) they are some what noisier than I would expect from a FF sensor! But that's just picking at straws. I for one don't care about noise. If it ever becomes an issue it is easily removable in post processing :)
 
I sort of half considered the 6D as a replacement for my 5D but one killer for me would be being limited to a max of 1/4000 sec shutter speed. That's not a problem for low light shooters but lovers of shallow DoF in good light have to reach for the ND's. This is a pet hate of mine with MFT and having the same issue with a FF DSLR would have me drop kicking it over a hedge.
 
6D is full frame.
7D is not.

with better low light AF and 1.5 stop better low light performance (according to Dxomark) I don't see any reason to keep the 7D at all.

If I'm buying now, 6D will certainly be my choice. Never considered 7D, with its 550D sensor. But then, I'm a landscape shooter, full frame and GPS are the main selling point for me.
 
Not to answer the OP but I have shot quite a few gigs with 60D/7D/1Ds2&3/5D2 cameras but NOT the 6D. Personally, I really do not like the 7D for this job AT ALL and would chose any of the others above in preference.

I have had two 7Ds and although a fantastic camera with lots of virtues it really is not a low light shooting machine, IMHO. I just see too many artifacts in the shadowy/dark areas of the image of which there tend to be many in my gig photos.

I now have a 5D3 and although I have not had chance to use it at a gig yet I would highly recommend this body to the OP. The AF is as good or better than the 7D (being subjective) and the high iso performance is at least two stops better.

I know nothing about the 6D but think the OP should seriously look at a 5D3.

Just my GBP0.02 worth.
 
gary43 said:
I have had two 7Ds and although a fantastic camera with lots of virtues it really is not a low light shooting machine, IMHO. I just see too many artifacts in the shadowy/dark areas of the image of which there tend to be many in my gig photos.

The AF is as good or better than the 7D (being subjective) and the high iso performance is at least two stops better.

Just my GBP0.02 worth.
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Afraid I'll have to disagree with you on a few points there! The 7D performs just fine in low light. As I've said, it comes down to the lenses. For gigs, I'd never go beyond any lower that f/2.8 (I stick between there and f/1.4 for all my shots!). As you can see from my images above, the noise is minimal. Those were shot in a dimly lit environment with zero back lighting. I challenge you to pick out the artifacts and the dark areas of those photos. I sound like I'm tooting my own horn a bit, but the 7D really can be a great camera for this kind of photography.

As for the AF system, it's easily on par with the 5D Mk IIIs in terms of responsiveness and accuracy. It doens't have quite as many cross-type focus points, but it still does the job better than the majority of it's counterpart cameras. It easily beats the 6Ds AF system it terms of speed and that comes down to the focus points, of which the 7D is vastly superior! :geek:
 
Hi Eddzz

Fair cop, if the gig photos posted have had no NR applied then I think they are pretty noise-free. If not, it may be down to your software/PPing skills ?

On the other point, the time I saw improved AF performance of the 5D3 v my 7D was at the weekend shooting with a 500f4ISL with a x1.4 TC attached; same ISO same shutterspeed etc.. Reviewing the images the 5D3 ones were sharper in more instances and the acquisition speed also seemed faster. I would not argue the toss that 5D3 AFed better than 7D on this basis but would claim it is as good (or better).

Like your gig photos BTW.
 
I have a 7D and my primary use is concert photography.

It does OK in that area. Not great but OK. The autofocus is good in certain situations although the outer points are next to useless in all but the best light. And when shooting at ISO6400 and still getting no better than 1/60 the light is clearly not the best...

I spent a long time weighing up the option of a 6D. Improved image quality is a bonus, and from what I see at 6400 the 6d is much better than the 7D, but I just couldn't deal with that tiny cluster of focus points in the middle. For me, that is the letdown of the 6D because you may as well just shoot centre point only.

This is why I saved longer and ordered a 5D3
 
gary43 said:
Hi Eddzz

Fair cop, if the gig photos posted have had no NR applied then I think they are pretty noise-free. If not, it may be down to your software/PPing skills ?

On the other point, the time I saw improved AF performance of the 5D3 v my 7D was at the weekend shooting with a 500f4ISL with a x1.4 TC attached; same ISO same shutterspeed etc.. Reviewing the images the 5D3 ones were sharper in more instances and the acquisition speed also seemed faster. I would not argue the toss that 5D3 AFed better than 7D on this basis but would claim it is as good (or better).

Like your gig photos BTW.
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Yeah, I wouldn't debate that the 7Ds AF system was in anyway better than the 5D Mk IIIs, but, what I would say is that the 7D has stood the test of time in that regard. It still stands up well to cameras like the 5D MK III and D800 which is commendable considering it's age. I think Canon really put their all into the 7D and makes me wonder how much more they could have given the 5D MK III considering it's release time (with regard to how far the tech has come) and price-tag.

RichardtheSane said:
I have a 7D and my primary use is concert photography.

It does OK in that area. Not great but OK. The autofocus is good in certain situations although the outer points are next to useless in all but the best light. And when shooting at ISO6400 and still getting no better than 1/60 the light is clearly not the best...

I spent a long time weighing up the option of a 6D. Improved image quality is a bonus, and from what I see at 6400 the 6d is much better than the 7D, but I just couldn't deal with that tiny cluster of focus points in the middle. For me, that is the letdown of the 6D because you may as well just shoot centre point only.

This is why I saved longer and ordered a 5D3
Click to expand...

If it came down to it and if money wasn't a factor (which of course it is) the 5D MK III would be the first choice in any instance. Either that or the 1DX *keeps dreaming* :bonk:
 
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Got to say though that looking at the 7D gig photos v 6D photos at 100% in zoombrowser that there are definitely white flecks in darker areas if you look for them.

Maybe rock/pop guys have dandruff issues ?

I'm strugging to work out how high you have pushed the iso ion the 7D images as well ?

Either way, I've got to stop looking at 100% crops and appreciate the big picture. As mentioned, these are really nice photos.

Given these two sets though I would definitely take 6D over 7D and from the spec sheet alone (sorry, I don't have one) would take 5D3 over 6D.

I refer back to my original point that the OP should consider 5D3.
 
gary43 said:
Got to say though that looking at the 7D gig photos v 6D photos at 100% in zoombrowser that there are definitely white flecks in darker areas if you look for them.
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Agree, deffo there. You can remove them but at a cost in some cases.
 
Phil Young said:
I'm sure the 6D's AF system is good enough? I would have though it's 1&1/2 stop noise handling would easily win over the 7D's more focus points???
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ISO handling is useless if the shot is not in focus, or much harder to get in focus. For music photography, having use of other focus points is pretty important in my experience - focus/recompose is no use for fast paced live shows.
 
Yea, the D90 - and the 7D - have autofocus points that cover more area in the frame.

The 6D doesn't...
 
Yeah, as others have said: I think the real question here is "7D or 5D MK III" because even though 6D stands on its own, it compromises on too much.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Yea, the D90 - and the 7D - have autofocus points that cover more area in the frame.

The 6D doesn't...
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In the best case 6D has 1 really good point with 8 assist points... You can live with that in some situations, but I wouldn't go back to it. Being able to pick points anywhere on the frame is very nice, and drives the keeper rate up.
 
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