Unpaid work schemes..

faddius

faddius

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I happened across this article from the Guardian, it got me thinking about these schemes and what their effects will be in the long term, both for the job market as a whole and individuals.

Clicky

It may well be treading on the toes of a political subject, in which case, by all means, I am happy for the mods to remove and burn this thread.

But Im more interested in peoples opinions on the actual subject as opposed to any politics behind the subject. How they view it, whether they would happily work on such a scheme themselves if their circumstances demaded it. Or whether they have actually worked on such a scheme and what, if anything, they have taken away from the scheme.

So, please do share (y)

P.S. Please read the whole article! Theres alot in there that may otherwise be missed if quickly skimmed!


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In a nutshell, I disagree with these schemes and believe if people are going to be made to work full time hours to the same competence as other staff then they should be at the very least be paid minimum wage for their efforts. In the long term, if these sorts of schemes catch on, I can see the job market getting worse as companies lay off more staff due to "financial cutbacks" and take on more of these, essentially, free workers. Then constantly cycling through them as more and more people are laid off and end up in the chain of unemployed workers. Anything to increase their profits for the big boys at the top. Worrying prospect :shake:
 
I did something similar back in 1995 on a training scheme for a year when I was 17/18 as I am sure a lot of people did.

Was a long year but was employed by the company at the end of the time. I am still in the same area of work now
 
Maybe getting a little close to politics, but I'll let it run for now. Can we please try to keep it polite and constructive though ? I may be asking in vain, but it's the weekend, the sun's out and I'm feeling optimistic :)

And my 2p worth on the topic - Principle is right and fair, but implementation has been shoddy.

First off, from the perspective of the person working it's not really unpaid work is it? They work, they get paid their benefits and gain some work experience at the same time.
However, there are a few downfalls that need to be addressed for it to work. The hours being worked don't even equate to them receiving minimum wage for what they're doing and limit the time available to continue searching for a job of their choice. It also seems to be lacking any governance to ensure that the schemes are actually placing people in positions where they will gain some sort of useful experience.

The second big mistake is that these schemes have been opened up to large private companies, who are effectively getting free labour. That's bound to depress the job market and reduce the number of paid roles. There's already a huge sector of the market out there for voluntary work, doing all sorts of things and giving something back to the community. Seems like a gap that could be exploited by these sort of schemes for a win-win situation :shrug:
 
faddius said:
In a nutshell, I disagree with these schemes and believe if people are going to be made to work full time hours to the same competence as other staff then they should be at the very least be paid minimum wage for their efforts. In the long term, if these sorts of schemes catch on, I can see the job market getting worse as companies lay off more staff due to "financial cutbacks" and take on more of these, essentially, free workers. Then constantly cycling through them as more and more people are laid off and end up in the chain of unemployed workers. Anything to increase their profits for the big boys at the top. Worrying prospect :shake:
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I'd just finished reading the article as well. I have to agree with you. I don't see how the 6 month unpaid work scheme helps anyone except the company providing the placement. It doesn't help you get off benefit or pay income tax, but rather ensures you're stuck on them for a minimum 6 month period
 
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No one should work for free. Even graduate interns. Most of them do a decent job. If they don't, bin them and get another!

If you make people work for free you aren't going to get any loyalty from them whatsoever. Then employers wonder why employees do nothing when they pay either nothing or the very basic absolute legal minimum.

You don't need to employ anyone in a supermarket for free for any more than a week. It isn't that hard to stack a shelf or sweep a floor. They aren't offering them in depth, specialist positions that might actually take a few months to learn. Even the thickest of the thick can push a brush around.

There are graduate internships locally but they still pay £250 a week. If a run down and depressed area like Stoke can pay then I don't see why other areas can get away with not paying at least minimum wage.
 
Where i used to work we used to have people in who did more hours than i did. did exactly the same as i did and didn't get a penny, and there was no hope of them being taken on after.

I think this is wrong.
 
I agree that it would be much better to "employ" these people in a job that they could learn worthwhile skills. I served a 4 yr apprenticeship in toolmaking 30 years ago and back then apprenticeships were apprenticeships. Now you can serve an apprenticeship in Customer Services, that's just plain daft. A workmates 17yr old son has just started a Carpentry apprenticeship two weeks ago. It's what he has wanted to do since leaving school last July. Yet it is only for a year, he goes to college once a week (all theory) and at work all he has done so far is sanding down, day in day out, except for going out in a van a few times to help carry stuff. He's not allowed to use machinery as he's under 18 (H&S). There is another lad who has been there around 7 months and is still sanding down apart from the odd trip out in the van with one of the carpenters. The "sanding room" is even seperate to where the carpentry is actually going on so they can't even really observe and learn.
If these "work experience" placements were in worthwhile areas, my son would jump at the chance of one. He has spent 3 yrs at college studying motorsport engineering, he left last July and apart from unpaid partime work for a team, he has been unable to find permanent work. He hasn't even signed on yet and will be 21 in a few months. He's applying for jobs every week, had one interview (his mate from college got the job) and a couple of replies, but other than that nothing.
 
Some apprenticeships are better than others. Friend's lad has been at Bentley. That's a proper one. Think he has a real job with them now.
 
Well, I did quite an in depth response to the Guardian article this morning where I picked apart the numbers and how certain things were phrased.

I came out with an estimate that over the last year Tesco alone has gained somewhere in the region of £2,330,640 worth of free labour yet have only given out 300 jobs. I only included the people who didnt gain employment at the end of the scheme whilst playing with numbers, used minimum wage for 18-20 year olds and that each one had done 30 hours a week for 4 weeks to make up the month as stated in the article.

Even if you take into account that they would be receiving benefits whilst working, that only comes to £833,820. Leaving a defecit of £1,496,820 or £383.30 per person that they would have otherwise gained if they had worked at minimum wage.

Obviously, this is a huge amount of money in tax that has been lost and Tesco doesnt pay for the benefits directly. I suppose Tesco could view it as a gigantic tax rebate in the form of free workers?

With such huge savings to be made, no wonder most of the major retailers have jumped on the scheme to give their annual profits quite a nice boost.

I've not been made to go on any of these sorts of schemes, but a house mate of mine did last year. He worked for 2 months unpaid and was promised (by an area manager) a job at the end of it for a new store that was opening yet the job never came into fruition. I can only help but think that he was told this in order to keep him working hard and maintaining a positive attitude for the duration of his unpaid work?

As it has been mentioned, yes I think the schemes can offer something but has been poorly implemented in a way that in reality it only benefits private companies.
 
srichards said:
Some apprenticeships are better than others. Friend's lad has been at Bentley. That's a proper one. Think he has a real job with them now.
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Yes! I have had friends who have been taken on as apprentices at both Bentley and Aston Martin, paid a fair wage during their training and most have received jobs at the end of it.

Its just a shame that such apprenticeships are few and far between.

You couldn't really call working at Tesco as an apprenticeship, unless perhaps you were working directly with someone like the manager or in the accounts department learning how to manage people / money.

I should also point out that a few years ago I only just missed out on a great apprenticeship for Yamaha UK (It came down to me and 1 other person), that would have put me in a good position for career development. Its part of the reason why I dislike watching the motogp now, I could of been there in the pits as part of the apprenticeship! :bang:
 
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It's one thing doing voluntary work for genuine charities, I applaud this and have nothing but respect for the people involved. It's an entirely different matter when someone is either pressured or otherwise cajoled into doing unpaid work merely to keep on receiving benefits to which they are entitled. That's entirely wrong.


The spurious arguments about on the job training that is beneficial in the future, often don't stand up to reasoned argument, they're hardly looking for work at the same time. It's more about cheap labour than anything else, at the very least they should receive minimum wage in place of the benefit.
 
My working hours have been cut from 4 days a week to 1 because of this. The charity that I work for have replaced us all with people from this scheme. Once their 6 months is up, they just get new ones. I hate it.
 
hellogoodbye said:
My working hours have been cut from 4 days a week to 1 because of this. The charity that I work for have replaced us all with people from this scheme. Once their 6 months is up, they just get new ones. I hate it.
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Thats exactly what I feared would start to happen to people not on the scheme :shake:

I wonder if anyone has lost their jobs because of it yet.
 
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