Upgrade body? Upgrade lens? Upgrade skills?

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samuel235

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Samuel
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Hi guys, i've been reading through TP.co.uk for a while now, never gotten involved though. My current kit is a Canon 1000d with the kit Lens (18-55mm), a little nifty fifty (fixed 50mm) and a Canon 75-300mm IS USM. I've been shooting a bit of everything when i first got it, i took a break to concentrate more on work for 6 months, picked it up last week and went to the MotoGP yesterday.

Here are some shots i got with my kit yesterday (all with the 75-300mm)
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I was panning with AI Servo selected at around 280-290mm. I'm thinking of spending a little money on my kit, i'm going to snowdonia for a day or two at some point this year before santa visits. Sports are what i prefer shooting though, particularly motorsports.

So would you say i need to upgrade my lens to maybe a L series 400mm? Or maybe you think i could do with upgrading my body from the entry level 1000d? Or is it just my skills that need brushing up on? I'm open to every bit of advice you can give me, thank you!
 
I personally would opt for a 70-200 is 2.8 with a 2x Tc, then you've best of both worlds, when you're near track side oulton park, cadwell use the 70-200, when you need a bit of reach put the TC on to give you near enough 650mm
 
So you wouldn't buy a new body anytime soon? Just purchase an 2x extender plus a new 70-200 Lens? How much more overall quality and focus quality can i expect to get out of my current entry level body?

Also, when i do choose to upgrade, what model do you think i should be considering, my budget would be anything under around £800 i think :)
 
As far as your skills go, those are pretty good for a 70-300 is. It's a lens that I found need very careful handling to get anything good out of over 200mm.

If you look over at the Motosport section you'll see some wonderful shots taken with gear that's "no good for sport or wildlife" so imho good technique can overcome limited equipment. Having said that, the best place to start is to ask "what is my current gear lacking?"

1. is the 70-300 mm too short? Yes? you need a longer lens (or TC, but not for that 70-300)
2. Are you using the 70-300 at 300 all the time? Yes? maybe a long prime would be worth considering, otherwise stick with a zoom.
3. is the 1000D/70-300 finding it difficult to focus? Yes? a lens upgrade could help with focus issues as can good technique but so would a 7D!

The answers to these questions will go some way to providing an answer. Sorry I can't be more specific but I don't shoot sports (motor or otherwise).

Darren
 
Thank you for your feedback Darren! First of all, i do use that lens for various other bits of work, and could do with something with a tad more zoom on (maybe 400) so i don't think a prime is the way too go really. So i think if i was to upgrade on the lens side it would be to something like a Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0 L USM Lens with a TCx2.

I don't have the money available to get a 7d with a new lens and TC, so as per usual, i think the new lens is in order BEFORE a new body.
 
before you go down the TC route remember that with TC you lose a stop as well, 1 stop for a 1.4 and two stops for a x2.

This would make your f/4 an f/8 with a TCx2 and only the high end bodies AF at f/8.

Have you considered any of the sigma zooms? The 120-400 f/4.5-5.6 DG OS and 150-500 f/5-6.3 DG OS are highly regarded by many here.
 
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Hi & welcome to the forum,for the kit you have the results are pretty good & it looks like you have a level of basic photography to be able to move on.If you intend to photograph mainly motorsport then I would recommend a body upgrade to a 7d, its what I use as a spare body but I end up using it more than my 1d:LOL::LOL::LOL:.As for a good lens choice I've been very lucky to have try a large range.Two I would recommend looking at are the Canon 100-400 a bit heavy & sometimes slow to auto focus but it does have a good zoom range.I used one for about 3 years and found it to be very good.I ditched in favour of a 70-200 f2.8 non is & 2x converter & hand on heart found the 70-200 on its own to have been the sharpest lens I ever owned, not even my mkii is version is as good & I regret selling it.So this is the lens combination I would recommend.7d bodies come up second hand for £550-600 & a non is 70-200 for about £500they aint cheep but once you get bitten it can get a whole load more expensive.
 
Hi Samuel, I see that u have very nice shots and do not doubt your skills.
I started my first DSLR with 1000D and had rented the 70-200mm F2.8 IS for my first ever F1 shot and had gotten pretty decent result.
1000D is a basic entry level camera and if u can master it well especially sports with panning shots, I believe your skill is there. Ofcourse a better camera would help for more keeper with a better camera with higher FPS and faster focus lock on.
But then with a capable camera, a need for a better glasses will soon be in the list to maximize the full potential of what a camera is capable of.
A camera and a lens serve different purpose.
Personally my next camera after the 1000D was the 7D and soon enough, I got the 24-70mm F2.8 as I was shooting casually more often then.
When the next season of F1 is coming, I specially bought the 70-200mm II for it and other sports events.
 
As per Eric above, I went from 1000D to 7D - not as big a step in terms of what to learn as I'd anticpated. Your shots (and skills) look great, really like your above shots.

I'm going to buck the trend and say body upgrade first, then lens later.

The 7D is plummeting in price, second hand for £450-600 depending on nick, brand new grey for not much more. Your current lens is good enough for what you do, and IMHO I think the 7D would give you more keepers, more pixels to play with and be solid enough to keep for several years.

For lenses - you can always rent for any major races/events you want to shoot, then you'll also get a good idea of what you could buy when funds allow.
 
Daren -
before you go down the TC route remember that with TC you lose a stop as well, 1 stop for a 1.4 and two stops for a x2.

This would make your f/4 an f/8 with a TCx2 and only the high end bodies AF at f/8.

Have you considered any of the sigma zooms? The 120-400 f/4.5-5.6 DG OS and 150-500 f/5-6.3 DG OS are highly regarded by many here.
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I must not forget that, thank you!

Gary -
Hi & welcome to the forum,for the kit you have the results are pretty good & it looks like you have a level of basic photography to be able to move on.If you intend to photograph mainly motorsport then I would recommend a body upgrade to a 7d, its what I use as a spare body but I end up using it more than my 1d.As for a good lens choice I've been very lucky to have try a large range.Two I would recommend looking at are the Canon 100-400 a bit heavy & sometimes slow to auto focus but it does have a good zoom range.I used one for about 3 years and found it to be very good.I ditched in favour of a 70-200 f2.8 non is & 2x converter & hand on heart found the 70-200 on its own to have been the sharpest lens I ever owned, not even my mkii is version is as good & I regret selling it.So this is the lens combination I would recommend.7d bodies come up second hand for £550-600 & a non is 70-200 for about £500they aint cheep but once you get bitten it can get a whole load more expensive.
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Thank you for your advice on which lens to go for, great to be speaking to someone that was at the GP too :D

Eric -
Hi Samuel, I see that u have very nice shots and do not doubt your skills.
I started my first DSLR with 1000D and had rented the 70-200mm F2.8 IS for my first ever F1 shot and had gotten pretty decent result.
1000D is a basic entry level camera and if u can master it well especially sports with panning shots, I believe your skill is there. Ofcourse a better camera would help for more keeper with a better camera with higher FPS and faster focus lock on.
But then with a capable camera, a need for a better glasses will soon be in the list to maximize the full potential of what a camera is capable of.
A camera and a lens serve different purpose.
Personally my next camera after the 1000D was the 7D and soon enough, I got the 24-70mm F2.8 as I was shooting casually more often then.
When the next season of F1 is coming, I specially bought the 70-200mm II for it and other sports events.
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Thank you for the kind words on my photos, i would love to get either a new body or Lens (Or lens and TC) and i would normally go for the whole 'lens over body' rule every time, except i realise there is only so far that a body can go and sometimes you need to have a better base for a decent lens to sit on.

Paul -
As per Eric above, I went from 1000D to 7D - not as big a step in terms of what to learn as I'd anticpated. Your shots (and skills) look great, really like your above shots.

I'm going to buck the trend and say body upgrade first, then lens later.

The 7D is plummeting in price, second hand for £450-600 depending on nick, brand new grey for not much more. Your current lens is good enough for what you do, and IMHO I think the 7D would give you more keepers, more pixels to play with and be solid enough to keep for several years.

For lenses - you can always rent for any major races/events you want to shoot, then you'll also get a good idea of what you could buy when funds allow.
Click to expand...

I have been looking at lens rental for a bit, just to test before i buy. I think i defiantly will be doing so on a new lens for my 7D when i get it. Thank you for the kind words :) I think i would rather go for a brand new 7D rather than a Second hand one though, that little extra seems well worth it for the warranty.

Andrew -
Upgrade camera - will show up the flaws of the 75-300 even more.

Upgrade lens - will make you wish for the features of a higher spec camera!

Chicken & Egg situation.
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Those damn chicken and egg situations suck!


All in all i think I'll be looking into getting a new 7D, and then maybe sell my Tamron 70-300mm and my 1000d, put that towards a possible new lens. Once again, thank you all for your kind words.
 
To be honest with the 75-300 being one of the worst lenses I've used you have done a really good job.
I was previously using a 20d and a 55-250 and I then upgraded to a 70-200 f4, the lens made a huge difference with it being so sharp, fast and better colours.
It all depends on where you shoot but at my local track 70-200 is enough and my 100-400 is to much zoom. In contrast though I went to oulton park for bsb and just left my 100-400 on to give me enough reach to get the bikes full in the frame.

I've upgrade to a 7d myself and I haven't been wowed by it but it does the job and it has increased my keepers not that my keeper rate with the 20d was bad.

Personally I would upgrade the lens first. You will notice a big difference straight away whereas if you upgrade the body to a 7d but keep with your 75-300 you may become disheartened as I doubt you would notice that big a difference in your pictures.
 
Thank you for throwing the spanner in the works Dex! :p

On a serious note though, i was wondering this my self while i was just walking the streets down Torquay (Away for work). Will be interesting to see what others think, just got to let people spot the thread and reply with their opinions :)
 
Hi Samuel, lens over body would be my personal choice if I had to choose one of them.
Lens- if u think u are not satisfied with current lens sharpness, contrast and reach. I would recommend u to get 100-400mm instead of 70-200mm + TC. 1000D focus wasn't fast, I can't imagine with added TC on it.
Body- if u wish to have more precise and faster AF and more keeper. Probably better ISO performance too. 7D is a good option to consider.
Get both if u wish for an all rounder.
It boils down to your personal priority.
Even if u don't change anything, your photos are already good looking.
 
I think there are two key things to consider here and both have been covered.

Body. You will need a much faster body and the obvious choice is a 7D. Yes, you can get a used one but it may well have been 'well used' if you know what I mean? I'd start off with a new one if your budget allows.

Now for the tricky bit... Personally, I shoot Motorsport for the press so shoot trackside and I use a 300mm f2.8 + a 1.4x or 2x on a full frame bodies then I will crop on my computer after. With 18mp the 7D allows for huge crops!!!! Plus, you will have a 1.6x crop in the body. You don't need the f2.8 end but a high quality lens will pay dividends when your post cropping!

I'm a great fan of the Sigma 120-300mm f2.8 including the brand new one which is stunning!!!! Combined with a Canon or Sigma 1.4x converter you will have a great but heavy combo. I never use mine on a monopod as they are too restrictive when you need to pan.

Also Canon's 400mm f5.6 is great or the 500mm f4 which is a monster lens for bikes if you can justify the price!!!!!
 
I'm now leaning towards a new lens, the main reason i was thinking a new body was because i though it wasn't 100% crisp in my opinion. I thought this was due to the either the quality of the body or the speed of it. If you guys think the glass is to fault ill go that route. I know that sharpness is normally due to the lens i just though maybe this time it could be due to a entry body.
 
I think Jonathan's just summarised it all perfectly! Perhaps an indication of your budget may help narrow the options down a bit?
 
samuel235 said:
I'm now leaning towards a new lens, the main reason i was thinking a new body was because i though it wasn't 100% crisp in my opinion. I thought this was due to the either the quality of the body or the speed of it. If you guys think the glass is to fault ill go that route. I know that sharpness is normally due to the lens i just though maybe this time it could be due to a entry body.
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Could u elaborate on your definition for "Crisp"?
Sharpness, contrast or?
I wonder what has it got to link with quality of body?
What is the main reasons that made u want to change?
 
Samuel,i was looking at your photos through the iPhone previously and this is the first time iam looking at it through my computer screen in full size. iam not sure how much PP u had done to it.
but looking at the noise level,iam guessing it was shot at around ISO800 for #1 and ISO 640 for #4?
now iam trying to guess that your definition of "crisp" is that the image isn't sharp and smooth,is that what u mean?
if so,it looks like the noise is affecting the image quality and the lens sharpness is limited.
your skill for both #1 and #4 seems alright and i don't see any motion blur,maybe u should take note on your camera settings.
probably u can try to shoot them at ISO 100 to compare again.

as for #2,the ISO seems pretty high.i can see the noise affecting the image quality and the focus looks to be off(somewhere at the corner on those red/white tarmac).
i guess u were shooting in either AV or TV mode with auto ISO?
 
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Darren, I don't really have a budget, i will find out what is the 'right' choice and then i save/spend accordingly. I suppose i should be saying anything around the £1000 mark, ISH.

Eric, by crisp i mean, sharpness. The only reason why i wanted to change something is it isnt crisp enough for my liking. Like i said originally i don't mind the change that is needed to be skill, i just wanted to know what you guys thought. In essence I'm trying to get two results here, more keeps and a better image quality on the keeps.

I have done very little PP, just a levels change in all and a smart sharpen in one of them... i can't tell you which one because the images wont load in my browser. The ISOs that i used were no more than 400 - I shot completely manual and kept it below 400, i got a feeling those 4 are all 100 or 200.
 
Hi guys, sorry you cant see the images yet, i have ran out of my bandwidth on my site, ill get it sorted first thing saturday when i get home from working away. Sorry again!
 
I would, except the photos are too wide. Can't resize since i don't have the actual photos until saturday. Sorry guys.
 
Have a look at the 70-300L

I tried both the 70-200L 2.8ii and f4 is lenses and the bought to 70-300L for the following reasons

No need for a converter less dust and fiddling about
Image quality up there with the 2.8ii
IS is stunning can shoot at 1/60 @300mm hand held
F 5.6 at 300mm still seperates background
I shoot wide open most of the time it is sharp!!
Lighter than the 2.8 shorter than both
Cheaper than both + converter half of the 2.8Ii
Less than £1000 imported

I must have had mine two years now and still think it is awesome so never a regret.

You will want a better body soon after though. I got the 7D from a 500D and what an upgrade.

The 7D and 70-300L seem made for each other!
 
I shall have a look at that at some point today then. Thanks for giving me another option Martin.
 
Before i go figuring stuff out, i think its the right time to ask 'Do you think I'm ready for a L Series lens?' AND 'Do you think I'm ready for a 7d?'.

Even if you are answering yes to either of these, could you please tell me if I'm getting 90% of all i can get out of this setup? Could i be improving my skills with this kit to be getting relatively better results?

The only reason i ask this is because i would like to get my skill level within 80-90% of where it can possibly be with shooting this kit, simply because i feel there is no need to 'upgrade' if I'm not making full use of current kit.

If I'm getting answers of 'yes' i personally think i need to be getting within around the 400mm zoom mark, cause I'm just not satisfied with the distance between the camera and the object when it comes to the finished result.

Thank you!
 
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