Upgrade Nikon 300 f4 to 300 f2.8 (for Birding)

@gramps no that's exactly what I wanted to hear! :) I have read quite a few places saying that VR is invaluable even on support so I wasn't sure, but @Mikechappers post and everybody else who's posted has told me what I wanted to hear, that VR isn't essential and so I'll go for the 500.

@AdamSi Sorry what I mean is that I can afford the 500mm with no VR (seen for £2500) but the VR versions I've seen are about £4500 so basically £2k more.
 
Got to agree with Mike, Gramps and Chris. If I was more able I would prefer to have 300 & 500mm lenses with the use of a 1.4TC over a one lens 300mm f2.8 with VR. Lenses of this age don't loose much money, if any, and if you decided you want to change, there would be less of a cost to outlay.

If you were to go the above route with the two lenses, you could possibly in time, look to add a FF camera to go with your D7200, to give you the best of both worlds.
 
I have just come back from 10 days safari in Tanzania. I used my 600mm 70 to 80% of the time. I used 300mm f2.8 10% of the time and 70/200mm 20% of the time
 
I have just spent a few weeks in S Africa ....... still here ........ taking mainly "bird" shots .......... many small and very small ......... I used my 300mm f2.8 VR 25% of the time and the 300mm f4 PF (with and without the TC14E), 75% of the time for such shots. I will not bother taking the 300mm f2.8 VR next year ......... the 300mm f2.8VR was on bean bag or tripod and the PF always hand held
I would say that 90% of the bird shots that I have posted on here in the past few weeks were taken with the 300 f4 PF

Back at base I use the 600mm f4 with and without the TC and the 300mm f4 with and without the TC - I (now) hardly ever use the 300mm f2.8 VR for birds

I generally do not like zooms for birds

but we are all different
 
Last edited:
BillN_33 said:
I have just spent a few weeks in S Africa ....... still here ........ taking mainly "bird" shots .......... many small and very small ......... I used my 300mm f2.8 VR 25% of the time and the 300mm f4 PF (with and without the TC14E), 75% of the time for such shots. I will not bother taking the 300mm f2.8 VR next year ......... the 300mm f2.8VR was on bean bag or tripod and the PF always hand held
I would say that 90% of the bird shots that I have posted on here in the past few weeks were taken with the 300 f4 PF

Back at base I use the 600mm f4 with and without the TC and the 300mm f4 with and without the TC - I (now) hardly ever use the 300mm f2.8 VR for birds

I generally do not like zooms for birds

but we are all different
Click to expand...
Interesting that you use the 300f4 for most of the shots Bill, what body have you used with it?
I'm going to be in Chris's situation later this year and am considering a switch to Nikon, always been a Canon man before but the Nikon bodies seem to be outdoing the Canon ones lately so I'm curious.
 
BillN_33 said:
I have just spent a few weeks in S Africa ....... still here ........ taking mainly "bird" shots .......... many small and very small ......... I used my 300mm f2.8 VR 25% of the time and the 300mm f4 PF (with and without the TC14E), 75% of the time for such shots. I will not bother taking the 300mm f2.8 VR next year ......... the 300mm f2.8VR was on bean bag or tripod and the PF always hand held
I would say that 90% of the bird shots that I have posted on here in the past few weeks were taken with the 300 f4 PF

Back at base I use the 600mm f4 with and without the TC and the 300mm f4 with and without the TC - I (now) hardly ever use the 300mm f2.8 VR for birds

I generally do not like zooms for birds

but we are all different
Click to expand...

I've decided on the 500f4 non VR and will get the 300f4 as a walkabout. In two minds about the PF vs non PF. Id love to have it as I'm sure it's amazing like you say, but a second hand copy of the one that was stolen from me costs 529, the PF costs over 1000. Not sure I can afford that now that I have to replace my other stolen items (bag, memory cards, TC1.4). If I could find a sub £1000 used one I'd snap it up but I've looked around and can't find one.
 
wardy07 said:
Interesting that you use the 300f4 for most of the shots Bill, what body have you used with it?
I'm going to be in Chris's situation later this year and am considering a switch to Nikon, always been a Canon man before but the Nikon bodies seem to be outdoing the Canon ones lately so I'm curious.
Click to expand...

I use it with the D750 and the TC14E and with the D7200 - Chris was asking really about the 300mm f2.8VR - the 300mm f4 PF is so light, easy to use and flexible ...... the IQ is good with the TC14 - the AFS 300mm f4 is also very good and once you just get used to it you can get over it not having VR - I think the the Nikon 300mm AFS f4 is one of the best lens around, particularly for the money....... I do not think that there is any different IQ wise between the AFS and the PF 300mm f4
Prior to the D750, I used a D300 and D700 - I (much) prefer to crop the FX unless the light is good enough to shoot DX at ISO 800 and below

Canon are very good - their 600mm f4 is stellar and the 400mm f5.6 is a classic - I would think that they will update their lens this year - if you look at many serious and no so serious bird and wildlife photographer you will see the white lenses all over the place.

I think that what you discover the more you shoot is that getting positioned well, (near), is really important plus get to know what habitat birds prefer and many will come back to the same place time and time again if you just wait patiently.

But as I said, once I get back to France I'll spend lots of time sitting in a "tent" as near as I can get to the birds with my 600mm lens sticking out - but walking around and getting the shot is different - hand held for me the 300mm f2.8 is just too heavy and on a monp[od awkward ...... well if you are going to shoot lots from a tripod buy a non VR 500mm or 600mm as they are cheaper than the later stuff.

The 300mm f2.8 VR is a very good lens - it is good for portraits (as well as birds), but it is heavy, and no amount of VR can cure that
 
Last edited:
htid said:
I've decided on the 500f4 non VR and will get the 300f4 as a walkabout. In two minds about the PF vs non PF. Id love to have it as I'm sure it's amazing like you say, but a second hand copy of the one that was stolen from me costs 529, the PF costs over 1000. Not sure I can afford that now that I have to replace my other stolen items (bag, memory cards, TC1.4). If I could find a sub £1000 used one I'd snap it up but I've looked around and can't find one.
Click to expand...

just a note Chris - these longer lens take a little getting used to - and you may be disappointed at first - I was, but it was me not the lens that was at fault
 
BillN_33 said:
just a note Chris - these longer lens take a little getting used to - and you may be disappointed at first - I was, but it was me not the lens that was at fault
Click to expand...


I was going to say exactly the same thing Bill, they do take a bit of getting use too, one of the first problems I found especially with flying birds was actually finding it in the view finder, when I did find it, missing the focus and having the focus shoot over the horizon somewhere, now its second nature to me, but frustrating till I improved my aim, it all comes with practice.
 
Yeah I'm sure it'll be difficult at first...1050mm with TC and crop factor on monopod will be hard to keep still! Hopefully perseverance will pay off!
 
Thanks Bill
BillN_33 said:
I use it with the D750 and the TC14E and with the D7200 - Chris was asking really about the 300mm f2.8VR - the 300mm f4 PF is so light, easy to use and flexible ...... the IQ is good with the TC14 - the AFS 300mm f4 is also very good and once you just get used to it you can get over it not having VR - I think the the Nikon 300mm AFS f4 is one of the best lens around, particularly for the money....... I do not think that there is any different IQ wise between the AFS and the PF 300mm f4
Prior to the D750, I used a D300 and D700 - I (much) prefer to crop the FX unless the light is good enough to shoot DX at ISO 800 and below

Canon are very good - their 600mm f4 is stellar and the 400mm f5.6 is a classic - I would think that they will update their lens this year - if you look at many serious and no so serious bird and wildlife photographer you will see the white lenses all over the place.

I think that what you discover the more you shoot is that getting positioned well, (near), is really important plus get to know what habitat birds prefer and many will come back to the same place time and time again if you just wait patiently.

But as I said, once I get back to France I'll spend lots of time sitting in a "tent" as near as I can get to the birds with my 600mm lens sticking out - but walking around and getting the shot is different - hand held for me the 300mm f2.8 is just too heavy and on a monp[od awkward ...... well if you are going to shoot lots from a tripod buy a non VR 500mm or 600mm as they are cheaper than the later stuff.

The 300mm f2.8 VR is a very good lens - it is good for portraits (as well as birds), but it is heavy, and no amount of VR can cure that
Click to expand...
- I've had the Canon 600 f4 before and to be honest, most of the 'big white' primes, but I was interested to ask what the Nikon equivalents were like as I've been looking at shots taken with various Nikon bodies recently and wondered if a switch would be worth considering. I've seen that a lot of people are using the D7200 for wildlife and the D750 / 810. The only down side would be learning a new menu system but I guess that's just a case of getting used to it really. I'll have to try some out when I'm ready to decide but a 500mm lens of some description is a must for birds imo.
 
htid said:
Yeah I'm sure it'll be difficult at first...1050mm with TC and crop factor on monopod will be hard to keep still! Hopefully perseverance will pay off!
Click to expand...

If I could give one bit of advice, it would be to practice hand holding the lens, it will open up a lot more opportunities, though I fully realise that for some this is not an option, though its invaluable for high flying birds if you can master it and of course if one is fit enough to be able to handhold it, of course it all comes down to the type of birding you do as well, my type of birding is that im nearly always on the move, I have tried using a support but found it an hindrance, never used mine in an hide as they are few and far between down here in Cornwall, but I would imagine if I did than the lens would be on a tripod, the same if your photographing birds at home in the garden, a tripod or some form of support would make life easier.

If you should try hand holding the lens I found supporting it in my hand palm up under the lens body at the point of balance works best for me, though I have seen some supporting it using the lens foot, I tried an found it very difficult as the lens is so out of balance, no way could I hold it steady.
 
Mikechappers said:
If I could give one bit of advice, it would be to practice hand holding the lens, it will open up a lot more opportunities, though I fully realise that for some this is not an option, though its invaluable for high flying birds if you can master it and of course if one is fit enough to be able to handhold it, of course it all comes down to the type of birding you do as well, my type of birding is that im nearly always on the move, I have tried using a support but found it an hindrance, never used mine in an hide as they are few and far between down here in Cornwall, but I would imagine if I did than the lens would be on a tripod, the same if your photographing birds at home in the garden, a tripod or some form of support would make life easier.

If you should try hand holding the lens I found supporting it in my hand palm up under the lens body at the point of balance works best for me, though I have seen some supporting it using the lens foot, I tried an found it very difficult as the lens is so out of balance, no way could I hold it steady.
Click to expand...

I'm sure I'll end up hand holding at some point but if I'm spending that money on a lens I want the images to be as sharp as possible. Without VR I think I'll stick to a monopod most of the time, possibly taking it off for impromptu BIF.

Out of interest, where are you in Cornwall? I'm here right now, in Falmouth, visiting my girlfriend who is studying at University of Exeter at the Falmouth campus.
 
htid said:
I'm sure I'll end up hand holding at some point but if I'm spending that money on a lens I want the images to be as sharp as possible. Without VR I think I'll stick to a monopod most of the time, possibly taking it off for impromptu BIF.

Out of interest, where are you in Cornwall? I'm here right now, in Falmouth, visiting my girlfriend who is studying at University of Exeter at the Falmouth campus.
Click to expand...

Live in mid Cornwall on the coast near St Austell, though if i'm honest most of the birding local to me is not up to much so im usually to be found on the cliffs, valleys and on the Moors of West Cornwall, its a well renowned area for birds, especially if your looking to find the scarcer birds.

As has being already said, keep your shutter speed up for sharp shots, though of course we all get crap shots, me just about every time I go out, but the good ones make it all worthwhile.
 
Last edited:
Mikechappers said:
Live in mid Cornwall on the coast near St Austell, though if i'm honest most of the birding local to me is not up to much so im usually to be found on the cliffs, valleys and on the Moors of West Cornwall, its a well renowned area for birds, especially if your looking to find the scarcer birds.

As has being already said, keep your shutter speed up for sharp shots, though of course we all get crap shots, me just about every time I go out, but the good ones make it all worthwhile.
Click to expand...

Good to hear...what areas are good, any info? :) once I get my lens I'd like to explore the area a bit but don't know much about the birding sites down here except the mudflats I go past on the train at dawlish and teinmouth.
 
htid said:
Good to hear...what areas are good, any info? :) once I get my lens I'd like to explore the area a bit but don't know much about the birding sites down here except the mudflats I go past on the train at dawlish and teinmouth.
Click to expand...


Keep an eye on this site http://www.cbwps.org.uk/cbwpsword/sightings/

Its updated every evening around 11pm it gives locations of the birds spotted on the day, so a lot of useful info to be found there, but most of the area's in West Cornwall are good especially on or near the coast, Cot valley, Porthgwarra, Kendijack are renowned for turning up good birds, though your own transport is essential to get to them, but in general anywhere down that way is good, especially in the next coming weeks. If you want Raptors then either on the coast or on the higher moors down that way are all good on the day.

You can always send me a private message as some info I will not give out on a public forum especially with the protected birds which are now entering the
breeding season, they need all the help they can get. My apologies if that comes across as patronising, but there are good reasons for it.
 
Mikechappers said:
Keep an eye on this site http://www.cbwps.org.uk/cbwpsword/sightings/

Its updated every evening around 11pm it gives locations of the birds spotted on the day, so a lot of useful info to be found there, but most of the area's in West Cornwall are good especially on or near the coast, Cot valley, Porthgwarra, Kendijack are renowned for turning up good birds, though your own transport is essential to get to them, but in general anywhere down that way is good, especially in the next coming weeks. If you want Raptors then either on the coast or on the higher moors down that way are all good on the day.

You can always send me a private message as some info I will not give out on a public forum especially with the protected birds which are now entering the
breeding season, they need all the help they can get. My apologies if that comes across as patronising, but there are good reasons for it.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, it doesn't come across as patronising at all and I completely understand! The welfare of the birds is of paramount importance so I wouldn't want you to do anything to jeopardise that. Thanks for the links, they look interesting and will have to keep an eye on them! Unfortunately I don't drive so the places you've mentioned are probably impossible for me to get to, but thanks anyway.
 
With regards holding, I'm trying to get used to focusing with the front buttons just behind the lens hood on my 500 as that seems a god place to balance / hold it too but think I need to man up as the 500 does certainly pull on my arms lol
 
AdamSi said:
With regards holding, I'm trying to get used to focusing with the front buttons just behind the lens hood on my 500 as that seems a god place to balance / hold it too but think I need to man up as the 500 does certainly pull on my arms lol
Click to expand...

Well I'm far from being well built! I'm only 5'6 so the lens is nearly as tall as me! I'll need to start working out to hold this beast!
 
htid said:
Well I'm far from being well built! I'm only 5'6 so the lens is nearly as tall as me! I'll need to start working out to hold this beast!
Click to expand...
Size isn't everything Chris, or at least that's what I'm led to believe ;)
 
Mikechappers said:
I was going to say exactly the same thing Bill, they do take a bit of getting use too, one of the first problems I found especially with flying birds was actually finding it in the view finder, when I did find it, missing the focus and having the focus shoot over the horizon somewhere, now its second nature to me, but frustrating till I improved my aim, it all comes with practice.
Click to expand...
Mike I had the same problem with my 600mm f4 until I read a tip on another forum. I make sure that my lens hood locking nut is on the top and in the center. I then use the locking nut on the lens hood like a rifle sight with the back sight being the flash mount. I follow whatever is moving, looking over the top of the viewfinder and then when I see everything lined up (like shooting a rifle) I look through the viewfinder at the same time raising the front of the camera a little ................ nine times out of ten you will find whatever you are looking for in the viewfinder.
I hope all that helps
 
ndwgolf said:
Mike I had the same problem with my 600mm f4 until I read a tip on another forum. I make sure that my lens hood locking nut is on the top and in the center. I then use the locking nut on the lens hood like a rifle sight with the back sight being the flash mount. I follow whatever is moving, looking over the top of the viewfinder and then when I see everything lined up (like shooting a rifle) I look through the viewfinder at the same time raising the front of the camera a little ................ nine times out of ten you will find whatever you are looking for in the viewfinder.
I hope all that helps
Click to expand...



Thanks Neil, that was when I first started using a long lens a few years back, like I said its second nature to me now, but its a good tip all the same for anyone starting out, I am sure it will be of help to them :)
 
htid said:
Well I'm far from being well built! I'm only 5'6 so the lens is nearly as tall as me! I'll need to start working out to hold this beast!
Click to expand...
Yes it's quite some weight to get used to handholding!
 
wardy07 said:
Size isn't everything Chris, or at least that's what I'm led to believe ;)
Click to expand...
Try telling that to my arms and I'm 6ft 1 and fairly well built but they still scream if holding that lens too long hahaha
 
Just a quick one before I take the plunge tomorrow...when using the 500mm in a hide, have any of you had issues with the lens hood being too big to fit through the opening? I've suddenly realised that what I've always done (resting my 300f4 on the beanbag and just waiting) might not be possible because a) it might not fit through and b) it might protrude too far out of the hide which people may not be happy about.

Any thoughts?
 
htid said:
Just a quick one before I take the plunge tomorrow...when using the 500mm in a hide, have any of you had issues with the lens hood being too big to fit through the opening? I've suddenly realised that what I've always done (resting my 300f4 on the beanbag and just waiting) might not be possible because a) it might not fit through and b) it might protrude too far out of the hide which people may not be happy about.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I visit a couple of hides where the hood won't fit through ... I remove it and carry on taking pics :D
Never worried about it poking out too far.
 
gramps said:
I visit a couple of hides where the hood won't fit through ... I remove it and carry on taking pics :D
Never worried about it poking out too far.
Click to expand...

That's good then...now to find a backpack hmm. Maybe I should start a new thread!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top