Beginner Upgrading

[Nod]

I have always wanted a second camera and i figured while i have the money and its coming up to christmas i may aswell treat myself after reading all these posts i have been thinking should i buy a new camera body or should i just buy new lenses

TBH, until you know exactly (or even nearly!) what you want in a body that your current one doesn't offer, I would get new (or 2nd hand) lenses. I would be tempted to go for FF compatible lenses rather than expanding the EF-S (I hope I've got the terminology right - I'm a Nikon/Fuji user rather than Canon!) lineup to avoid future expense and hassle IF a move to full frame might be on the cards.

 

[fracster]

What I've said a 100 times:
Beginners think it's about cameras
Enthusiasts think it's about lenses
Photographers know it's all about light.

In short, if you want to spend some money to improve your photography, get some training, then you'll realise what's holding you back, then you can improve the gear to make a real difference.

Absolutely spot on Phil. I`ve been out with the camera today and did not take a photo due to the awful light, I just walked around and looked at things for future days out. The best camera in the world would not have changed that. Make the most of what you have ,when the equipment starts to holds you back, then you need to upgrade.

 

[ADA]

What I've said a 100 times:
Beginners think it's about cameras
Enthusiasts think it's about lenses
Photographers know it's all about light.

In short, if you want to spend some money to improve your photography, get some training, then you'll realise what's holding you back, then you can improve the gear to make a real difference.

Not saying you are wrong. But I will say your comments are probably misplaced. I'm guessing you are a professional photographer whereas the author of the thread is a hobbyist. I have been a professional driver and would be truthful if I told a petrolhead:

Beginners think it is about horse power
Enthusiasts think it is about torque
Drivers know it is about getting safely from one place to another.

But this wouldn't help a hobbyist enjoy his or her hobby. Nor would suggesting he go on an advanced driving course or CPC training. I am a total beginner to photography so would not doubt your knowledge in the area but I think it would be more helpful to the OP to share your knowledge of the benefits or pitfalls he may face with a new camera or advise him on why he should stick with the one he has rather then simply imply it is foolish to want a new one.

 

[Phil V]

Not saying you are wrong. But I will say your comments are probably misplaced. I'm guessing you are a professional photographer whereas the author of the thread is a hobbyist. I have been a professional driver and would be truthful if I told a petrolhead:

Beginners think it is about horse power
Enthusiasts think it is about torque
Drivers know it is about getting safely from one place to another.

But this wouldn't help a hobbyist enjoy his or her hobby. Nor would suggesting he go on an advanced driving course or CPC training. I am a total beginner to photography so would not doubt your knowledge in the area but I think it would be more helpful to the OP to share your knowledge of the benefits or pitfalls he may face with a new camera or advise him on why he should stick with the one he has rather then simply imply it is foolish to want a new one.

Would advising someone to get a new car improve their driving?

I'm not suggesting a 'safer photography' course, I'm suggesting the OP learns more about what makes a picture great, and how to create great pictures.

Buying a new camera will make the OP feel good for a few weeks, playing with his shiny new toy, but then it won't be new any more and he'll be in exactly the same position he is now. Is that helpful?

I tried to share the benefits and pitfalls as best I could with the information available. Unless the OP tells us what he feels his current camera lacks then we can't tell him what to buy so we can't say what benefits he can expect.

As for pitfalls, buying a new camera is rarely the answer, I thought I'd done that too.

Unfortunately, you appear to fall into the group who believe that buying a new camera will magically help the OP, that doesn't make it true. It's impossible for me to extoll the virtues of a new camera, because as I said in my post; there aren't any because it's the wrong answer.

If the OP had a great bunch of gear and was asking what to spend his money on, I'd suggest a trip. Because gear is only the answer when existing gear is the weak link, not just 'for a change'.

 

[Alastair]

But this wouldn't help a hobbyist enjoy his or her hobby. Nor would suggesting he go on an advanced driving course or CPC training. I am a total beginner to photography so would not doubt your knowledge in the area but I think it would be more helpful to the OP to share your knowledge of the benefits or pitfalls he may face with a new camera or advise him on why he should stick with the one he has rather then simply imply it is foolish to want a new one.

The arguments about sticking with what you've got vs. buying a new camera have been hashed over a thousand times on the forum - but everyone assumes their question is new and no one ever reads anyone else's threads..

Beginners and hobbyists rarely upgrade because they need to, any camera made in the last five years is good enough for most purposes. Upgrading is most often an itch that must be scratched and no more than that.

When there is a need to upgrade, the need will define the upgrade and you'll know that when the question changes from "Should I upgrade?" to, "If I upgrade from X to Y will this give me the <improved characteristic> I need to do <specific project in mind>?"

 

[ADA]

Would advising someone to get a new car improve their driving?

I'm not suggesting a 'safer photography' course, I'm suggesting the OP learns more about what makes a picture great, and how to create great pictures.

Buying a new camera will make the OP feel good for a few weeks, playing with his shiny new toy, but then it won't be new any more and he'll be in exactly the same position he is now. Is that helpful?

I tried to share the benefits and pitfalls as best I could with the information available. Unless the OP tells us what he feels his current camera lacks then we can't tell him what to buy so we can't say what benefits he can expect.

As for pitfalls, buying a new camera is rarely the answer, I thought I'd done that too.

Unfortunately, you appear to fall into the group who believe that buying a new camera will magically help the OP, that doesn't make it true. It's impossible for me to extoll the virtues of a new camera, because as I said in my post; there aren't any because it's the wrong answer.

If the OP had a great bunch of gear and was asking what to spend his money on, I'd suggest a trip. Because gear is only the answer when existing gear is the weak link, not just 'for a change'.

I've had a look at your website and you are a fine photographer but perhaps not so great at comprehension (or my exposition was lacking) - my homily and yours say the same thing. I agree with you that getting new equipment won't make the OP a better photographer. But then I don't think he has ever said it would. He wants, as you say, a shiny new toy just like hobbyists in thousands of areas do the world over (and good luck to him if he can afford it). I can understand why your perspective is that this is daft and he would be better off spending the money on other things. My point is that if you want to try and get that across to him and help other beginners who, like myself, read these threads to try and learn from people who, like you, are better at this than we are then actually offering some advice or information would be a better way to do it than some homespun wisdom that says something I'm pretty sure everyone understands to be true anyway.

You mention doing a course - I've looked at the adult education information in my area and the only beginners one I can find starts in September next year and I am not sure if I can make the evenings they would want anyway. If you have any information on where the OP, I or others could find a course or whether there are any online courses worth a damn that would be great. If you have any thoughts on exercises or routines that the OP could try out to learn more about portraiture with his own camera that might help get your point across and help other beginners. Even, as you include above, the suggestion to spend the money getting out somewhere to take pictures is at least a positive answer - if you could expand a bit on where might be good to go for portraiture and why, that would be even better and it might get the OP or just us other poor eejit beginners thinking about photography in different ways. But a negative post with no information or advice which is vaguely condescending toward beginners to someone who is a beginner in a forum specifically for beginners just seems.....well, a little pointless.

 

[Phil V]

I've had a look at your website and you are a fine photographer but perhaps not so great at comprehension (or my exposition was lacking) - my homily and yours say the same thing. I agree with you that getting new equipment won't make the OP a better photographer. But then I don't think he has ever said it would. He wants, as you say, a shiny new toy just like hobbyists in thousands of areas do the world over (and good luck to him if he can afford it). I can understand why your perspective is that this is daft and he would be better off spending the money on other things. My point is that if you want to try and get that across to him and help other beginners who, like myself, read these threads to try and learn from people who, like you, are better at this than we are then actually offering some advice or information would be a better way to do it than some homespun wisdom that says something I'm pretty sure everyone understands to be true anyway.

There's much you understand about the OP's situation, but little you understand about people like the OP.
When you asked for help in your starter thread, you gave much information to help people to know exactly what you wanted, you clarified, and you thanked them for the help.
The OP here didn't give enough info to help us to help him, hasn't answered our questions and has almost certainly disappeared until either he needs more help using the new camera he's bought, or he feels it's time to upgrade that one.
You see, I spend too much time on photo forums

You mention doing a course - I've looked at the adult education information in my area and the only beginners one I can find starts in September next year and I am not sure if I can make the evenings they would want anyway. If you have any information on where the OP, I or others could find a course or whether there are any online courses worth a damn that would be great. If you have any thoughts on exercises or routines that the OP could try out to learn more about portraiture with his own camera that might help get your point across and help other beginners. Even, as you include above, the suggestion to spend the money getting out somewhere to take pictures is at least a positive answer - if you could expand a bit on where might be good to go for portraiture and why, that would be even better and it might get the OP or just us other poor eejit beginners thinking about photography in different ways. But a negative post with no information or advice which is vaguely condescending toward beginners to someone who is a beginner in a forum specifically for beginners just seems.....well, a little pointless.

Again, this is a question with too many variables for me to give a simple answer, some people learn all they need from forums, some from tutorials and YouTube videos, some will benefit from short intensive courses, and others are happy to sign up for a 3 year college course.

Initially I was self taught, but then I did a city and guilds part time of an evening. Many of the younger members have learned everything from the interwebs. If I was 20 years younger I'd have done the same.

There was nothing in my post which was even remotely condescending, that phrase dates back years and is simply just true. And it's something beginners ought to at least consider the validity of, rather than seeing it as a point to argue about or question the motive of.

More than that though, I suggested the OP did some learning so that he would be able to take advantage of better gear, not that he should just learn how to take pictures rather than buy new toys, which would have been condescending.

 

[Iceax]

Im sure im not the only that started buying the best body i could afford and spent little to nothing on lenses.

Now I have a collection of poor lenses which aren't really worth selling,plus a collection of decent lenses that will outlast any body i buy (unless i drop any ha)

So my 2cents worth is buy well and buy once - invest in glass, bodies will come and go but GOOD glass will last a lifetime.

A

 

[bovey9]

I had a 1D MKIII great camera if you get a good one. I now shoot a 1DX now that is something special.

 

[ADA]

There was nothing in my post which was even remotely condescending, that phrase dates back years and is simply just true. And it's something beginners ought to at least consider the validity of, rather than seeing it as a point to argue about or question the motive of.

More than that though, I suggested the OP did some learning so that he would be able to take advantage of better gear, not that he should just learn how to take pictures rather than buy new toys, which would have been condescending.

Sorry I didn't reply before - the heating went up the spout so I've been elbow deep in flux and copper. If you didn't mean to be condescending then I'm very happy to take you at your word but it did come across that way to me - a beginner in a beginner's forum. As for the homily - it is a saying that expresses an obvious truth that nobody is going to argue with (which is why it came across as condescending) although it is, as many such sayings are, quite inaccurate in itself. Photography is about the recording of light. I know you did suggest some training but, without some actual information on the topic (what options there are, which courses are good, where is a reliable internet source, etc.) it just seemed like a flippant remark.

I understand you did not mean it in this way but I feel I should point out that it did come across as quite negative (to me at least) simply because this is a beginners forum and, it seems to me, there are enough obstacles to surmount for beginners without (perceived) negativity to our endeavours.

Also, as somebody who does know a great deal, please don't feel you have to give exact responses to questions. Some of the most useful things I have read in forums have been responses to nebulous questions. One request for general comments on "which lens" led to the posting of the address of a website where you can see photos taken by specific cameras/lenses - www.pbase.com/search - this has been incredibly useful during reading about lenses in general and looking at specific lenses too. The photgraphs often have more information such as focal length, aperture and shutter speed as well. I'm sure it is difficult to put yourself in the position of a beginner but photography itself is such a broad, nebulous and, to the unitiated, alien topic that any specific information or encouragement is a godsend whereas just saying "get some training" is somewhat dispiriting.

 

[Phil V]

Sorry I didn't reply before - the heating went up the spout so I've been elbow deep in flux and copper. If you didn't mean to be condescending then I'm very happy to take you at your word but it did come across that way to me - a beginner in a beginner's forum. As for the homily - it is a saying that expresses an obvious truth that nobody is going to argue with (which is why it came across as condescending) although it is, as many such sayings are, quite inaccurate in itself. Photography is about the recording of light. I know you did suggest some training but, without some actual information on the topic (what options there are, which courses are good, where is a reliable internet source, etc.) it just seemed like a flippant remark.

I understand you did not mean it in this way but I feel I should point out that it did come across as quite negative (to me at least) simply because this is a beginners forum and, it seems to me, there are enough obstacles to surmount for beginners without (perceived) negativity to our endeavours.

Also, as somebody who does know a great deal, please don't feel you have to give exact responses to questions. Some of the most useful things I have read in forums have been responses to nebulous questions. One request for general comments on "which lens" led to the posting of the address of a website where you can see photos taken by specific cameras/lenses - www.pbase.com/search - this has been incredibly useful during reading about lenses in general and looking at specific lenses too. The photgraphs often have more information such as focal length, aperture and shutter speed as well. I'm sure it is difficult to put yourself in the position of a beginner but photography itself is such a broad, nebulous and, to the unitiated, alien topic that any specific information or encouragement is a godsend whereas just saying "get some training" is somewhat dispiriting.

As I have already said, without more info from the OP it's impossible to recommend specific training.
And as I said previously, it takes a special kind of viewpoint to distill my original post down to 'get some training'. Not to mention a complete misunderstanding of 'it's all about light'. Quality of light is what makes great pictures, not quality of gear.

Anyway, despite your help and my advice, the OP long since bought a new camera, it wouldn't have been my recommendation in a month of Sundays, but I'll presume he's happy with his decision.

 

[ADA]

As I have already said, without more info from the OP it's impossible to recommend specific training.
And as I said previously, it takes a special kind of viewpoint to distill my original post down to 'get some training'. Not to mention a complete misunderstanding of 'it's all about light'. Quality of light is what makes great pictures, not quality of gear.

Anyway, despite your help and my advice, the OP long since bought a new camera, it wouldn't have been my recommendation in a month of Sundays, but I'll presume he's happy with his decision.

It takes a special kind of viewpoint to read my posts and think I misunderstood your homily regarding light rather than it being about the sense (or not) in making condescending and negative posts to people in the beginners forum but I see this is not something you wish to take on board. Good luck to you in your other endeavours sir.

 

[tris101]

If you are set on changing your equipment look for a 2nd hand 50D, 60D or 7D. If you went for the 50D (which is a nice upgrade from the 350D) you would have some money left for a lens, the 17-55 F2.8 is great lens on crop body. But it depends what you want to take photos of, for landscapes you might want 10-20 for wildlife you will need something with a much longer range, or maybe you would like to do some macro.

 

[lightshipman]

i have decided on the Canon 1D mark III but i am gonna wait another few months before i get it

If you wait a few months you may think you are better off with better lens.

 

[big soft moose]

If you just want a second camera and you are happy staying with crop I'd say a 50D or a 650D- both of which are £200-300 second hand, if you want to spend a bit more you can get a 60D, 70D or 7D mk1 for about 400-600 again second hand

If you want a full frame body for portraiture , a 5Dmk1 (sometimes called the 5D classic) will cost you about 300-400 second hand, while 6Ds can be had for 900-1000 new or about 600-700 second hand. You could also look at a 1DS mk1 - for 300 + second hand but be aware of the size and weight of these compared to a 350D (plus as its a pro caera watch out for ones that have had a hard life)

Personally I can't for the life of me think why you'd buy a 1Dmk111 - thos would be an excellent camera for sport, press or wildlife, but for portraiture, i'm not seeing it to be honest as it has neither the benefts of full frame nor of crop (its 1.3 crop, so it won't fit EFs lenses)