upset the local rag editor.

[Lynton]

Submitted a pic to the local rag for inclusion in their Reader's pic of the day. (have a 5/6 strike rate with them at the moment)

This afternoon had a phone call from the pic editor asking to purchase full unconditional copyright of the full sized raw image for £100.

Asked what this meant........... (already had a good idea)

"We can use the image in any publication, can sell it on to other organisations, can sell copies of it to the general public, and can use it to promote the publishing group, Promote Norfolk with the relationship we have with the tourist board..."

At this point I was laughing so loudly, I missed the rest. Sorry got called on this by the humour police.

edit: At this point I had lost interest in his sycophantic waffling and fawning, and was bitterly disappointed with the what I consider to be a low offer given the rights I would be expected to transfer.

Humour police alert 2

Did tell him to rethink his offer , edit 2: Again, did do this in a much more professional way, however, I assumed the population of TP, would prefer not to read a word for word blow by blow account.......... of who said what to whom, when and how........... so distilled down, I did suggest he may wish to reconsider the offer if he was seriously hoping to purchase the image...


and given that they now have a usable file size I reminded him that the initial submission did state clearly that in submitting the picture I am in no way whatsoever passing on ownership , copyright, etc etc..........






Edit 3:

Do I need sign off from the humour police to ensure all is well?

 

[norvic-boy]

Nice going Lynton!

 

[POAH]

lol @ £100

 

[artyman]

It seems to me that he wasn't attempting to misappropriate your image, he made an offer of £100 for the copyright, now whether you think that is sufficient, is up to you, but from what you have said he acted correctly, so I don't understand your implication that he was attempting to pinch your image.

 

[Lynton]

It seems to me that he wasn't attempting to misappropriate your image, he made an offer of £100 for the copyright, now whether you think that is sufficient, is up to you, but from what you have said he acted correctly, so I don't understand your implication that he was attempting to pinch your image.

Erm I haven't implied that whatsoever.

 

[phil8139]

C'mon, let's see the image

 

[digitalfailure]

The Question should now be one of, what's the image worth if you can sell it on to other agency's ?

£100 quid in the pocket against the gamble of greater financial gain or a lifetime on the hard drive.

 

[Kemble3]

Well done for getting an offer for your image but this smacks of some rather unprofessional behaviour on your part, not the Picture Editor, after all, he’s just doing his job. Rather than laughing at his offer, maybe employing your business and negotiating skills to get the price you think the image is worth would have been a better option. Telling him to re think he offer isn’t the most effective negotiating method in the world.

 

[Lynton]

C'mon, let's see the image

As requested:

The Question should now be one of, what's the image worth if you can sell it on to other agency's ?

£100 quid in the pocket against the gamble of greater financial gain or a lifetime on the hard drive.

Yep a fair point, and I may well be blowing my own trumpet. however I look at the "staff pics" with a critical eye and often think I can do better. (They have a knack of blowing skies!)

If I sell the copyright, I can do nothing with it, whatsoever, and I think I can sell a few prints of this one, which will nett me more than £100.......

So a gamble, but the initial offer , I thought was a joke.

 

[Lynton]

Well done for getting an offer for your image but this smacks of some rather unprofessional behaviour on your part, not the Picture Editor, after all, he’s just doing his job. Rather than laughing at his offer, maybe employing your business and negotiating skills to get the price you think the image is worth would have been a better option. Telling him to re think he offer isn’t the most effective negotiating method in the world.

"Irony, a bit like bronzy, but made from Iron."

sorry I thought I would try to inject some slight humour into the thread........ obviously, I wasn't laughing down the phone into his ear....... please give me a bit of credit........ :shrug: but I was a bit surprised at the initial, what I think was low, offer.

Tell you what, I'll go rewrite the OP with "He had completely lost my interest now with his sycophantic waffling and fawning!"

 

[Kemble3]

 

[holty]

lynton lovely shot

watch out for the primadona's on this forum they always know best.

you stick to your guns

i could see your sense of humour shining through

 

[phil8139]

It's a great image, well done.

Now you THINK you could sell a few prints, do you have an outlet for it? If you're confident in your sales, why not offer him a licence for the £100, he gets (almost) what he wants, you get your own sales, win-win

 

[ryanyboy]

I'm with you Lynton. Seems to be the editor saw a good picture and thought he could make a tidy profit for his employer by buying the picture from you at a low price.

Despite the lack of humour from some of the posters I can totally understand you're reaction.

All you need to do now is make it pay properly by approaching the said Tourist Board etc and seeing what you can get for it.

Retaining copyright is crucial in this business unless a) you really don't care or b) the price to sell it is good enough for you.

Good thread - shame it's been spoilt by a few people being pedantic over your description

 

[Lynton]

not in the slightest.

That actually made me laugh out loud, but not as loud as when I laughed out loud at the fact you thought I was that unprofessional..........

Seriously , I am not as dumb as to say "rethink your offer" .......

I was just merely condensing 30 mins into 2 mins............. and I am now annoyed, that I have wasted a minute of my life justifying something that doesn't need to be justified, to someone I don't know......... :shrug:

 

[Lynton]

It's a great image, well done.

Now you THINK you could sell a few prints, do you have an outlet for it? If you're confident in your sales, why not offer him a licence for the £100, he gets (almost) what he wants, you get your own sales, win-win

Yes a couple

The reason I haven't offered a license is because until I googled this a few mins ago, I had no idea what you were talking about. Thanks for the idea, I'll go back tomorrow with a few options, that will hopefully ensure both parties are happy.

(Not being a pro - wasn't really aware of all the options, and having 5/6 published makes me think, "Yeah, he can take a half decent pic", and to be honest was caught on the hop a bit, when I got the call, but found the "opening offer" a tad low given what was expected.

I'm with you Lynton. Seems to be the editor saw a good picture and thought he could make a tidy profit for his employer by buying the picture from you at a low price.

Despite the lack of humour from some of the posters I can totally understand you're reaction.

All you need to do now is make it pay properly by approaching the said Tourist Board etc and seeing what you can get for it.

Retaining copyright is crucial in this business unless a) you really don't care or b) the price to sell it is good enough for you.

Good thread - shame it's been spoilt by a few people being pedantic over your description

Cheers Ryan! I (and you) know my sense of humour, and to be honest will take a lot more than this for me to

 

[ChrisGilbert]

Take his money off him and go out and shoot it again :shrug:

 

[joker2006]

Quality thread.

So he told you the offer then went on to tell you he could sell it and make more money basicly. Guess that may have worked in the past with other people.

Fair play with sticking to your guns.

Ps I probably would have laughed down the phone.

Good luck with the editor and on here

 

[TinaC]

Lynton, obviously you need to take the gobstopper out of your mouth when you put your tongue in your cheek

 

[treeman]

Take his money off him and go out and shoot it again :shrug:

Now that is a plan I like

Seriously it would be very easy to re-shoot

 

[Rat scabies]

Fair enough

 

[big soft moose]

This afternoon had a phone call from the pic editor asking to purchase full unconditional copyright of the full sized raw image for £100.

i'd have told him to **** right off (and no not literally if the humour police are still out there)

£100 would be fair for non exclusive use but i think he's missed a zero off if he wants exclusive use and the copyright

 

[Grayo]

The only thing I would worry about now is if the pic editor sends a staff photographer to shoot the same picture. Being a staff photographer for a number of years (now retired) we used to be given tasks now and again to go around and shoot local beauty spots for inclusion in our local towns guides and tourist information publications.

Just hope you've not shot yourself in the foot. :shrug:

Ps It is a very nice shot though.

 

[Lynton]

Take his money off him and go out and shoot it again :shrug:

he, he.. cunning. I like!

Quality thread.

So he told you the offer then went on to tell you he could sell it and make more money basicly. Guess that may have worked in the past with other people.

Fair play with sticking to your guns.

Ps I probably would have laughed down the phone.

Good luck with the editor and on here

Yeah, pretty much but he was too interested in telling me what the copyright entailed, but bang on! "your picture can be used anywhere"... hmmm.... [Jerry Mcguire] "show me the money!!" [/Jerry McGuire]

Lynton, obviously you need to take the gobstopper out of your mouth when you put your tongue in your cheek

Yep. I'll remember that next time!

i'd have told him to **** right off (and no not literally if the humour police are still out there)

£100 would be fair for non exclusive use but i think he's missed a zero off if he wants exclusive use and the copyright

I like your thinking....... pretty much along my line of thought...... or I could of paid the MOT gamble........ It's due on Thursday, you get the pic for the cost of the MOT. It may cost £55. It may cost £550!!!!

The only thing I would worry about now is if the pic editor sends a staff photographer to shoot the same picture. Being a staff photographer for a number of years (now retired) we used to be given tasks now and again to go around and shoot local beauty spots for inclusion in our local towns guides and tourist information publications.

Just hope you've not shot yourself in the foot. :shrug:

Ps It is a very nice shot though.

Thankyou, however I am semi confident that the current staff togs on this publication could not point to it on a map, let alone find it............. maybe that's arrogant, however I flick through the rag every day, and the words seriously and unimpressed spring to mind.


(and yes, before anyone does point out, I am well aware of Google Earth and a quick google of "Morston & Quay" will get you within a few yds.... )

 

[specialman]

I understand that you feel the offer was a low one, especially with rights and usage thrown into the mix, but what have you got? Not money in your pocket, that's for sure. Not being funny or anything, it's an okay shot but nothing totally standout and as you say, it's for your 'local rag' and not National Geographic so the offer is better than nowt at all....

 

[Oxford_Matt]

Well done for getting an offer for your image but this smacks of some rather unprofessional behaviour on your part, not the Picture Editor, after all, he’s just doing his job. Rather than laughing at his offer, maybe employing your business and negotiating skills to get the price you think the image is worth would have been a better option. Telling him to re think he offer isn’t the most effective negotiating method in the world.

I agree.

I do also think it's a nice shot, however I think you may have shot yourself in the foot. You have been offered money for your image albeit not as much as you valued it. Firstly the image can be recreated by any able photographer.
Secondly, it could be a foot in the door to bigger and better things. You may find now that it will sit on your hard drive and be posted on various forums with no rewards. Once you become established you can then name your price.

Again you need to know in your own head what you think it's worth before getting involved in negotiations.

Good Luck & Hope it works in your favour.

Matt

 

[PeteInDorset]

"We can use the image in any publication, can sell it on to other organisations, can sell copies of it to the general public, and can use it to promote the publishing group, Promote Norfolk with the relationship we have with the tourist board..."

Just out of interest what figure would he have had to offer you for you to accept the above?

 

[neil_g]

good on you lynton.

personally id rather not have the money over knowing i had undersold myself. £100 is too low for a transfer of copyright in my opinion if they are going to be reselling it.

we had a national magazine wanting one of our photos for an article on an up and coming sports person last year, we asked how much they were offering, they said nothing, we said bye bye, they ran an out of date stock image, we lost no sleep.

edit - in fact more recently theyve requested photos at their standard photo rate so didnt do us any harm in the long run.

 

[Grayo]

we lost no sleep.

Neither did they. Out of date or not they used a picture, the only one to suffer is the up and coming sports person. Had it been us we would have taken our own picture anyway.

 

[neil_g]

Neither did they. Out of date or not they used a picture,

indeed. the mag/paper will always get a cheaper option from somewhere.

the only one to suffer is the up and coming sports star.

not sure how, they got their article i doubt they were that fussed about an old photo as long as they got into print. either way see my edit, if theyd offered standard rates to start with they may have had their photo.

 

[Grayo]

not sure how, they got their article i doubt they were that fussed about an old photo as long as they got into print. either way see my edit, if theyd offered standard rates to start with they may have had their photo.

I can imagine a picture of an 18 year old lad taken when he was 13 being used LOL god I bet he cringed when he saw it

By the way what is the standard rate these days?

 

[big soft moose]

it could be a foot in the door to bigger and better things. You may find now that it will sit on your hard drive and be posted on various forums with no rewards. Once you become established you can then name your price.

course equally it could make them think they can take the michael as far as your images are concerned.

personally I'd rather not have a sale at all than be taken for a joey

(for example I took the image below a few years back - offered it to the local paper they said £20 for the copyright, I said 'shove it up your fundament' or words to that effect - and they ran an amateur and (imo) inferior pic so in theory i lost out....... except that I subsequently had a different local paper pay me 50 odd quid for it non exclusive and then a three figure sum from a trade magazine (ditto), deals I couldnt have made if i'd sold the copyright for 20 notes out of desperation to be published)



(edit, in answer to a pm - Its a burst on a high presure water main, and was jetting higher than the houses, and yes I was stupidly close when i took that - though I had a hard hat on - for some reason all the other togs on the scene thought it was a good idea to stay out of the way of falling bits of hardcore )

 

[BrandonDouglas]

sounds like you've gotta have your wits about you before you go handing out copyright !

I'm not really at the stage where I would be selling my photography, purely because most companies are unlikely to want to pay a teenager or will try and take the peas thinking I'm un-aware of a fair price.

But anyway, after reading this I'm now aware of what to look out for if I do end up selling my images good luck with making some money off your pic !

 

[Byker28i]

Just out of interest, what would a good rate for that be.
I'd have been inclined to have taken the money, then reshot it. It'll always be slightly different.

 

[desantnik]

Unless you had grand plans for the image, I'd have taken the hundred quid.

Not trying to be rude, but its hardly an exclusive and jaw dropping image.

I know such images are the bread and butter for people in the postcard and regional calendar business, but even then, can it be worth more than 100 quid?

As others have said - sell that one, the other 6 frames that you shot that are slightly different whilst lining that one up, you've still got those... or you could reshoot... and presumably a business plan that will lead you to being a millionaire ;-)

All that aside, just personally, I'd have taken the 100 quid. No questions.

 

[cw318is]

Not sure which way I'd go with this one, although its a nice image its just a mono of some boats in some mud with the tide out, not a unique scene and not one of those once in lifetime captures so could easily be repeated. I think personally I would have taken the £100 for that shot and retained a slight variation to sell as prints.