use of Manual Mode

DiddyDave said:
But a few test shots and exp comp will sort most of those out anyway - it's only when the sodding light keeps changing within seconds that an auto setting works best. Prior to that then yes manual, but only when YOU rather than the camera has figured out the exp comp - if indeed any is needed
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I agree 100% with the above.. I dont agree a light meter will do the trick.. I dont even believe it would be of any use..(in every situation!) hence why Manual ONLY with a meter is wrong IMHO.

Sorry I get excited when a meaty subject comes along :)
 
KIPAX said:
I agree 100% with the above.. I dont agree a light meter will do the trick.. I dont even believe it would be of any use.. hence why Manual ONLY with a meter is wrong IMHO.

Sorry I get excited when a meaty subject comes along :)
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So are we agreeing on something then??? :D

In summation...

Trust your camera but know when it'll be wrong

Use an external meter when that's useful too, but know how to compensate

Use Manual mode at all times when all other modes aren't quite right

Sounds a bit like - experience matters most :)

DD
 
DiddyDave said:
So are we agreeing on something then??? :D

In summation...

Trust your camera but know when it'll be wrong

Use an external meter when that's useful too, but know how to compensate

Use Manual mode at all times when all other modes aren't quite right

Sounds a bit like - experience matters most :)

DD
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We are now you changed from ONLY to "when useful" absoloutly 100% same page :)
 
KIPAX said:
Where the heck will we find a photographer for the big day :)
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Better make it a looooooooooooooooooooooong engagement then while we discuss that one

Opening thoughts... Nikon :) or one of those inferior makes :shrug:

Now there's another 'meaty' one for you :D

DD
 
DiddyDave said:
So great for weddings in a church, reception, home, any venue where the lighting is relatively uniform - but for a 'reportage' style of shooting outside when within seconds you can go from whispy clouds to solid clouds to clear blue skies & sun
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That's when M shines for me :shrug: haven't used AV in them situations and I mainly get what I want, the only times I lose a shot is when I'm waiting for my buffer to empty :bang:

I have tried AV and I don't think it could keep up with my M keeper rates.

Steve
 
DiddyDave said:
The 'knowledge' is the key - knowing when each is best and how & when to compensate

Try shooting while zooming in & out on a bridal couple on auto to see how crap your fab camera really is ;)

DD
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err...I don't shoot on auto... if you judge the exposure properly on manual then the zoom-ratio has no bearing on matters...
 
I'm definitely no expert - have had my DSLR for about 18 months and only get to use it at weekends.

Started using Auto and was terribly disappointed - moved to Av and it was better but I still got very frustrated with the amount of shots I had to bin.

Then I remembered many years ago I had an AE-1 and started wondering how on earth I took decent shots with that - must have been manual - and at that time I didn't really understand the relationship between Aperture, shutter speed etc (obviously ISO was set by the film I just happened to buy - usually 200 or 400 - I had to guess what the weather (lighting) conditions were likely to be!

So for the last 6 months or so I have been using manual almost exclusively and I am getting much better results.

I shoot mainly wildlife and aircraft.

I guess there are some situations were Av or Tv etc would be better but I guess I still have more to learn to know when to use these.

For now I'm staying with Manual :)
 
Ken Rockwell knows his stuff, but often expresses himself poorly (I get the feeling sometimes deliberately).

I think what he means by "manual" is using a hand held meter, selecting the appropriate settings, and adjusting the controls accordingly. And for sure nobody does that these days.

In that sense, if what you do in Manual is just twiddle the controls until the viewfinder scale is zeroed, then that is hardly "manual" exposure setting according to Ken's definition and you might just as well let the camera do it for you.

By the same token, you could argue that using Av or Tv with exposure compensation applied is more "manual" than Manual.

Maybe the Manual setting should be renamed 'Set and Lock' mode which is actually what it is. And surely Ken uses that from time to time.

Doesn't he? :shrug:
 
HoppyUK said:
In that sense, if what you do in Manual is just twiddle the controls until the viewfinder scale is zeroed, then that is hardly "manual" exposure setting according to Ken's definition and you might just as well let the camera do it for you.
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Depends on what your pointing at when you do the twiddling.. thats the important bit..

If he says manual mode then i dont think its the readers fault thinking he means manual mode.. much the same way as I mean blue when I say the sky is blue... We can only read his writing.. not his mind :)
 
KIPAX said:
Depends on what your pointing at when you do the twiddling.. thats the important bit..
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[ken mode]
If that is the important bit, then you can do the same thing in Av/Tv and use the AEL button. Which is not Manual.
[/ken mode]

If he says manual mode then i dont think its the readers fault thinking he means manual mode.. much the same way as I mean blue when I say the sky is blue... We can only read his writing.. not his mind :)
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But he makes more sense if you can ;)
 
As you have gathered Ken Rockwell is a somewhat contoversal character.
Should you shoot in manual, well yes and no. It's a great way to learn about exposure, but theres no good reason why you shouldn't use any of the modes on your camera.
I switch between manual, apeture priority, shutter prority and program, depending on what I'm shooting.
 
It's strange how some people think that they can't do without the auto. modes. Not too many years ago, manual was the only mode available and people managed just fine with it.

I think the only way to learn and actually understand what is happening is to use manual.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
It's strange how some people think that they can't do without the auto. modes. Not too many years ago, manual was the only mode available and people managed just fine with it.

I think the only way to learn and actually understand what is happening is to use manual.


Steve.
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Yes how do we manage without the clamp to hold the head still, and that new fangled flash powder, not for me, a five minute exposure is all you need.
We also managed without cars, planes and the internet (yes really!) but things have changed.
Welcome to the twenty first century, cameras now have "auto" why the fear of it? it's a tool like anything else.
 
swanseamale47 said:
cameras now have "auto" why the fear of it? it's a tool like anything else.
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When everyone is talking about auto mode here, are you referring to the green symbol on the camera mode dial ? just that as far as i know pro DSLR,s don't have an auto mode, unless i've missed it :lol: this thread has really got me thinking though, as a while back when i first started i used manual quite a lot, then when i read threads when everyone talked about how good aperture mode was i went onto that, i always felt i got my best shots in manual though, one of the reasons being i suffer from camera shake quite a bit so was able to control the shutter speed better and nail the shot, i guess at the end of the day it's what works for you personally (as in my case) i'm definately going to have a go shooting in manual again, as it's been a while since i have, thanks to everyone for the info (apart fron Ken :lol:) it's given me food for thought.
 
TG. said:
are you referring to the green symbol on the camera mode dial ?
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Yes, the settings he refers to are specifically in relation to the settings dial on the D40 (green camera icom. M, P etc).

There is a full auto on the D40 but as of yet I havent tried it!
 
gavinb said:
Yes, the settings he refers to are specifically in relation to the settings dial on the D40 (green camera icom. M, P etc)
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Sorry but i'm not sure that is correct, as the people on here mentioning auto mode are using pro DSLR,s (as far as i know that is) the D40 isn't a pro DSLR but more entry level therefore has the green auto symbol on the dial :)
 
HoppyUK said:
I think what he means by "manual" is using a hand held meter, selecting the appropriate settings, and adjusting the controls accordingly. And for sure nobody does that these days.
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Wrong again Hoppy! :D

I do.

It's the best way of metering for a window lit bridal portrait. Mark Cleghorn goes to great lengths to explain it much better than I could!

It's what DD says about the difference between a reflected light reading and an incident light reading. Using an incident meter reading is more accurate in certain circumstances. It's staying in my bag!
 
TG. said:
just that as far as i know pro DSLR,s don't have an auto mode, unless i've missed it
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Are you suggesting 'Pro' spec cameras don't have auto modes? As in Aperture or Shutter Priority, or 1 or 2 fully program auto modes? :thinking:

As if you are you couldn't be wider from the truth - all Pro cameras have a full range of auto modes - and most Pros will use any of them as needed just as much if not more so than Manual

:)

DD
 
AliB said:
Wrong again Hoppy! :D

I do.

It's the best way of metering for a window lit bridal portrait. Mark Cleghorn goes to great lengths to explain it much better than I could!

It's what DD says about the difference between a reflected light reading and an incident light reading. Using an incident meter reading is more accurate in certain circumstances. It's staying in my bag!
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WOW - how did I miss Hoppy's (pretty daft tbh ;)) comment there!!!

Nicely spotted & answered AliB

:thumbs:

DD
 
A bit late to join in on this but I have found myself using manual more and more recently.

Especially when shooting horseriding or rugby on bright days. I just found the exposure was a bit hit and miss, getting skewed by different colour horses or rugby kit and light / dark backgrounds. As long as the light is pretty constant I would shoot manual chimping to get the OK exposure. Then stick with those settings chimping occasionally to check the exposure / histogram and adjust exposure accordingly when necessary.

I certainly don't chimp every shot. If I need to because of changing light conditions I'll fall back to Av or Tv as required and shoot RAW and sort out exposure in later.
 
DiddyDave said:
and most Pros will use any of them as needed just as much if not more so than Manual
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But that's implying most pros know what they are doing :lol:

I know one or two that haven't got a clue and rely on auto modes to help get them through.
 
DiddyDave said:
Are you suggesting 'Pro' spec cameras don't have auto modes? As in Aperture or Shutter Priority, or 1 or 2 fully program auto modes? :thinking:

As if you are you couldn't be wider from the truth - all Pro cameras have a full range of auto modes - and most Pros will use any of them as needed just as much if not more so than Manual

:)

DD
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Sorry DD i should have been more specific, i was referring to the mode dial with things such as the green auto mode, landscape, portrait, etc, etc, as far as i'm aware pro cameras don't have these unless Canon use them, DD could you be more specific in what type of auto modes you refer too, as i would hate to be missing out on something :D
 
TG. said:
Sorry but i'm not sure that is correct, as the people on here mentioning auto mode are using pro DSLR,s (as far as i know that is) the D40 isn't a pro DSLR but more entry level therefore has the green auto symbol on the dial :)
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But the original post about the info supplied from the works of Ken is specific to these settings on 'the dial' as it is the section of the application covering the modes of this dial
 
PerfectSpeed said:
But that's implying most pros know what they are doing :lol:

I know one or two that haven't got a clue and rely on auto modes to help get them through.
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I know one highly sucessful New York photographer who has won awards and shoots with two lenses and a 5D on P!

She gets stunning pics, wins awards and teaches composition all over the world. She's also won awards for album design. Perhaps it's her eye she gets paid for rather than knowing the ins and outs of a box of electronics.

End result and all that?
 
We've had this debate before and it still appears that there are people who shoot manual but just pop the light meter in the view finder in the middle. That's no different to shooting "P".

I tend to shoot about 70% on Av (A to the darksiders), 25% M and 5% Tv (S). It depends on what you are shooting and what you want to achieve.

When I shoot on Av, do I trust the camera? No. For the vast majority of images, there is some compensation in there to account for the meter in the camera trying to make the subject 18% grey. Still don't see why Av/Tv with compensation offers you any less control with the right amount of compensation.

The time I normally shoot M is for birds in flight where they may be in front of sky or ground, needing different ex. comp. depending on the background...
 
Do you guys consider Aperture priority an "auto" mode or have i misread it. As I said before there's no difference with Aperture priority + exposure compensation and manual. The exposure compensation adjusts shutter speed just as you would with manual.

It's all about the metering and understanding how the camera makes adjustments to either reduce high lights or light up dark areas.

Manual or AV makes no difference as I see it.

Having said that I nearly always use manual with flash - I find it easier that way.
 
AliB said:
I know one highly sucessful New York photographer who has won awards and shoots with two lenses and a 5D on P!

She gets stunning pics, wins awards and teaches composition all over the world. She's also won awards for album design. Perhaps it's her eye she gets paid for rather than knowing the ins and outs of a box of electronics.

End result and all that?
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Scott Kelby and Joe McNally both shoot AV 95% of the time as far as I recall.

Joe just understands the camera's logic far better than most :)
 
TG. said:
Sorry DD i should have been more specific, i was referring to the mode dial with things such as the green auto mode, landscape, portrait, etc, etc, as far as i'm aware pro cameras don't have these unless Canon use them, DD could you be more specific in what type of auto modes you refer too, as i would hate to be missing out on something :D
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O I C - auto modes by pictures :)

No we don't have those on Pro spec cameras - we have those setting values in our heads :D

i.e. Portrait - often wide open or close to such, don't give a damn about shutter speed so long as it's fast enough to avoid camera shake

Landscape - often f8-f11 for greatest DoF, but not using f22 unless we have to (as f22 is often pointless to DoF & causes accuity issues reducing sharpness); shutter speeds this time are used for effect to either capture everything dead, or perhaps to let something (water, flowers or trees) register with blur. Additional tools to control shutter speed here are ISO & filters

I'm not sure any camera has enough auto pictures to choose from for all the possible combinations, and if they had & you knew what to choose you'd be good enough to not need them anyway :D

DD
 
ryanyboy said:
Do you guys consider Aperture priority an "auto" mode or have i misread it. As I said before there's no difference with Aperture priority + exposure compensation and manual. The exposure compensation adjusts shutter speed just as you would with manual.

It's all about the metering and understanding how the camera makes adjustments to either reduce high lights or light up dark areas.

Manual or AV makes no difference as I see it.

Having said that I nearly always use manual with flash - I find it easier that way.
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That's nearly right :)

In any given subject (let's take a couple in light clothing walking in the Sun with shaded trees as a background), then shooting in Manual and dialling in the compensation is the same as shooting in auto and dialling in the compensation - until you start to zoom in, and that's when the auto modes can come a cropper as the exposure on this subject will change depending on the amount of dark background the camera is metering for

At such times Manual is the better way, but to make it easier too often using an incident light meter from their position, or yours if you're in the same light, is easier still as you don't have any checking your blinkies to do and test-shooting to set the compensation

DD
 
ryanyboy said:
Do you guys consider Aperture priority an "auto" mode or have i misread it
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Personally i don't neither do i consider shutter priority as an auto mode, this was the point i was trying to make, but it seems to have been lost in translation :D
 
TG. said:
Personally i don't neither do i consider shutter priority as an auto mode, this was the point i was trying to make, but it seems to have been lost in translation :D
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Interesting - I don't know how letting the camera determine exposure cannot be considered an 'auto' mode, whether it's just picking the aperture, the shutter speed or both - surely they are all auto :thinking:

You have Manual focus & Auto-focus don't you? The auto there is only doing one job - I can't see a difference :shrug:

DD
 
manual is good for setting discrete settings regardless of what the metering sees
if you do a pano you may use this to get all elements shot relative to each other...
it looks realistic then

i use manual to override the integrated settings of P/A/S

my camera then gives me a wider range of shutter speeds...normall 1 sec is the lowest
there is no gain in aperture as all are available

when using 35mm in the 'old days' on my ELW2 nikons i invariably used aperture priority
 
AliB said:
Wrong again Hoppy! :D

I do.

It's the best way of metering for a window lit bridal portrait. Mark Cleghorn goes to great lengths to explain it much better than I could!

It's what DD says about the difference between a reflected light reading and an incident light reading. Using an incident meter reading is more accurate in certain circumstances. It's staying in my bag!
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Barbie, just call me Ken! :D

I quite often take an incident meter reading. Never use a hand-held except for flash though.

But taking a reading off the palm of your hand won't impress clients as much as all that clever technical looking stuff with a little domey thing ;)
 
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