Used Car Help - How Many Miles Is Too Many?

[andya700]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Although I stopped reading when it descended into the stereotypical TP willy-waving.

For anyone who still remembers what the thread was about, I’m going to give the car a miss and go for a newer version with a few less miles

Did you read post #29 where I suggested the same model with lower miles which was £2K cheaper.
Why don't you buy an older car with 200K miles which is £12K?

 

[gman]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Although I stopped reading when it descended into the stereotypical TP willy-waving.

For anyone who still remembers what the thread was about, I’m going to give the car a miss and go for a newer version with a few less miles

If you are set on getting a 3 series (or any BMW) and it were me I would be looking at:

• Check the MOT history of the car using the Gov's online service before even going to see it. Although limited it still helps to give a rough idea of the car's health and also how it's been treated, i.e. if it's got constant advisories or failures for tyres being close to bald then it may be an indication of someone who doesn't like to spend any money on their car or pays it very much attention. Not definite though, have to make your own judgement call.
• X-Drive - it's rear wheel biased and an excellent AWD system not only in snow but also in the wet. I was driving around in that deep Feb snow on ordinary tyres with no problems and I even towed out a crashed car which had ditched! It will obviously not help with braking though but stick all-season tyres on and your good for this.
• 8-Speed Auto - it works so good there's no point going manual. Plus it's semi-auto so you can go manual anyway.
• Full Main Dealer Service History - other than for resale value it's usually not worth the paper it's printed on despite the industry holding it in such high regard. A good independent service history would impress me more. Main Dealers are notorious for not doing it properly, if not at all.
• Service Schedule - I would ignore the official one and do the oil and filter changes every year / 10,000 miles. The BMW recommended are far too far apart for my liking - especially if going diesel.

I'm also not sure about some of the prices you've mentioned. My 2015 330D X-Drive M-Sport with 35k on the clock when I handed it back was being offered to me for £17k. I had a look on autotrader and there's lots of clean 320s going for less than £10K with less than 100K miles.

Would you consider a 330D instead? I was getting mid 50's mpg on long trips (even into the 60's when in eco mode and grandpa driving) and the effortless performance kept fatigue at bay and made the journeys very enjoyable.

 

[danny_bhoy]

Did you read post #29 where I suggested the same model with lower miles which was £2K cheaper.
Why don't you buy an older car with 200K miles which is £12K?

Sorry Andy, the post wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular, just a commentary on how things tend to go round these parts

I've just gone back and had a look at your link.....it'd pretty much exactly what I'm after if only it had four doors.......who'd have kids eh!

 

[danny_bhoy]

If you are set on getting a 3 series (or any BMW) and it were me I would be looking at:

• Check the MOT history of the car using the Gov's online service before even going to see it. Although limited it still helps to give a rough idea of the car's health and also how it's been treated, i.e. if it's got constant advisories or failures for tyres being close to bald then it may be an indication of someone who doesn't like to spend any money on their car or pays it very much attention. Not definite though, have to make your own judgement call.
• X-Drive - it's rear wheel biased and an excellent AWD system not only in snow but also in the wet. I was driving around in that deep Feb snow on ordinary tyres with no problems and I even towed out a crashed car which had ditched! It will obviously not help with braking though but stick all-season tyres on and your good for this.
• 8-Speed Auto - it works so good there's no point going manual. Plus it's semi-auto so you can go manual anyway.
• Full Main Dealer Service History - other than for resale value it's usually not worth the paper it's printed on despite the industry holding it in such high regard. A good independent service history would impress me more. Main Dealers are notorious for not doing it properly, if not at all.
• Service Schedule - I would ignore the official one and do the oil and filter changes every year / 10,000 miles. The BMW recommended are far too far apart for my liking - especially if going diesel.

I'm also not sure about some of the prices you've mentioned. My 2015 330D X-Drive M-Sport with 35k on the clock when I handed it back was being offered to me for £17k. I had a look on autotrader and there's lots of clean 320s going for less than £10K with less than 100K miles.

Would you consider a 330D instead? I was getting mid 50's mpg on long trips (even into the 60's when in eco mode and grandpa driving) and the effortless performance kept fatigue at bay and made the journeys very enjoyable.

Thanks for that checklist Graham, immensely useful stuff for an inexperienced car buyer like me. I'll keep all of that in mind when the time comes to get the wallet out.

I hadn't even considered the 330D and just assumed the the X-drive would push it out of my price range. It's come in very handy when I'm trudging around Northumberland in the snow! I'm being really picky when it comes to the looks (manly as I've driven round in a family-wagon for the last 5-6 years) so it kinda makes my search a bit harder/narrower. Love the look of the MSport alloys and the interior trim looks a bit nicer as well.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

The clutch is around £350, and the LUK DMF around £740, plus as you say around £400 to fit.
You can add on another £400 to fit the suspension, so with the £700 for the parts, we are now up to around £2.2K for suspension and clutch.
If the timing chain needs replacing (it was still an issue on 2011-13 cars) then it will cost £1.2K from a main dealer or £800 from an indy, because the chain is located at the flywheel end of the engine.
I would say a major service includes fluids - engine/gearbox/coolant/brake-clutch hydraulic, then filters and possibly glow plugs at that mileage.

DMF is certainly not 740
https://www.carsparesltd.com/bmw-3_...ch-friction-cl-clutch-parts-flywheels-clpt-cl
ebay has one at 457 with 5 year warranty. I would be crazy to buy same at the far higher price.
Buy an auto and you don't need the stupid clutch. Win - win.

We can say or think anything we like but in real life all dealerships clearly define and list detailing what is included in full service is available on their website. It very certainly excludes gearbox oil, brake / clutch flush, 4x4 oil, any of that. It is engine oil, filters, lubricate door hinges, perform basic checks, maybe wash the car if you are lucky. It is all listed.
That's pretty much why many auto gearboxes are run into the ground after 80-90k - they have never had oil change. Any dual clutch ones require flush every 40k and you have to ask for it specifically.

 

[andya700]

Sorry Andy, the post wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular, just a commentary on how things tend to go round these parts

I've just gone back and had a look at your link.....it'd pretty much exactly what I'm after if only it had four doors.......who'd have kids eh!

Have you thought about an MSport estate then, because they seem to be even better value.

 

[nilagin]

DMF is certainly not 740
https://www.carsparesltd.com/bmw-3_...ch-friction-cl-clutch-parts-flywheels-clpt-cl
ebay has one at 457 with 5 year warranty. I would be crazy to buy same at the far higher price.
Buy an auto and you don't need the stupid clutch. Win - win.

We can say or think anything we like but in real life all dealerships clearly define and list detailing what is included in full service is available on their website. It very certainly excludes gearbox oil, brake / clutch flush, 4x4 oil, any of that. It is engine oil, filters, lubricate door hinges, perform basic checks, maybe wash the car if you are lucky. It is all listed.
That's pretty much why many auto gearboxes are run into the ground after 80-90k - they have never had oil change. Any dual clutch ones require flush every 40k and you have to ask for it specifically.

Services vary depending on mileage and age of vehicle and prices vary accordingly. If they don't you have bought the wrong make of car.

 

[danny_bhoy]

Have you thought about an MSport estate then, because they seem to be even better value.

I'd happily have the estate, drove one for work a few years back and absolutely loved it. The Mrs is set on the saloon though. Just going to have to be patient and see what turns up........even been considering the 5 series as there doesn't seem to be much difference in price and, from what I can see, it's more car for your money with most having done considerably less miles.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Services vary depending on mileage and age of vehicle and prices vary accordingly. If they don't you have bought the wrong make of car.

I would never use dealership so thats irrelevant. I go through a list and personally make sure things get done when they need to.

 

[nilagin]

I would never use dealership so thats irrelevant. I go through a list and personally make sure things get done when they need to.

It isn't irrelevant because no matter where you are having your car serviced, the garage should still be carrying out the required work for the cars age and mileage. If they aren't and you are having to request certain work to be carried out, perhaps you ought to be using a garage fully aware of what work is required.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

It isn't irrelevant because no matter where you are having your car serviced, the garage should still be carrying out the required work for the cars age and mileage. If they aren't and you are having to request certain work to be carried out, perhaps you ought to be using a garage fully aware of what work is required.

I buy the bits and tell them exactly what to do. That's all the things I could not do my self. Why would I pay them to change air filter or pollen filter if that's just 2min job each for example?
My gearboxes are serviced on time, engine is on correct oil spec, and so on. You wouldn't find this on many 59 plate cars.

 

[nilagin]

I buy the bits and tell them exactly what to do. That's all the things I could not do my self. Why would I pay them to change air filter or pollen filter if that's just 2min job each for example?
My gearboxes are serviced on time, engine is on correct oil spec, and so on. You wouldn't find this on many 59 plate cars.

Your original statement was that you had to request gearbox oil changes as they weren't included in service schedules, but in actual fact all you are doing is requesting some work to be carried out that would be difficult to have carried out yourself. Not exactly the same thing is it.

 

[gman]

I'd happily have the estate, drove one for work a few years back and absolutely loved it. The Mrs is set on the saloon though. Just going to have to be patient and see what turns up........even been considering the 5 series as there doesn't seem to be much difference in price and, from what I can see, it's more car for your money with most having done considerably less miles.

I had a brand new 530d as a courtesy car for a day whilst my 330d was being serviced and it is definitely a step up inside, most notably is that more is higher up in your eye level whereas the 3 series has more buttons in fiddly places to reach, including the start button! Also it all feels more integrated especially the navigation screen rather than the stuck on afterthought in the 3 series.

Not quite as sharp with the handling when compared to the 3 series but the 5 series feels more grown up and more premium.

Forgot to mention, if set on a saloon then try and get one with folding seats (it's an optional extra when new) because I always found myself getting annoyed with the boot size. May sound trivial but it can make life a lot easier, for example when I bought a 50" TV I had to squeeze, and I mean squeeeeeeze, it in the back seats and open a window otherwise the door wouldn't close lol

If the seats had folded it would have slid into the boot no problem at aall. Same with something as simple as a garden rake, it wouldn't fit in the boot.

 

[gerry s]

I’ve had a 2013 520d Msport touring for just under 3 years and they really are worth considering, loads of room, pretty good performance, well laid out and good mpg for the size. Thought I might have regretted not getting a 3 but not at all, I have kept up the dealer service though and don’t find it that expensive. They do price match on 5 years and older.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Your original statement was that you had to request gearbox oil changes as they weren't included in service schedules, but in actual fact all you are doing is requesting some work to be carried out that would be difficult to have carried out yourself. Not exactly the same thing is it.

Right. Let me quote from the mouth of the horse or VW in this case. All my cars are VW now so that's all I'm really familiar with. BMW could be different so you should check their version. I know just how much ZF6 gearbox service kit costs so it would be at least double that of VW DSG service.

Major service http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/fixed-price-servicing

It includes: Oil & filter change. Replace pollen filter. Replace air filter. Spark plugs (petrol engine) or fuel filter (diesel engine). Remove wheels and check brakes. Check/adjust tension of all drive belts. Check gearbox oil level. Check final drive oil level. Vehicle inspection and report to include all lights, instruments, bodywork, glass, locks, battery, coolant levels, drive belts, braking system, steering, hoses, drive shafts, suspension and exhaust system. Full vehicle road test. Diagnostic check including report. Re-set service interval display. Volkswagen stamp in service book.
Exclusions: Over 2.0 litre engines, e-up!, e-Golf, Golf GTE, Passat GTE, Phaeton and Touareg V10 engines.

It says check gearbox oil level. NOT change. With a DSG you have absolutely no chance of doing that by the way. It is all out, new in. Just like it doesn't include a new drive belt...

Which brings us to this http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/...nd-why/dsg-transmission-oil-and-filter-change
I have to say it is actually a reasonable value, but most certainly not a part of major service.

P.S. Most dealerships would not suggest DSG oil change at all. You have to ask for it. Previous passat had a box ticked with a different pen in the service book. At 90K oil not changed once, but serviced only at VW. It was just about OK after the change so I really got away without a very nasty bill.
I phoned VW UK helpline to query this and was told it is not their policy or whatever to offer the service unless specifically queried. I am very surprised but oh well it looks like this is what they do and a lot worse with their engine software...

 

[den]

At that mileage quite a few parts would have already been changed , i would put money on the clutch and DMF having already been replaced ,just done mine at 115k LUK kit including clutch kit and flywheel £330 plus £200 to fit..parts are not as expensive as people are led to believe .I had a abs ring go and it affected the sensors kicking in the dtc so rather than change the ring i just changed the complete driveshaft only £60 new and a doddle to fit ...A new sensor £10..I am lucky as i can service my own vehicles and i use opie oils for the oil service kit 5-30w they sell them in 6 litres , air filter fuel filter and oil filter can all be purchased at a decent price , i also change the oil every 6000 miles or 6 months what ever comes first and mine still gives me 50mpg just as i was getting when the car was new ...If the car the OP is looking at as a full service history and mainly motorway miles and the price was right i wouldn't think twice about the mileage..

 

[decigallen]

I'm sure some will disagree, but my brother (car salesman) always advised me to buy a newer, higher mileage (within reason) car with FSH rather than an older low-miler at the same price as I don't do that many miles year on year. I'm sure the inverse makes sense if you do a lot of miles.

 

[gman]

I guess this is the rub:

Newer Car / High Miles: may need repairs due to wear and tear, interior (especially seats) will probably be more worn or less supportive
Older Car / Low Miles: may need repairs due to natural deterioration (seals, bushes etc) or corrosion

But

New Car / High Miles: You get the latest tech, especially good when it comes to phone connectivity etc, and also the latest safety features. Plus newer cars are generally more economical. Nobody knows the mileage of your car, all they see is that it's a newer car. Main Dealers, who usually provide better/longer warranties for used cars, tend not to stock higher mileage cars though.
Older Car / Low Miles: Resale value will good due to low miles, although if it's generations behind then it's going to be worth less. Generally less complicated (in particular electrics and software) and common faults will usually have known fixes. Usually have more availability for less expensive aftermarket parts.


I don't mind going slightly older if the car ticks all the boxes, is a fair price and the mileage is low but I don't have a problem with higher mileage either as I have access to a workshop etc. But the mileage would depend on the car, for example I was looking at older Porsche Cayennes but the feedback I was getting was that at around 100k some major repairs would be needed (thousands of pounds) and I noticed that the majority of the first generation for sale were all around this mileage - the owners were either savvy to this or had already got the problem and didn't want to waste the money repairing it due to age/mileage.

If you have a good indy garage on hand it can be worth checking out the auctions as you can save thousands here. Make sure the engine is good and if possible the transmission because most other things can normally be sorted at a reasonable cost. Alternatively, there's the police auctions which you can subscribe to for a couple of pounds.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I guess this is the rub:

Newer Car / High Miles: may need repairs due to wear and tear, interior (especially seats) will probably be more worn or less supportive
Older Car / Low Miles: may need repairs due to natural deterioration (seals, bushes etc) or corrosion

Not necessarily true regarding interior wear and tear. It really depends on the former owner, their weight!!!, waist length, cleanliness, and aftercare... To illustrate passat 1 was bought at 90k and had considerable seat wear - front due to fat and messy driver, rear - KIDS! Passat 2 - far higher mileage and looked like brand new from factory inside. It looks less impressive after 2 years of me, but still better than Passat 1.

Corrosion and rubber degradation is almost given with age, but then again a car in Spain vs same car in northern Scotland will fare very differently over the years.