Used equipment prices

[boyfalldown]

So it's OK to cash-in and make a profit, as long as you spend the profit on photographic gear?

eh? don't think thats what was said. Why is it not OK to sell gear for what its worth?? I don't mean stitching people up here but just the normal bought it, used it, finished with it, selling it type stuff?

 

[dalex_257]

That's assuming that the increase in price in lenses is the same proportionally to everything else.

Using the £10,000 example - 20 years ago it would buy a hell of a lot of house but nowardays it would get nothing whereas you claim that it would get a lot more nowardays

Well your example is more extreme illustration of my point

Comparing to houses, camera equipment price rises are nothing really

From a practical prospective, a year ago I'd pay 60 pounds a month for my electricity bill (average across a year). Today I'm paying 94 - that's 50 % more. Assuming to MJ Stebbings example if I sell my lens for 400 pounds vs 250 I got it for a year ago and get so called profit of 150 - it would not buy extra payment for my bills. A year ago 250 would have paid for roughly a bit over 4 month of utility bills - today 400 pounds will pay around the same (4.25 month of electricity bills) so it's close enough (assuming other price differences as well I won't gain anything extra by selling it comparing to a year ago so there is no profit). The example is close to reality but is still slightly optimistic - my electricity bill has actually doubled though consumption rose only about 3% comparing to the last year

 

[dalex_257]

Well your example is more extreme illustration of my point

To get a bit more illustrative example - 20 years ago Nikon 45mm F/2.8 pancake lens cost peanuts (50-70 pounds according to the web?) and now you would need to shell out around 250 to get it. So using MJ Stebbings argument that would be a triple profit - but would it really...

 

[dalex_257]

Using the £10,000 example - 20 years ago it would buy a hell of a lot of house but nowardays it would get nothing whereas you claim that it would get a lot more nowardays

I didn't claim that at all - quite the opposite ("nowhere near close" can approach the limit both ways from top as well as the bottom )

I'll correct the phrase the right way though - thanks for pointing out

 

[springtide]

So we know prices go up, prices come down. But mostly they've been coming down.

I see statements like 'spread the karma' when people talk about selling for the same price they paid for it, but less than market value.

I was wondering whether people feel 'karma' works for the buyer and seller?

i.e.
1) When prices go up, the seller should sell for no more than he purchased it for, so less than market value.
2) When prices go down, 'buyers' expect to have the same 'karma' and buy for more than current market value.

Or are we only talking about only the sellers 'spreading the karma', meaning they break even when prices go up (which is not very often), and make big losses when prices fall.

Or as some people would say; a loose, loose situation.

 

[mazdaman]

Used prices are relevant to the state of the marketplace at a given point as an example in September 2008 I bought a Sigma 70-200 F2.8 ex dg hsm non macro lens from Ebay for £285 it was a bargin for sure. I then followed that purchase with a Sigma 100-300 F4 for £385 again from Ebay. The 100-300 is and was mint when I bought it If I wanted to sell it now guess I could get £500-600 but I would lose a great lens.

I have had thoughts of buying a 24-105 Canon L this year so to gauge how much I would look to pay used I visited Camera Price Buster for the first time in over 6 months and was shocked how much prices have risen during the past year. While I fully understand £ vs every other currency affect on prices I can now see why used prices are on the rise relative to new prices.

Check the best/worse price on any lens/body on the site to see the impact of the weak £ has had on pricing. I have shown the Sigma 100-300 f4 price as an example below.

http://camerapricebuster.co.uk/prod222.html

As to the debate as to cashing in and making profit on selling equipment I guess everyone to their own on how they feel about making a profit

 

[GarynLea]

I'm selling a lens here and will gladly sell it for a tenner as long as someone is willing to sell me their 50d for a nice crisp £10 note spread the karma

 

[bindex]

I really don't see an issue in selling unwanted equipment at whatever the current market value is. The price I paid for it is totally irrelevant.

 

[pearce_jj]

google "free market economy"....

 

[TriggerHappy]

Lets turn this around. If you purchased a lens new for £500 and at that time the same lens was worth £300 on the secondhand market (40% less than its new value) would you then expect to still be able to sell the same lens at the same price should the price of the same lens new fall to £400. Or more to the point, would you be willing to pay the same price for secondhand lens when the price of the same lens new has fallen so significantly?
No, you would expect that the price of secondhand lenses to track, fairly closely, trends in the new market. In which case a 40% reduction in price would leave a secondhand value of £240
A secondhand lens simply wouldn't sell if it kept the same value when the new price had fallen because the consumer would perceive inequity.

I hope I've explained that clearly enough to be followed!

 

[StewartR]

I hope I've explained that clearly enough to be followed!

Unfortunately, some people here seem to be simply incapable of grasping this simple point, no matter how clearly you explain it. :bang:

 

[MJ Stebbings]

I think that it is you who does not understand it really...

Using your example 12 month ago £250 would buy you that lens or say pay your utilities bill for the month or pay for a 2 week worth food shopping (for example). Now, today, the £400 will get you the same lens, pay your utility bills for the month or pay for a 2 week worth food shopping. So if I bought my lens 12 month ago for £250 and sell it today for £400 - what exactly am I gaining in terms of value????? It would be a profit if I go 12 months back in time and can use it then at those values/prices but not now.

What you are confusing again is the value of things and its monetary expression - value changes somewhat but has no relation to money (it is always defined by demand/market, includes depreciation if used etc). Monetary expression of the value is different at a different times and in different countries - is it really so difficult to grasp? What you would buy with 10000 pounds 20 years ago is nowhere near equivalent to what you can buy with the same amount today (you could have bought much more for that amount back then) so why you expect the price expression of the value to stay the same over time??

I cant be bothered to argue with you.

 

[danbroad]

google "free market economy"....

Bingo.

Trigger, Stewart - exactly. If people don't like the price, they don't buy. As I said, the only valuation of note is that provided on the day of sale.

It matters not a bean what the price was yesterday, last week, last month - and it doesn't matter what the price will be tomorrow, next week, etc. I've sold lenses on here for slightly less than I probably otherwise could have [but saved on ebay fees and the like, so it's swings and roundabouts]. But I'm not going to sell a £1000 for £500 just because I bought it at a price somewhere inbetween.

All's fair in love and war. If you don't like the idea I'm making a profit - whether inadvertently or by chance - then don't buy from me. I don't buy lenses as an investment, but if they happen to appreciate, then its a 'cash in the attic' moment that helps redress the many, many losses I've made over the years.

 

[MJ Stebbings]

Very true, and i will only buy what i deem good value.
So regardless of the argument, if i post a wanted add saying i'm not willing to pay over inflated prices, what the hell should it matter to anyone else?
If that comment then puts someone off contacting me, then i run that risk.

Who really gives that much of a flying donkey crap?

 

[TriggerHappy]

Very true, and i will only buy what i deem good value.
So regardless of the argument, if i post a wanted add saying i'm not willing to pay over inflated prices, what the hell should it matter to anyone else?
If that comment then puts someone off contacting me, then i run that risk.

Who really gives that much of a flying donkey crap?

Fine, just don't expect any offers!

 

[singlespeed]

Example:
I buy said Minty 70-200F4L for £250 12 months ago. I see the market has risen in value, i'm not after an upgrade but think that if i sell the lens for £350-400 now because i dont really use it, thus making a profit of £100-150.
Dalex 257, how hard is that to understand? I'm sure there is a bit of that going on.

This senario happens for stocks and shares, houses, precious metals and almost anything with a reasonable value. Just because DSLR kit doesn't devalue as fast as most consumer electricals means it fits into the same game plan for some.

If/when you come to sell something will you be complaining about the relatively high second hand value?

 

[danbroad]

Couldn't agree more, MJ - the value of a secondhand lens is that which you're willing to pay. I'm regretting having sold my 300/4 Nikkor now - and I can't buy one now for anything like what I bought it new for last year [let alone sold it for...] - I'll just have to bide my time.

But, I may never get such a good deal again - if so, I'll chalk it down to experience, and live to fight another day. If you're disciplined enough to set a maximum value for your own purchases, so be it - but one has to prepare for both a long wait and subsequent failure using this approach.

 

[MJ Stebbings]

Fine, just don't expect any offers!

I do believe that i recieved people offering me things for less than second hand value when i said that i wasnt willing to pay silly prices for them.....now who's the fool.

I love a good argument Haha!

MY OPINION still stands for me. I have recently picked up so amazing bargins, so obviously i'm not doing something wrong

 

[TriggerHappy]

I do believe that i recieved people offering me things for less than second hand value when i said that i wasnt willing to pay silly prices for them.....now who's the fool.

I love a good argument Haha!

MY OPINION still stands for me. I have recently picked up so amazing bargins, so obviously i'm not doing something wrong

I'm not sure that makes me a fool. It might prove me wrong, but doesn't prove me a fool!

 

[danbroad]

I think we need to differentiate between 'market used value' and good old fashioned 'bargains'.

There'll always be a couple of Nikkor 600/4's in charity shops for a tenner [or similar extreme examples] somewhere in the world, and someone will be lucky enough to stumble upon a bargain outside the usual sales channels. That makes them lucky, but they are the exception, not the rule. Just because one makes a lucky find doesn't mean that everything else is 'unfairly priced'.

I prefer to live my life not entirely reliant on luck. I don't need to win the lottery to make ends meet, and I don't shout 'unfair' when I play the lottery and don't win. I live within my means, and accept that I can't control the economy, the weather, or my mother-in-law.

 

[MJ Stebbings]

What makes you a fool is the tone of your previous post
I on the other hand, am just laughing at how irate people seem to get over these sort of things

Mike

 

[madmitch]

I've been watching ebay prices lately as i'm selling up lock,stock and barrel and cannot believe the prices (today used 17-40 f4 £511.02+£10 postage).

I will post my gear on here at what i consider a reasonable price in todays market, if it doesn't sell here then it's on fleabay. :shrug:

 

[TriggerHappy]

What makes you a fool is the tone of your previous post
I on the other hand, am just laughing at how irate people seem to get over these sort of things

Mike

The tone of my post was never meant as anything other than light hearted banter.
I can't understand why you've degenerated a difference of opinion into insults so I'll now leave this thread safe in the knowledge that when you come to sell on your goods you'll do the honourable thing and offer them at give-away prices regardless of the loss to you.

 

[admirable]

I've been watching ebay prices lately as i'm selling up lock,stock and barrel and cannot believe the prices (today used 17-40 f4 £511.02+£10 postage).

I will post my gear on here at what i consider a reasonable price in todays market, if it doesn't sell here then it's on fleabay. :shrug:

That doesn't sound good, I hope you are not giving up togging or are suffering from ill health or something!

 

[madmitch]

That doesn't sound good, I hope you are not giving up togging or are suffering from ill health or something!

Never felt better, but togging has taken a back seat and there's to much kit sitting idle at the moment.

 

[G2EWS]

Hi All,

Not too sure why folks are getting upset on this thread as it is just a good old fashioned discussion about market economy.

When I buy a lens or camera new or used, I very soon forget what price I paid for it. When the time comes for me to upgrade, because I now understand why a better lens is better, I do not search for my paperwork or the communications I had with someone on here to find what I paid. I simply research what price the product is going for on here and other forums. I will then sell accordingly. My only concern is not to upstage a fellow tog by selling it cheaper than them on this forum.

Did I make money? Did I loose money? Who knows? Who cares? As long as it sold at a price that obviously made me happy and the buyer happy then we hit a win - win situation. Simple!

As to folks buying to sell at a profit, why is that a problem? If you find a good source for a product and can sell it to me at a lower price than I can buy it elsewhere, you become my hero!

I have a very successful business with customers who buy off me at more than I buy unsurprisingly and they are very happy to do so.

Finally the key point about TV's mentioned earlier in this thread that seems to have been missed is that newer technology tends to be lower cost. So as newer TV's come out at a relatively low cost the older ones have got to come down to suit. Watch what happens as the newer breed of 'organic' LCD TV's become more prevalent in the market. The normal LCD TV's will fall dramatically in price. So if you want to sell your LCD TV, best you do that now! Alternatively stick it in the garden so you can watch the sport whilst getting fresh air:

Best regards

Chris