Using a waist level finder

[Fraser Euan White]

I have seen several pictures of people dropping their heads very close to the waist level finders on their cameras; I was always told it was wrong to do this and defeats the advantage of the WLF by allowing the camera to get between the photographer and the subject, and it was always designed to be used 'at waist level'.

How do you use yours?

 

[Asha]

From my experience all the WLF that I've used have built in loupes / magnifiers to enable confirmation of focusing etc.

I'd be surprised that anyone using a WLF wouldn't be found with their head very close unless they've preset focus or are depending on hyperfocal.

 

[john.margetts]

To focus with a WLF, you need to use the built-in magnifier which, in turn, needs to be close to your eye. This is more so with a 35mm camera fitted with a WLF. Once focused, you drop the camera to waist level, compose and shoot.

 

[FishyFish]

Depends on the angle of the shot. If I'm pointing it upwards, holding it close becomes more of a necessity in order to frame the shot correctly. Generally though, I'll hold it close to get focus correct, and then hold it at waist level to get the image. Sometimes I'll take shots at eye level too though.

 

[Fraser Euan White]

To focus with a WLF, you need to use the built-in magnifier which, in turn, needs to be close to your eye. This is more so with a 35mm camera fitted with a WLF. Once focused, you drop the camera to waist level, compose and shoot.

Hi John (and others) This is exactly what I originally thought until I got my first MF camera back in the late 1980's.

My late father (a long time Rolleiflex user) laughed at me when he saw me putting my head next to the viewfinder to focus and said in his soft Scottish accent:

'No, no, no Son - what on earth are you doing!'

I explained to him that I was using the magnifier to focus; he again laughed and proceeded to show me how the magnifier is supposed to be used!

(Went on to waffle how you wouldn't see Mr Heidecke with his head pressed against a viewfinder)

I encourage anyone with a camera that has a WLF to go and get it, sit with it whilst I explain the following:

He told me to put the camera near my belly button and look down into the WLF.

Whilst doing this you can frame/compose the image and rough focus on the ground glass screen all at the same time.

If the aperture was small enough then the rough focus would be good enough

If you required critical focus he told me to flip the magnifier up; which I did.

Looking down on the finder at waist level he told me that the magnifier would only magnify the focusing aid in the centre of the screen - which it did; I now had a nicely magnified view of the split prism only and focusing was a cinch.

He explained putting your head down to the finder only gives you a magnified view of the whole focusing screen - not just the focusing aid; doesn't make focus better, lengthens the time to take the shot and puts the camera between the subject and you.

He did later say the only time to put your head to the focusing hood was to cut out excessive light.

Took some time to get used to (a roll of film) but focusing is so easy this way.

 

[StephenM]

Up to the eye for focusing, and then usually down to waist level - it's easier for me to avoid camera shake this way if hand held. I have used the camera at other heights if the viewpoint matters. When taking portrait orientation with a waist level finder on a non square format and a camera without a rotating back, I've held the camera away from me to enable me to square up the image on the upside down, left to right image.

 

[donut]

I wish my eyesight was good enough to let me focus when holding the box at waist level ,,,,,,,,

 

[Andysnap]

I wish my eyesight was good enough to let me focus when holding the box at waist level ,,,,,,,,

It worries me that you should say this, especially as you drive as a profession

 

[Harlequin565]

I wish my eyesight was good enough to let me focus when holding the box at waist level ,,,,,,,,

This for me. I need three pairs of glasses. One for distance, one for reading, and one for middle distance (monitor distance). For close work, I need glasses off. My eye shape and prescription precludes the use of bifocals or varifocals so I literally need different pairs of glasses (which is a huge pain). On my X-T2, it's glasses off because the EVF is "close" to my eye. With mirrored finders though, I need distance goggles appropriate to the distances involved to subject. I've found I get the best results from getting my face into the WLF to a)see better and b)block sidelight which clouds my view.

The RB67 with the 180mm has been a huge pain to focus correctly. The only way I've been able to get decent results is on a tripod and with my face pressed up to the magnifier. So many wasted shots due to missed focus. I'd agree that infinity focussing with wide angle lenses rarely requires me to focus tune, but when it's critical that a close object be in focus, my eyesight simply isn't good enough to determine that from 2ft away.

tl;dr - my eyes are bad.

 

[donut]

similar to you then . for my close ups its not quite close enough ,,,, and for the distance ones ,,,,,its a bit too close ,,,,,maybe I need some middle focus bins !

 

[Mr Badger]

What about old Yashica TLRs that have a plain, matt Fresnel screen with no central split prism focussing aid? I usually compose the shot using my Yashica TLR at waist level, then put my eye close to the flip up magnifier to fine-tune the focus, then complete the framing at waist level and take the shot.

The important thing with this method, particularly if using a wide aperture, is to make sure you've not inadvertently moved the camera nearer to, or further away from, the subject, otherwise the critical focus point can be missed (such as the eyes of subject in a portrait shot) - not a problem if you're using a tripod though, as it's you that'll be doing the moving, not the camera!

 

[Peter B]

Hi John (and others) This is exactly what I originally thought until I got my first MF camera back in the late 1980's.

My late father (a long time Rolleiflex user) laughed at me when he saw me putting my head next to the viewfinder to focus and said in his soft Scottish accent:

'No, no, no Son - what on earth are you doing!'

I explained to him that I was using the magnifier to focus; he again laughed and proceeded to show me how the magnifier is supposed to be used!

(Went on to waffle how you wouldn't see Mr Heidecke with his head pressed against a viewfinder)

I encourage anyone with a camera that has a WLF to go and get it, sit with it whilst I explain the following:

He told me to put the camera near my belly button and look down into the WLF.

Whilst doing this you can frame/compose the image and rough focus on the ground glass screen all at the same time.

If the aperture was small enough then the rough focus would be good enough

If you required critical focus he told me to flip the magnifier up; which I did.

Looking down on the finder at waist level he told me that the magnifier would only magnify the focusing aid in the centre of the screen - which it did; I now had a nicely magnified view of the split prism only and focusing was a cinch.

He explained putting your head down to the finder only gives you a magnified view of the whole focusing screen - not just the focusing aid; doesn't make focus better, lengthens the time to take the shot and puts the camera between the subject and you.

He did later say the only time to put your head to the focusing hood was to cut out excessive light.

Took some time to get used to (a roll of film) but focusing is so easy this way.

Just tried this with both my Bronica SQ and Yashicamat, but it doesn't work for me. I'm happy to concede there may be a midpoint between eye and waist where the central focusing aid fills the magnifier and things work better, but then there is the fact that the Bronny at least has a range of dioptres for the magnifier. I find the split image in the Bronny really snaps into focus when the magnifier is close to my eye, but I'm currently waiting on prescription specs to help me with manual focusing and things might look different with them? It's an interesting idea though, and well worth trying while waiting for the snow to melt!

 

[excalibur2]

The RB67 with the 180mm has been a huge pain to focus correctly. The only way I've been able to get decent results is on a tripod and with my face pressed up to the magnifier. So many wasted shots due to missed focus. I'd agree that infinity focussing with wide angle lenses rarely requires me to focus tune, but when it's critical that a close object be in focus, my eyesight simply isn't good enough to determine that from 2ft away.

Well you could use a prism but does defeat the object of the so called advantages of using a waist finder and must be difficult in a war zone with your head well above the parapet
IIRC (many moons ago) there was a plastic gift thingy in a magazine which allowed you to roughly use a TLR at eye level... well I can't remember if it was any use or if it was even for a tlr, maybe someone knows

 

[john.margetts]

Hi John (and others) This is exactly what I originally thought until I got my first MF camera back in the late 1980's.
<snip>

With a central focusing aid, perhaps. None of my waist-level finders have any sort of focusing aid - Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex, Lumireflex, Praktica FX, Exacta Varex II, Exa IIa, Edixaflex - so close-up focusing is required.

I have just tried your technique with my Ikoflex and it does not work at all. All I can see through the magnifier is a very distorted central portion of the image which is useless for focusing. Moving my eye to the magnifier gives me a magnified and distortion free view of the whole image.

 

[Fraser Euan White]

Just tried this with both my Bronica SQ and Yashicamat, but it doesn't work for me. I'm happy to concede there may be a midpoint between eye and waist where the central focusing aid fills the magnifier and things work better, but then there is the fact that the Bronny at least has a range of dioptres for the magnifier. I find the split image in the Bronny really snaps into focus when the magnifier is close to my eye, but I'm currently waiting on prescription specs to help me with manual focusing and things might look different with them? It's an interesting idea though, and well worth trying while waiting for the snow to melt!

When the new glasses arrive try it again Peter - I have the neck strap adjusted so it is the correct distance from my eye so the focusing aid completely fills the magnifier - shutting one eye helps.
Thought I would share this as I find it really useful and a very comfortable way of using a WLF

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I used Rolleiflexes and Minolta Autocords with waist level finders from 1956 to 2000. much of that time as a professional.
in all that time I either used the magnifier with a bent head or used the through the hood focus ability at eye-level.
On the my later Rolleiflexes I often used the eye level Pentaprism as my preferred option, as the image was clearer and the right way round.

My earliest, waist level finder (1952) was on a TP Ruby Reflex taking 1/4 plate glass plate holders. this also needed to be used with the eyes close to the hood or you would see nothing at all.

Rolleiflex did sell an extender leather hood attachment to aid vision in sunny conditions, but I never saw anyone one using one.

They also sold a range finder attachment to be used with the straight through facility on the waist level hood. they seem to be designed for reselling unused at camera fairs.

The Idea that rollieflex cameras should only be used at belly button height is mythical. and was not the way they were mostly used by professionals. the height a camera should be used is governed by the viewpoint required. This is true for any camera.

 

[FujiLove]

The eye should be brought up to the magnifier, as demonstrated by Victor Hasselblad (on the right):

From the Rollei Manual (Alec Pearlman):

"A 4 x magnifier is built into the wall of the hood which springs to a horizontal position over the centre of the screen at a touch. This enables the eye to be brought into position over the magnifier and at a turn of the focusing knob the subject can be accurately focused on the fine screen."

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The eye should be brought up to the magnifier, as demonstrated by Victor Hasselblad (on the right):

From the Rollei Manual (Alec Pearlman):

"A 4 x magnifier is built into the wall of the hood which springs to a horizontal position over the centre of the screen at a touch. This enables the eye to be brought into position over the magnifier and at a turn of the focusing knob the subject can be accurately focused on the fine screen."

I actually worked for Alec Pearlman in his Harrow and Watford photo centres for a couple of months, before moving to work in Spain in 1957. As the leading Authority on using Rolleiflex there was nothing he did not know about the Rollei. but that predated the removable viewfinder hood models.

That was at the time Dixon set themselves up as the first "box shifters" nearby, and changed the trade for ever

 

[Fraser Euan White]

The eye should be brought up to the magnifier, as demonstrated by Victor Hasselblad (on the right):

From the Rollei Manual (Alec Pearlman):

"A 4 x magnifier is built into the wall of the hood which springs to a horizontal position over the centre of the screen at a touch. This enables the eye to be brought into position over the magnifier and at a turn of the focusing knob the subject can be accurately focused on the fine screen."

But Mr Heidecke has his eye 'in position over the magnifier' in the attached photo.

Horses for courses though - the method described works perfectly for me and saves the camera doing a 'whores drawers' impersonation.

In fairness the actual instruction manual for a Rolleiflex 3.5f does state to bring your eye 'close to' the magnifier.

I suppose it is whatever you are comfortable with - just thought I would share.

 

[kendo1]

Just because it is called a waist level finder does not mean that that is how it should be used.
It can be used that way, but there are more options.

 

[Mr Badger]

Just because it is called a waist level finder does not mean that that is how it should be used.
It can be used that way, but there are more options.

You mean I've been doing head-stands for nothing?!!

 

[gunnar]

I use the magnifier and bring it up to the eye when I shoot a portrait and need to nail the focus.

For landscapes where it's not that critical, or for street where I don't have time, I focus at waist level.

Also with Rollei (or any other TLR) I use it as a quick preview for the shot without having to even touch he camera - I just glance down as I face an object of interest.
Doesn't work quite as well with Mamiya 645 as the lens points down by default