Videos on DSLR: stabilization

Sebastian

Sebastian

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Sebastian
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I am thinking about buying D7000 (backup for D3, crop factor, VIDEOS!)
I can't wait to start shooting videos with it!

My question is:

What kind of stabilization would you recommend for this camera?
I would like to try and shoot some videos for bands, so this will involve plenty of running, panning, zooming...
Is Flycam the only choice?

I recently saw "Dolleys" for tripods - are these any good?

Thanks for you help!


Seb
 
Isn't the wobble effect on dslr video going to be a constraint if doing a lot of panning etc.?
 
You are right, it might be a problem. But I am quite optimistic after seeing some youtube videos of DSLR + Flycam combination. I was just wondering it there is any decent alternative for this set.
 
Sebastian said:
I would like to try and shoot some videos for bands, so this will involve plenty of running, panning, zooming...
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Seb the problem here is that the things you want to do are the things a video DSLR is really bad at. I use both a pro camcorder and video on my 1DmkIV but I only use the mkIV when I have a lot of time to set a shot up and get the focus right etc. Zooming with it is possible but would take a very steady hand and loads of practice to get the focus while zooming.

If you are serious about taking videos I would seriously have a look at some camcorders. :)

Andy S
 
EMA747 said:
Seb the problem here is that the things you want to do are the things a video DSLR is really bad at. I use both a pro camcorder and video on my 1DmkIV but I only use the mkIV when I have a lot of time to set a shot up and get the focus right etc. Zooming with it is possible but would take a very steady hand and loads of practice to get the focus while zooming.

If you are serious about taking videos I would seriously have a look at some camcorders. :)

Andy S
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The thing is that I have no idea if I will be taking videos seriously :) I have few bands that I like and can work with and want to experiment a little. I would buy D7000 anyway as a second body. I just thought that I will give it a go and see if I will be able to come up with decent videos. Stabilization is crucial so... I will be looking for something :)
 
If you are going to get a D7000 whatever happens then give videos a try. Just don't expect too much. ;) Stabilization on DLSRs is very poor compared to dedicated camcorders. They are also quite tricky to hold right for video.

I find this forum quite helpful and might be worth a look http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/
 
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If you want to make real video footage, not just web type stuff, I would look at Canon rather than Nikon. The Canon shoots 1080p at 25fps sec rather than 24 of Nikons. I would think the conversion could be messy and introduce motion blur and other atefacts.
 
check out the glide steady cam, also check out a guy called Phillip Bloom and dslrnewsshooter.com
 
oldnick said:
If you want to make real video footage, not just web type stuff, I would look at Canon rather than Nikon. The Canon shoots 1080p at 25fps sec rather than 24 of Nikons. I would think the conversion could be messy and introduce motion blur and other atefacts.
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The way 24p is converted to 25p is to just speed it up. Side by side you notice it, otherwise you don't. Whether your editing software can manage this is another matter though....
 
arad85 said:
The way 24p is converted to 25p is to just speed it up. Side by side you notice it, otherwise you don't. Whether your editing software can manage this is another matter though....
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PAL editing software can speed footage up by god knows how much 600% perhaps, but the signal looked at on a waveform monitor will still be at 25fps. I'm not sure about FCP but Avid will not touch the audio, so lip sync will be another problem, if the video is speeded up.
 
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oldnick said:
PAL editing software can speed footage up by god knows how much 600% perhaps, but the signal looked at on a waveform monitor will still be at 25fps. I'm not sure about FCP but Avid will not touch the audio, so lip sync will be another problem, if the video is speeded up.
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Audio is pitch shifted. That's why I said it depends if your editing s/w can cope. 24p sped to 25p, audio resampled. Either that or 1 frame repeated every 25, but that can be annoying if you're susceptible to judder.
 
Just do a Google search of 24fps to 25 fps conversion, it causes juddery pictures, and lip sync problems. Canon shoot proper 1080p @25fps thats why the pros use them. Nikon should take note.
 
A further thought - 24/25fps is crap for fast movement ie the type of work planned. Canon SLRs can shoot at 50fps @720i although fast movement and no auto focus could be a problem.:|
 
What can I say guys...

Thanks for all your input!

I won't switch to Canon. No way. So I'm stuck with 24fps.
Who knows, maybe Nikon will release upgraded software for D7000?...

Please let me know if you know any software that will scale / convert it to 25 fps.

I might get my new toy tomorrow! I'm excited :D
 
Stabilisation.... it all depends on what shot you want really...

last couple days we've been shooting with everything from handheld with redrock rig, to full track and dolly setup. Been shooting with 2x7D and 1x5D. Scripted drama.

Redrock rigs are very nice but overpriced, my friend is about to get a Jag35 one which is highly rated but much more affordable, at the low end, cheesycam blog talks about a $24 stabiliser quite a bit.

Lots of people like steadicam devices, and I've shot with them, both the indian/hague steadicam and also the merlin, and they're ok, but they are a particular...look, and the problem then with slrs is pulling focus - you need your AC pulling focus on a whip, which usually means that you need an external monitor for them, which means that your operator can't use the back screen, etcetcetc.

You also need to think heavily about audio, there's infinite stuff on vimeo that's beautifully shot at f1.4, and has crappy sound.

What I would advise, whatever else you buy: get a tripod. A fluid head tripod. There's one that's about £110 that's meant to be about as good as a manfrotto 503 head + sticks, but obviously cheaper. THE most essential thing really, regardless of what kind of filming you want to do.


some light reading:

dan chung
vincent laforet
phillip bloom
cheesycam
 
oldnick said:
Just do a Google search of 24fps to 25 fps conversion, it causes juddery pictures, and lip sync problems. Canon shoot proper 1080p @25fps thats why the pros use them. Nikon should take note.
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Sorry, but you're wrong. This is what is done in the broadcast industry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p#Converting_24p_to_PAL

If you frame repeat, it judders. The common way of converting is speeding audio and video up by 4%. Why do you think all movies (which are generally shot at 23.976fps) are perfectly judder free on UK TV sets? It's because they've been sped up 4%....

In the US, where the frame rate is 29.97, they do something called 3:2 pulldown to display 24p film which causes more regular judder which people find more acceptable than the 1 frame repeated every second (see further on in the article on wiki).

I know you can do this in Premiere Pro. You right click the file in the project bin, choose Modify->Interpret Footage and then select "Assume this frame rate" and set to whatever you want to be rendering to. The clip lengthens or shortens accordingly.

You'll probably find most "pros" shooting in 24p as it makes it easier to sell to different countries whilst limiting artefacts. I think the reason people choose Canon is the full frame sensor and the creative DoF it allows....
 
Sebastian said:
Please let me know if you know any software that will scale / convert it to 25 fps.
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See my post above. Premiere Pro definitely does. I would expect other editing software to do it too...
 
oldnick said:
Just do a Google search of 24fps to 25 fps conversion, it causes juddery pictures, and lip sync problems. Canon shoot proper 1080p @25fps thats why the pros use them. Nikon should take note.
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Not forgetting that the Canon has the Magic Lantern firmware which gives cinematographers some of the tools which make the camera easy to use.

oldnick said:
A further thought - 24/25fps is crap for fast movement ie the type of work planned. Canon SLRs can shoot at 50fps @720i although fast movement and no auto focus could be a problem.:|
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You're not doing very well today are you ;) The 5Dmk2 doesn't have a 720 mode. The cameras that do have it (7D/550D/60D) do 720p (at 50/59.94) not 720i and they're crop sensors....
 
Dave: thanks mate. I will go to cheesycam and have a look now :)
Andy: very useful Wiki article, thanks!
 
arad85 said:
You'll probably find most "pros" shooting in 24p as it makes it easier to sell to different countries whilst limiting artefacts. I think the reason people choose Canon is the full frame sensor and the creative DoF it allows....
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And the fact that it's not a royal pain in the rear to shoot on, unlike nikon... *glares*

Well. Not as much of a pain, anyway :D
 
itsdavedotnet said:
What I would advise, whatever else you buy: get a tripod. A fluid head tripod. There's one that's about £110 that's meant to be about as good as a manfrotto 503 head + sticks,
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Is that the Libec TH650 DV?
 
arad85 said:
Not forgetting that the Canon has the Magic Lantern firmware which gives cinematographers some of the tools which make the camera easy to use.

You're not doing very well today are you ;) The 5Dmk2 doesn't have a 720 mode. The cameras that do have it (7D/550D/60D) do 720p (at 50/59.94) not 720i and they're crop sensors....
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Well Andy - isnt the 7000 a crop sensor too? and as a video editor with 20 years in the industry, I stick by my assertion that it is far better to shoot at the correct frame rate in the first place. It is a relatively simple matter to speed up film, as its mechanical. Speeding up video footage is more complicated. If I were shooting for television, the make of camera would be un important, the main thing is that the finished material passes QC at the broadcaster, and loose lip sync and motion errors are very likely to get a programme rejected.
 
oldnick said:
Well Andy - isnt the 7000 a crop sensor too?
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Yes, but you lose the DoF advantage of the FF sensor. Nothing more, nothing less.

oldnick said:
and as a video editor with 20 years in the industry,
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Well, I'm amazed with that experience you think changing frame rates is difficult! NLE in the video industry make 24p->25p totally painless. It just makes things 4% shorter and a slight pitch shift (which can be corrected if needed). If you want proof this happens, just go to amazon.com and amazon.co.uk, select two videos that are exactly the same and compare the running times. I did for the DVD version of Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy. Lo and behold, the UK version is 4% shorter than the US version (462mins vs 444mins = 462 * 24 / 25)....

BTW, I have close to 20 years experience in the digital video broadcast industry too ;)

oldnick said:
I stick by my assertion that it is far better to shoot at the correct frame rate in the first place.
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Define correct frame rate? For the UK, it is 50 fields per second (even HD is broadcast as 50i, not 25p even if the source is progressive), for the US it is 59.94 fields per second, for the film industry, it is 23.976 frames per second. What do you shoot at if you want to make something that can be sold worldwide?

For example, even though I'm UK based, all my video is shot in 24p, but that's because most of what my media centre plays is 24p (films) so when I start playing my home movies, the TV doesn't resync to 25p when the video starts... And anything that is coded at 23.976p is sped up 0.01% to 24p. Again, simple to do. Anyway, it's a moot point as this is all about getting the Nikon video files to 25p/50i.

oldnick said:
It is a relatively simple matter to speed up film, as its mechanical. Speeding up video footage is more complicated.
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Assuming you mean digital video footage (and if it isn't digital, it very quickly becomes digital through a capture program), no it isn't - it's entirely predictable and very VERY easy! For 24p<->25p you just specify the output framerate and resample the audio. For 24p<->30P (e.g. US) you do 3:2 pulldown and leave the audio alone. Job done.
 
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