vulcan to the sky

[TCR4x4]

So Tom, would Save the Children also incur your wrath too? They pay much more to their CEO, don't tend to let people who donate near the children they pay for and also drive very expensive cars. I understand though, the VTTS are donated, whereas STC pay for theirs. Like it or not, the Vulcan is flying and that is undoubtadly as a direct result of employing their CEO. Clearly, it is popular with a lot of people or it wouldn't be flying. Personally, I have no issue with getting letters from them asking for more. Just as most people who donate to Save the Children don't either. It's a charity, its how it works! I do get your point over struggling to pay for restoration, but thats the nature of the beast. There's no point in attacking someone else because they were successful where you weren't, it's the system that is at fault for refusing you, not for giving to them. CW318is On the contrary, Sally B does solicit for money, and if you want dull and tedious, watch one of it's displays! But it's horses for courses, I'd not worry one iota if Sally B was grounded, but some people would not share my joy in that. What did the Vulcan do? I seem to recall, living on a station with 2 squadrons of them that they were rather keen on NOT doing what they were designed for, something it succeeded in. Yes, one bomb on a runway, that stopped it being used for fast jets. Not to mention at least one Shrike attack that put pay to at least some SAM activity, and may well have saved a few Bionic Budgie pilots in the process. The B17 was an american aircraft, flown predominantly by US crews. If they want to commemorate it, fine, but I certainly wouldn't pay for it.

I have no links with save the children and could care less what they do. Plus it's a Stupid comparison. VTTS members are told when they join/donate they will get access to the aircraft, which many of them don't.

Its my view which I'm perfectly entitled too, if people want to donate, then that's fine and their choice. Doesn't mean I agree with their methods of spending the money and soliciting for it.

 

[cw318is]

I typed out a detailed response then thought better of it. My final comments on the matter are;

Vulcan displays this year (and last year) have been dull with few max rate turns or war power spiral climbs, and looking on Fighter Control and UKAR its not just me that thinks that.

B-17 losses by the 8th Air Force and RAF in the European theatre were in the interests of freedom and were part of events that changed the world, and on a completely different scale.

The Black Buck missions accomplished nothing that the Sea Harriers and GR3's already down there couldn't have done themselves, without needing such a complicated logistics plan and wouldn't have ended up being interned in Brazil. Out of the 7 black buck missions it was one destroyed fire control radar and a crater.

There isn't a Trident to the Sky charity, so thats a moot point.

It is quite clear that there are a lot of opinions about the Vulcan, its history and how charities are operated. I shall conclude by saying that as a loyal supporter of XH558 TVOC have used up a lot of goodwill and the constant threats of pay up or we'll scrap it have worn thin, so I'm really not that bothered if it gets turned into cat food tins now.

And I'm out!

 

[Mayfly]

Just to point out supporters do get access to 558 - there are organised hangar tours when it's housed and tours underneath it when on the ground at air shows. Granted they are not allowed in the cockpit but it would be folly to allow that because of the potential of FOD hazard.

 

[TCR4x4]

Just to point out supporters do get access to 558 - there are organised hangar tours when it's housed and tours underneath it when on the ground at air shows. Granted they are not allowed in the cockpit but it would be folly to allow that because of the potential of FOD hazard.

Yes they are told that, I have personally spoken to at least 10 who have been supporters since the start and haven't even been within 10 foot of it. Hence them coming to view ours. One an ex Vulcan pilot has now joined us as a permanent member and does free talks inside the cockpit to our visitors to explain what all the knobs and dials do.

 

[desantnik]

The Vulcan (and her fuel tankers) flew the longest flight of any bomber ever

At the time, it was surpassed by USAF B52 raids on Iraq launching from Barksdale AFB who's round trip was over *twice* the distance.

I'll give you that the whole Black Buck plan was as crazy and leftfield as anything the British military had ever done and that's saying something ;-)

 

[Mayfly]

Yes they are told that, I have personally spoken to at least 10 who have been supporters since the start and haven't even been within 10 foot of it. Hence them coming to view ours. One an ex Vulcan pilot has now joined us as a permanent member and does free talks inside the cockpit to our visitors to explain what all the knobs and dials do.

XM569 at Jet Age at a guess?

 

[Bernie174]

Tom
I've not said your not entitled to a view, but others are equally entitled to an opposing view.
You've spent a lot of time oh=n here decrying what VTTS have achieved, and like it or not they have achieved it.
As I said, I understand your point about not getting funding, but thats hardly the fault of VTTS.
As for a stupid comparison, it wasn't a comparison, it was an illustration that most charities operate in exactly the same way as VTTS does.

cw318is

I long since ceased to care much about what UKAR members think, the discussions on there make those here look highbrow! In any case, last time I wanted a laugh and looked the split wasn't all in support of your view, far from it. Anyway, who cares, the members of UKAR are not (in spite of what some of thier members think( the majority of airshow goes in the UK, in fact, with just a few 1000 members, they are in reality a very small minority. The rest of the public seem happy, so end of their relevance.

Ok, so you think its display has been pedestrian for the last 2 years? You clearly were not at Eastborne last year. In any event, so what. The Sea Vixen, as another example doesn't display to it's full capacity, B17 doesn't, Lancaster doesn't. Hunters don't, and nor do most aircraft, especially those that are old and have a limited life. If flying round slowly, ish, preserves that airframe then so be it. Far better an aircraft in the air, than cat food cans or sat at Bruntingthorpe.

As for Sea Harriers achieving the same thing...Have you ever seen 21 1000lbs go off? I have, about a mile out to sea in Episkopi bay. The effect of that made the preceding harriers attempts look puny. So the very effect and impact of that certain did eclipse the harriers 2 at most each 1000lbs. Mind you, the Vulcan didn't try the harrier class act of planting itself into happy valley shortly after OC 1 Sqdn got out and walked.

 

[Byker28i]

Yes I have an agenda. I've spent the last 20 years of my life working to the bone to restore classic aircraft as have the other handful of volunteers who work for us. We've been paid nothing and asked for nothing.

The museum has been refused lottery funding on 3 occasions at massive cost to ourselves. If it wasn't for our heritage we are trying to preserve, the Vulcan and any other British jet wouldn't exist. No one seems bothered by the fact the jet engine was invented in our backyard and all that history has been destroyed, except for the small amount we have managed to salvage and preserve.

Everything we have has been hard fought for, and all the money raised has been by hard work on the ground, attending shows and other fundraising activities. A small group of businesses in the local area have been very supportive over the years and have given generously, as have a handful of ex GAC employes, leaving sums in their wills to help maintain the aircraft we have.
It's taken 20 years to get enough money together to build a permanent hangar to house our collection of vintage and important airframes. For the last 10 years, we haven't had a building to store our aircraft in at all!

We don't pay anyone 70k a year, we don't have a fleet of BMW's, we allow all our volunteers full access to the exhibits, we don't send out letters begging for more money after people have graciously donated, we don't bend the truth in order to make it seem like we are tight on funds and we don't charge people extortionate amounts of money to photograph stuff.

Excuse me if I find the actions and salaries of the VTTS repulsive, but its something very close to my heart and has been a part of my life longer than it hasn't.

It's not just me that thinks this way, many ex VTTS members have come to us as they donated large sums, but were not allowed within 10 foot of the aircraft, so they had to come sit in ours instead. We have also had several of their members join us as volunteers and ditch the VTTS due to the high level of mistrust in the group.

Where is this? Kemble?

 

[Mayfly]

The Falklands showed Argentina we could, if need be, hit their mainland and that forced them to withdraw some of their jets to keep back for defence thereby lightening the load of the FI.

I agree with the UKar comments they are not as all informed as they think.

Anyway the point of this post is to say they have managed to up the number of places available to 15 and thus reduced the cost to £60 - however they have already sold 10.

 

[desantnik]

The Falklands showed Argentina we could, if need be, hit their mainland and that forced them to withdraw some of their jets to keep back for defence thereby lightening the load of the FI.

That's not actually true, some Mirage III's were withdrawn but the airfield was repaired and Skyhawk's used it.

When you crater an airfield its only a tactical play anyway, nobody assumes you can permanently disable it (unless you use "crowd pleasers")