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Following on from this thread, https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/white-balance-question-using-flash-with-ambient.609837/ which started off as a simple question about balancing ambient light and flash (to which CTO gel on the flash was the answer) I had another go at this last night - but this was less about getting the ambient lit background this time as Finley refused to stand in front of the tree. So, we put his favourite programmes on TV (Lorna's suggestion) and that kept him still enough to grab a few shots, though very few of him looking at the camera (I'm happy to wait until he's a little older for that to happen).

I got a lot of very useful tips in the previous thread, and I'd like to thank those that either just took the time to comment or passed on their knowledge.

Things done differently in this shot, following tips in the previous thread:
  1. Used a remote trigger rather than pop up flash to act as the commander, so no flash exposure from the pop up flash (which would not turn off, though I know how to do this now). It also successfully fired the slave flash which it didn't in the first shot in the previous thread - thanks Phil, David, Craig, Simon, Chris (@Phil V, @Pookeyhead, @CraigDHD, @juggler, @chris malcolm) for spotting this and convincing me what the problem was. Looking at the number of people tagged, I took a little too much convincing!!!;
  2. Listen to what more experienced people tell you, they know best;
  3. Flash head was positioned more centrally in, and further away from the umbrella (using the other half's hair bands to attach it to the flash which was in it's upright position and tilted down) - thanks Simon (@juggler);
  4. Flash was set at widest zoom setting (14mm) to fill the umbrella as much as possible - thank you Kris (@Livin The Dream) and Phil V again;
  5. Flash was put as high as it would go (height rather than power) and Finley was lower in relation to the flash position - thanks again Kris.
  6. Flash was as close as I could practically get it (thanks David, again);
  7. Colour profile set in Adobe Camera Raw to use sRGB rather than Adobe RGB (which was causing colour cast issues before) - this is a HUGE help, as I've had issues getting skin tones correct - many thanks David (@minnnt) for spotting this. I also had a read through some of your threads on the issue - see next point!!;
  8. Colour settings in PS were changed to settings previously put on another thread by David (though this is straight from ACR) so no impact on this picture;
  9. WB left as shot, rather than adjusting it to standard "flash" setting of 5500K - another thing that should make a big difference to future shots (thank Phil, yet again);
  10. Take the photos before Finley has spaghetti (or anything else messy) for his tea rather than after, or make sure he's had a good face wash first to save cloning out/spot removing food left on his face (worked this one out on my own).
I think that's all of it, so from one thread quite a few very useful pieces of information. Flash head adaptors will be a Christmas pressie this year so I can start to use the light stands I already have which have so far not been used (from cheap eBay kit and the lights are too weak...) - thanks to all those that provided suggestions and Bob (@Bobsyeruncle) in particular for finding the one closest to what I had in mind. A decent monitor is on the wish list (so if I get a bonus in the New Year, and have paid for the wedding by then this is the next planned big purchase).

After all that, I hope there's nothing too much wrong with this shot (and others on Flickr) :) though if there is please let me know, I still want to learn.

IMG_3086 by Ian Bradshaw, on Flickr
 
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that's a really nice shot Ian, good to see the work paying off.

oh forgot, a wee cheat for getting eye contact with the camera during family photos, which discovered doing my crimbo photos as my son is impossible to keep still.

I balanced my hudl on top of my lens and wait till a funny bit in ben and holly to shoot.
 
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I've been following the thread closely and it's threads like this which shows the extent of help and advice here..
Well done guys :)
 
That is a great shot. Both the actual instant capture and also the technical aspect. I would be very pleased with a picture like this.
 
oh forgot, a wee cheat for getting eye contact with the camera during family photos, which discovered doing my crimbo photos as my son is impossible to keep still.

I balanced my hudl on top of my lens and wait till a funny bit in ben and holly to shoot.

Thanks Craig - that's some balancing skills you have. Finley does watch things on our phones so I might have a go at rigging something up...or use tape, as I'm not sure I have the same level of balancing skills as you! Another great tip.


Thank you Simon - your help and advice has been greatly appreciated in this and previous posts.

I've been following the thread closely and it's threads like this which shows the extent of help and advice here..
Well done guys :)

Totally agree - I've learnt so much since discovering TP (and the previous thread in particular). It's been a great way to keep moving forward with photography.

What a great capture, so absorbed in what he's watching :)

Thanks Andy, he's at the age now where he's understanding the story, so he does get totally absorbed. It made a change shooting him while he was sat still for once.

That is a great shot. Both the actual instant capture and also the technical aspect. I would be very pleased with a picture like this.

Thank you Raphael, appreciate you commenting.
 
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Thanks Craig - that's some balancing skills you have. Finley does watch things on our phones so I might have a go at rigging something up...or use tape, as I'm not sure I have the same level of balancing skills as you! Another great tip.

I maybe should have added the camera was on a tripod, it was for getting one of the 3 of us together. It settled alright, was a bit of a quick macgyver fix to try and get him to look near the camera when we were both behind him. Propped lower edge behind lens hood and lent back against body, he sat a lot better than normal after that, but yeah doubt I could chase him with it balanced there.

Maybe need to get myself on dragons den with a hot shoe mobile phone holder for toddlers Peter would surely want it for a jessops exclusive :)
 
I maybe should have added the camera was on a tripod, it was for getting one of the 3 of us together. It settled alright, was a bit of a quick macgyver fix to try and get him to look near the camera when we were both behind him. Propped lower edge behind lens hood and lent back against body, he sat a lot better than normal after that, but yeah doubt I could chase him with it balanced there.

Maybe need to get myself on dragons den with a hot shoe mobile phone holder for toddlers Peter would surely want it for a jessops exclusive :)

Ah, that makes more sense. I'm sure Peter would like it, ask if you have a patent and then go away and make it if you haven't. Probably the modern day, and more likely to work, equivalent of this I suppose.

pez by Ian Bradshaw, on Flickr

I recon with a bit of a plastic milk bottle and some elastic bands I may be able to make something to attach to the remote trigger. Watch this space (you have first dibs at Dragon's Den though).

Reminds me of the time we had a film crew doing some video work for a client, "So, you know the script right?" said the director. Blank faces from all, cue the camera man quickly loading the scripts onto his iPhone and taping it to the lens. It worked great apart from for the one guy who didn't have his glasses with him (and the resulting video of him trying to read off the printed version was awful). They paid for an autocue machine and operator next time they did it...

A thought just occurred whilst typing this, something that attaches to the lens in the same way a filter does (with the phone above or below the lens, obviously) would be an elegant solution...
 
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I love it when a plan comes together. :clap:

Onwards and upwards.
 
Can I just say Morbid, I have followed this thread (I have no understanding of flash, modifiers and such like, so didn't leave any comments).
I'm so glad that you have taken/had another go at this, taking all of the advise given and then posting and thanking everyone that's helped you.
 
Can I just say Morbid, I have followed this thread (I have no understanding of flash, modifiers and such like, so didn't leave any comments).
I'm so glad that you have taken/had another go at this, taking all of the advise given and then posting and thanking everyone that's helped you.

Cheers for that @Nostromo, I'm determined to improve my photography, and I really wanted to get this sort of thing under my belt. If people are kind enough to comment and offer advice, it's only right to say thank you, and I find it a little irritating when I comment sometimes where I can offer advice and you don't hear from the OP again.

I learned so much in that last thread it was worth noting down the key learning points for my own use, as well as any others that may find it of use.
 
Great shot Ian, good composition, lovely expression, and very well caught.(y)

George.
 
Thanks all for the kind words, have tried yet again for the Christmas tree shot, using grey card for WB and with my iPhone held above the lens to get eye contact (it worked a treat, he always sits and watches Peppa Pig - it's like Prozac to him). Will post a shot when they've finished uploading to Flickr.
 
Boom! They're perfectly captured, big improvements. Well done Ian.

One of the biggest investments for me was a decent monitor and calibration tool. I bought a cheap Huey device to begin with and results were poor when I printed. My consistency improved overnight. However, sometimes lots of little things add up. Simple elements like the colour space issue can drive you nuts to find the cause. Must admit, I thought there was a green cast to the skin tones but didn't suss that as being the culprit as I had read early on that all web output should be saved as sRGB. People's experiences are invaluable here.
 
Boom! They're perfectly captured, big improvements. Well done Ian.

One of the biggest investments for me was a decent monitor and calibration tool. I bought a cheap Huey device to begin with and results were poor when I printed. My consistency improved overnight. However, sometimes lots of little things add up. Simple elements like the colour space issue can drive you nuts to find the cause. Must admit, I thought there was a green cast to the skin tones but didn't suss that as being the culprit as I had read early on that all web output should be saved as sRGB. People's experiences are invaluable here.

Thanks Kris, so many little (and a couple of big) things have helped so much. Other half is out at her company Christmas do tonight so I grabbed Finley for 15 mins while she was getting ready and have processed them while she's out. Similar results so I'm more than happy.

Monitor is next on the wish list, the company I work for is on target to meet financial targets so I'm hoping there's enough to pay for what's left of the wedding expenses and a few quid spare for a decent monitor too. Have been looking at LG IPS curved screens (LG 29uc97c in particular). Want something decent but some are crazy money. Will see how things go.

Thanks again for the comment and help in the previous thread too.
 
I'd definitely recommend the X-Rite Display Pro to go with any monitor. Calibration is another big headache so certainly worth investing in a decent calibration device. If you can afford a monitor, try get something that's hardware calibrated. I bought the Dell model that gets recommended allot on here (U2713HM) though it's been discontinued now. Yes, there were monitors that look a bit more stylish but its output is superb.
 
Mmmm....if I got banker's level bonuses maybe!! Monitor looks great and still available in a few places. Agree calibration would be nice to have too. Bonus is paid in Feb so I'll see if I have anything left and then see what's about then...

Might sell the 17-40L as since getting the 24-70 it doesn't get used very much, but did use it for a family shot of about a dozen people last weekend. Decisions decisions!
 
Agree calibration would be nice to have too.

Essential, IMHO.

I had a 17-40L many moons ago and whilst it was ok for landscape with optimal aperture, it wasn't great for my portrait work. Depends whether you use 17-20mm much, the 24-70 is better for people unless you really haven't the room. I personally don't go below 24mm for group shots due to the distortion and generally use 35mm. Shot 12 people last week in quite cramped conditions with the 35. Only had that at the time, so made do with what I had.
 
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Essential, IMHO.

I had a 17-40L many moons ago and whilst it was ok for landscape with optimal aperture, it wasn't great for my portrait work. Depends whether you use 17-20mm much, the 24-70 is better for people unless you really haven't the room. I personally don't go below 24mm for group shots due to the distortion and generally use 35mm. Shot 12 people last week in quite cramped conditions with the 35. Only had that at the time, so made do with what I had.

Yes, I suppose it is. I must admit I don't know why you can't buy a monitor that works without needing to be calibrated every now and again. I don't need to calibrate the TV - which is essentially just a monitor (or do I? :thinking:).

I hardly use the 17-40, as I really only do portraits. The 24-70 is wide enough for the space I have (it was the nifty fifty which was too long), I should have just waited as this was the lens I wanted but few were available s/h at the time. As it was bought s/h shouldn't lose too much on it....perhaps it'll be worth keeping for landscapes, but only when on holiday as the scenery around me really isn't worth getting the camera out!! Need to have a think...

One from yesterday, though I forgot to shoot the grey card,,,d'oh!

IMG_3208 by Ian Bradshaw, on Flickr
 
In my experience, software calibrated monitors do 'drift' and need recalibrating every month or two. I actually haven't calibrated my Dell for 6 months or more and can't see any discernible difference in output (had a load of stuff printed last week!) since the day I did it. This leads me to the assumption that a hardware calibrated monitor is a little more 'hardy' in this respect.

David is the guru in respect to this subject so may be able to shed a little light on my experience. They tend to ship calibrated to sRGB but the i1 Display Pro calibrates to nearly the full spectrum of RGB, so a big benefit.

It's a large subject, and one that I shall admit to having a basic knowledge about, but still crucial for getting that important consistency in your work.

I used to take my 17-40L on holiday with me as it was relatively light, robust with a decent range. These days, I usually take a 35mm prime.

A grey card isn't always necessary. Great for a reference point, but usually alter slightly to taste.
 
In my experience, software calibrated monitors do 'drift' and need recalibrating every month or two. I actually haven't calibrated my Dell for 6 months or more and can't see any discernible difference in output (had a load of stuff printed last week!) since the day I did it. This leads me to the assumption that a hardware calibrated monitor is a little more 'hardy' in this respect.

David is the guru in respect to this subject so may be able to shed a little light on my experience. They tend to ship calibrated to sRGB but the i1 Display Pro calibrates to nearly the full spectrum of RGB, so a big benefit.

It's a large subject, and one that I shall admit to having a basic knowledge about, but still crucial for getting that important consistency in your work.

I used to take my 17-40L on holiday with me as it was relatively light, robust with a decent range. These days, I usually take a 35mm prime.

A grey card isn't always necessary. Great for a reference point, but usually alter slightly to taste.

Thanks Kris, more research to be done on the monitor I think...

I'll probably keep the lens, it's a useful range on a crop and handy as a back up (if I got rid of this I'd only have the 50mm or kit lens to fall back on). Took a few shots last night, his mum said he'd had a bath, so no need to wash him I thought...only when looking at the shots did I notice the orange food remains in his eyebrows. "I thought you'd bathed him?" I said, "Yes, after his breakfast as he got in a mess...er...he got in a bit of a mess with the pasta he had for dinner too" said Lorna. Oh well...

BTW, How's your little one doing? Thought you'd have put a few more photos up by now.
 
She's doing great apart from being quite restless. I probably would have put a few up but just sooo busy with work, be glad of Thurs!

Only got a few family snaps whilst out and about and some studio family stuff for presents - nothing too extravagant, so wasn't going to post up.

I found the 17-40 range a bit more useful on crop too.
 
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Don't be shy with the photos! Sounds like you'll need a break over Christmas?

Back to monitors...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/DELL-U2515H...=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1450799495&sr=1-1

This seems to have good reviews, and would appreciate your thoughts, and those of David (@Pookeyhead) should he stop by too - or anyone else with some knowledge in this area. I could probably go slightly higher on price to get something decent* if this isn't great. I've checked the graphics card on the laptop and it'll go to the resolution of the monitor, laptop has a mini DP port so I can connect to it...anything else I need to check?

*bear in mind I'm not a pro, and I know 'decent' will mean something different to me than it does to you but I can't justify spending ~ £700 upwards on a monitor (even if I had the money), so by 'decent' I mean a step up from the laptop screen, decent colour calibration for the money, well built and likely to last.
 
Have a look at this thread. If you trawl through the archives there's quite a bit.

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/24-monitor-for-photo-editing.593666/#post-6931341

Seems a popular choice and has everything you'd need, at a glance. If you've been using an uncalibrated laptop it will be like night and day. I have profiled my work laptop and it looks awful still compared to my Dell screen. I wouldn't spend £700 anyway. Bought my screen from a reputable 'seconds' supplier off ebay for around £400 (few minor scuff marks around the bezel but nothing you can't see without looking very closely). Add £170 for the Display Pro and it was a far better solution than the £800 apple monitor I was looking at, perfectly adequate for an amateur. Went through the headache of printing my own to begin with, but a properly calibrated set up has meant output is perfect, every time. Money well spent, long term.
 
Hey Ian, I've kept a keen eye on your posts and I just wanted to say, you are seriously heading in the right direction! You've taken some awesome shots of Finlay recently and it's been great watching your journey unfold. I don't spend as much time here as I used to, but every time I pop in to look, you've posted an improved shot from the last one I saw. Keep at it, you're doing great!

I've just figured out you live quite close to me, so if you are up for trying a shoot together, I have loads of studio kit and would be more than happy to set something up so you can try out softer light with softboxes? Let me know and we can try to sort something out :)
 
Have a look at this thread. If you trawl through the archives there's quite a bit.

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/24-monitor-for-photo-editing.593666/#post-6931341

Seems a popular choice and has everything you'd need, at a glance. If you've been using an uncalibrated laptop it will be like night and day. I have profiled my work laptop and it looks awful still compared to my Dell screen. I wouldn't spend £700 anyway. Bought my screen from a reputable 'seconds' supplier off ebay for around £400 (few minor scuff marks around the bezel but nothing you can't see without looking very closely). Add £170 for the Display Pro and it was a far better solution than the £800 apple monitor I was looking at, perfectly adequate for an amateur. Went through the headache of printing my own to begin with, but a properly calibrated set up has meant output is perfect, every time. Money well spent, long term.

Thanks Kris, I did do a quick search but in the wrong section it seems. Lots of people seeming to rate the Dell monitors, only one negative but that was comparing it with an Eizo (I'm thinking monitors are like hi-fi speakers, decent ones sound great until you try something better). Will keep researching and see if there are any in the January sales. Calibration kit will follow soon afterwards.
 
Hey Ian, I've kept a keen eye on your posts and I just wanted to say, you are seriously heading in the right direction! You've taken some awesome shots of Finlay recently and it's been great watching your journey unfold. I don't spend as much time here as I used to, but every time I pop in to look, you've posted an improved shot from the last one I saw. Keep at it, you're doing great!

I've just figured out you live quite close to me, so if you are up for trying a shoot together, I have loads of studio kit and would be more than happy to set something up so you can try out softer light with softboxes? Let me know and we can try to sort something out :)

Wow! Thanks Graham, that's really kind of you to say that.

That sounds awesome! Would love to do that.

ETA - just seen on your Flickr account where you are, that's really close.
 
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Hey Ian, I've got a bit of time after Christmas and before the 3rd of Jan but no worries if it's not possible during the break - we can always meet up over a weekend too. Let's take it to PM and work something out :)

PS - I take no responsibility for any GAS you may suffer after playing with the lights and modifiers ;)
 
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Hey Ian, I've got a bit of time after Christmas and before the 3rd of Jan but no worries if it's not possible during the break - we can always meet up over a weekend too. Let's take it to PM and work something out :)

PS - I take no responsibility for any GAS you may suffer after playing with the lights and modifiers ;)

Thanks Graham - you have mail!
 
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