Wild Waxwing
- Thread starter the ghost
- Start date
Tringa
Numpty of the Day'
- Messages
- 5,835
- Name
- Dave
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Great shots Paul, especially 2 and 3, of superb birds that would not look out of place in the tropics.
Were they taken in the north east? Although this does not seem to be a 'waxwing year', I'd heard some have been seen on the east coast.
Dave
Were they taken in the north east? Although this does not seem to be a 'waxwing year', I'd heard some have been seen on the east coast.
Dave
- Messages
- 12,939
- Edit My Images
- No
The first one is ok but is a tad central and there's too much dead space at the top.
No 2 suffers the same issues as No 1 but is a little softer than 1.
No 3 the composition is all wrong. It should be to the left of the frame with roughly the same amount of space as you have on the left but on the right. It's also a lot softer than the first 2.
The last one is just a mess imo. While the composition is the best of the set it appears to have been obliterated in PP, either that or it was just a pretty awful shot in camera.
The elements are all there in the set you've just not managed to string them all together in one picture. Still, they are lovely birds and it's always nice to have the opportunity to grab a few shots of them.
No 2 suffers the same issues as No 1 but is a little softer than 1.
No 3 the composition is all wrong. It should be to the left of the frame with roughly the same amount of space as you have on the left but on the right. It's also a lot softer than the first 2.
The last one is just a mess imo. While the composition is the best of the set it appears to have been obliterated in PP, either that or it was just a pretty awful shot in camera.
The elements are all there in the set you've just not managed to string them all together in one picture. Still, they are lovely birds and it's always nice to have the opportunity to grab a few shots of them.
OP
- Messages
- 1,907
- Name
- paul rogers
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Brash these are full images from the camera NO crop
suppose you want close ups.. Sorry no do, I like to see were they reside or feed.
Rule of thirds nope also link from flicker so lost quality ?
? If you don't like them why post. I DID NOT ask for criticism. ?
were are your pictures, I have not seen any.
I have not commented on any of yours so in future do not post on any of mine unless I ask For critique
Some people have never seen them as it was the first time for me
Yes Tringa they were taken in the northeast South shields on the coast there about 6 in the area a
suppose you want close ups.. Sorry no do, I like to see were they reside or feed.
Rule of thirds nope also link from flicker so lost quality ?
? If you don't like them why post. I DID NOT ask for criticism. ?
were are your pictures, I have not seen any.
I have not commented on any of yours so in future do not post on any of mine unless I ask For critique
Some people have never seen them as it was the first time for me
Yes Tringa they were taken in the northeast South shields on the coast there about 6 in the area a
Last edited:
- Messages
- 12,939
- Edit My Images
- No
You have posted your pictures in a critique section (look at the thread heading 'Photos For General Discussion and Critique') The fact you haven't actually asked for critique is neither here nor there. If you don't want critique I suggest you post in the photos for pleasure section.
If you are going to spit the dummy every time somebody tries to give you advice when you post sub standard photos then you're not going to learn or improve.
This is just another example of folk loving having their @rse being kissed by lapping up praise but throwing the toys out of the pram when honest crit is given.
I am entitled in the circumstances to give critique to your images and will continue to do so if I feel like it. If you are not happy with that I suggest you put me on your ignore list and the fact you've not commented on any of my pictures is not relevant either. I have posted thousands of images over the years I really don't know why you can't see any.
To address your points, I never mentioned 'rule of thirds.' I certainly never suggested getting close up shots or cropping in further, that would result in an even greater loss of iq and I refer you to the very last sentence with regards to the pleasure of seeing and being able to shoot such lovely birds.
I stand by my critique because the images are as I have described. If you are happy with them then that's fine but if you want to progress your photography skills you need to take on board criticism and advice folk give to you not sulk like a wee baby
Last edited:
- Messages
- 16,666
- Name
- Ade
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Oh dear. Another nail in the coffin of people offering decent and honest constructive criticism on here.
- Messages
- 16,666
- Name
- Ade
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I don`t actually agree with all your points Brian, but i`m sure as hell not going to get into a discussion about them after the response you received.
- Messages
- 12,939
- Edit My Images
- No
That's fair enough but I've given an honest opinion and alluded to how, in my opinion, these could be improved. Hey ho, it's really nothing less than I expect these days, same old same old, tell me my pics are great and everything is fine (even though they're not) but dare offer crit and you're a pariah or rude. Bloody joke imo.
Cg_Girl
Jamie Oliver's best friend.
- Messages
- 11,487
- Name
- T.
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Eh?
- Messages
- 12,668
- Edit My Images
- No
- Messages
- 661
- Edit My Images
- No
There's also the option to offer constructive criticism in a way that doesn't leave the OP feeling like they've been kicked in the balls.
cheers, cw
cheers, cw
- Messages
- 12,668
- Edit My Images
- No
good shot - what's it called
new2me
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 6,925
- Edit My Images
- Yes
It's a Troll Sparrow
- Messages
- 16,666
- Name
- Ade
- Edit My Images
- Yes
To be fair Chris, I don`t believe that the original crit was that harsh, it was fair and honest, not everybody will agree with all the points, I don`t, but the response was way over the top.
- Messages
- 12,939
- Edit My Images
- No
Have you something to say with regards to the pictures posted or you just slagging me off because at least I gave an opinion on them, agree or not, my view is my comments were honest, direct yes but fair as I see it.
- Messages
- 12,939
- Edit My Images
- No
Irrelevant and sod all to do with the op's posts.
- Messages
- 19,354
- Name
- Rich
- Edit My Images
- Yes
#1 Best of the set,looks pretty sharp and exposure looks well balanced.
#2 Again exposure looks pretty good,slightly softer on the subjects eye to me.Not sure about the watermark as that just detracts from the viewers eye.
#3 The most important part of the subject,that being the eye and head is really soft.
#4 Not sure what went on here but the colours are way off,could be a wb issue or even a wrong choice of picture style if you changed that.
#2 Again exposure looks pretty good,slightly softer on the subjects eye to me.Not sure about the watermark as that just detracts from the viewers eye.
#3 The most important part of the subject,that being the eye and head is really soft.
#4 Not sure what went on here but the colours are way off,could be a wb issue or even a wrong choice of picture style if you changed that.
- Messages
- 12,668
- Edit My Images
- No
Paul, if I could offer just a few general comments
Your copyright notice – I think that it is in the wrong place. What it really says to me is “please don’t copy my image”. It is easy to clone out your signature. I would put it at the bottom of the image so that it does not distract from the image or background…… maybe a little more subtle?
Just post your images at low res, say under 200k and 800 x 800 if you want to make them easy to load and less useful as something to copy … you won’t be able to prevent copying if that is what you are aiming for.
Composition – format – I’d try just to concentrate on one or two standard sizes. I always prefer landscape to portrait unless the bird is very tall. Consider, (and experiment), when to use left, right and central positions for you main subject, in this case the bird.
Background - with some birds you will always be presented with a cluttered background. You have to try to deal with it and decide on how much OOF you want to see.
Shadows and highlights and WB … try to identify these areas and “neutralise" them as far as possible.
Purple fringing – can always creep in, (as in your last image) – it is easy to play around to neutralise this and also there is a dominance of black.
When you post a ‘group” of the same bird – try to be consistent as far as possible in the areas of processing that you apply – i.e. control the main colours.
Post a little more space between your individual images so that they do not appear to be merged together – i.e. look at how you present them on the forum.
As far as the technical settings in the camera etc., are concerned you just need to be satisfied yourself on focus and sharpness and what settings you use to achieve the look that you are aiming for. If you post the main settings on here you will get comments
Don’t get too upset or annoyed about perceived negative comments, if you feel that they have some merit, (you may not), just use them to improve and self criticise your images ….. then have another go.
Image #1 is fine so play around with it, maybe landscape format and adjust the processing a little, keeping the bird in the right hand third and see what that will bring - one image is maybe enough to illustrate you posting
All IMHO, (some may disagree), and good luck
Your copyright notice – I think that it is in the wrong place. What it really says to me is “please don’t copy my image”. It is easy to clone out your signature. I would put it at the bottom of the image so that it does not distract from the image or background…… maybe a little more subtle?
Just post your images at low res, say under 200k and 800 x 800 if you want to make them easy to load and less useful as something to copy … you won’t be able to prevent copying if that is what you are aiming for.
Composition – format – I’d try just to concentrate on one or two standard sizes. I always prefer landscape to portrait unless the bird is very tall. Consider, (and experiment), when to use left, right and central positions for you main subject, in this case the bird.
Background - with some birds you will always be presented with a cluttered background. You have to try to deal with it and decide on how much OOF you want to see.
Shadows and highlights and WB … try to identify these areas and “neutralise" them as far as possible.
Purple fringing – can always creep in, (as in your last image) – it is easy to play around to neutralise this and also there is a dominance of black.
When you post a ‘group” of the same bird – try to be consistent as far as possible in the areas of processing that you apply – i.e. control the main colours.
Post a little more space between your individual images so that they do not appear to be merged together – i.e. look at how you present them on the forum.
As far as the technical settings in the camera etc., are concerned you just need to be satisfied yourself on focus and sharpness and what settings you use to achieve the look that you are aiming for. If you post the main settings on here you will get comments
Don’t get too upset or annoyed about perceived negative comments, if you feel that they have some merit, (you may not), just use them to improve and self criticise your images ….. then have another go.
Image #1 is fine so play around with it, maybe landscape format and adjust the processing a little, keeping the bird in the right hand third and see what that will bring - one image is maybe enough to illustrate you posting
All IMHO, (some may disagree), and good luck
Last edited:
- Messages
- 661
- Edit My Images
- No
Brash I'm not slagging you off - but try and look at this from the OP's perspective - they care deeply about these shots which probably explains their spectacular dummy spit.
Not all of us can accept your opinion as robustly as you give it no matter how honest.
So my main concern is that such harsh treatment will discourage folk from posting here in the future and that would be a bad thing as we all need a few pointers from time to time.
Tra for now
cheers, cw
- Messages
- 12,939
- Edit My Images
- No
Brash I'm not slagging you off - but try and look at this from the OP's perspective - they care deeply about these shots which probably explains their spectacular dummy spit.
Not all of us can accept your opinion as robustly as you give it no matter how honest.
So my main concern is that such harsh treatment will discourage folk from posting here in the future and that would be a bad thing as we all need a few pointers from time to time.
Tra for now
cheers, cw
I also care deeply about seeing decent shots of wildlife and in particular birds. It's a long hard road but I do get mightily hacked off when I see poor shots being praised unjustly and just as hacked off by the type of reaction I got here by, at the end of the day, trying to help.
My style is robust as you put it but always honest, that's just the way I am and that won't change. I could just have said the pics were crap without explanation as per the usual 'nice shot' 'great pic,' that's a cracker' type comments but I didn't I tried to give a reasoned crit. Sometimes I wonder why I bother I'd be as well just joining in with the well done matey mate crowd and nobody will learn bugger all.
- Messages
- 661
- Edit My Images
- No
- Messages
- 12,939
- Edit My Images
- No
That's fair - have a beer on me
I dinna drink but I'm out with the wife for a meal tonight and then to a pub my daughter works at so I'll have a pint of soda water, lime and ice if that's ok. Cheers
Greggster
Edward Woodward
- Messages
- 1,819
- Name
- Gregg
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I am a newbie so maybe speaking out of turn, but Brash, you seriously need some lessons in how to deliver cc. With your style of delivery which isn't helped by your username, you just p**s people off. And there's no need for that on a forum!
- Messages
- 12,939
- Edit My Images
- No
No I don't. It's just that people don't like/can't take direct crit a lot of the time. As I said everything is great while they get 'great pics mate' type comments when the pics are clearly, to anyone who knows anything about decent bird pics, anything but. Nobody stands to learn and improve from this type of misguided comments.
I'll tell you what, see if I've p***ed somebody off by my comments and as a result of this that person improves his/her pictures then to me that's a good thing.
As for my name, I didn't choose it, it's what I get called and it is fitting as a reflection of my character. I'm happy with it.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 12,939
- Edit My Images
- No
No I didn't miss the point at all, I knew exactly what you were saying and I don't think or intend changing my delivery.
As for my name, well it's my name and whether you or others don't think it helps is neither here nor there. I've long since given up caring a toss what people who don't know me think of me or my name come to that.
Aye, cheers!!!!
Last edited:
- Messages
- 12,668
- Edit My Images
- No
Ok I give up and why am I not surprised!
Anyway, apologies to the OP for hijacking, stupidly thought I could offer advice to reduce forum anger. Obviously not!
Over and out
never works Gregg, but at least you tried … each to his own as they say
- Messages
- 19,354
- Name
- Rich
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Sorry Gregg but you have this all wrong.To start off with, what someones user name is really has nothing to do with anything.The constructive C&C which was given to the OP would have been far more beneficial to him in the long run if he had accepted it for what it was, instead of what happens in a lot of cases, people taking it all on a personal level. And I quote.
" The first one is ok but is a tad central and there's too much dead space at the top.
No 2 suffers the same issues as No 1 but is a little softer than 1.
No 3 the composition is all wrong. It should be to the left of the frame with roughly the same amount of space as you have on the left but on the right. It's also a lot softer than the first 2.
The last one is just a mess imo. While the composition is the best of the set it appears to have been obliterated in PP, either that or it was just a pretty awful shot in camera.
The elements are all there in the set you've just not managed to string them all together in one picture. Still, they are lovely birds and it's always nice to have the opportunity to grab a few shots of them."
Perhaps you would like to give your interpretion of those pictures and give the OP some valuable feedback.
Yv
TPer Emerita
- Messages
- 25,725
- Name
- Yvonne, pronounced Eve...
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Right enough!!
Just for info, as far as the staff team are concerned, there is nothing wrong with Brash's original post. It might not have been sugar coated, but nor was it rude, nor impolite, it was simply straightforward critique. The pictures are posted in the critique area of the forum and are ergo open to such critique.
If you don't want comments/critique, then use photos for pleasure, it is what it is there for.
This section is also not the appropriate place to further discuss how or what someone posts, it simply drives a thread off topic and helps no one, certainly not the OP - if you don't like it, report it, if the staff consider it poor form, it will be dealt with. If it isn't dealt with, then you can consider it is fine and move on.
So, here where its ends, the discussion WILL now move back to that of the photos. To the OP, if you don't want further critique, the thread can be moved to a more appropriate area if you wish.
ETA: to add that accepting critique to help improve is not a bad thing, yo udon't have to agree with it, but it will help you consider your photography and that of others with a different viewpoint.
Just for info, as far as the staff team are concerned, there is nothing wrong with Brash's original post. It might not have been sugar coated, but nor was it rude, nor impolite, it was simply straightforward critique. The pictures are posted in the critique area of the forum and are ergo open to such critique.
If you don't want comments/critique, then use photos for pleasure, it is what it is there for.
This section is also not the appropriate place to further discuss how or what someone posts, it simply drives a thread off topic and helps no one, certainly not the OP - if you don't like it, report it, if the staff consider it poor form, it will be dealt with. If it isn't dealt with, then you can consider it is fine and move on.
So, here where its ends, the discussion WILL now move back to that of the photos. To the OP, if you don't want further critique, the thread can be moved to a more appropriate area if you wish.
ETA: to add that accepting critique to help improve is not a bad thing, yo udon't have to agree with it, but it will help you consider your photography and that of others with a different viewpoint.
Last edited: