Well its finaly happened! (HeLP! HELP!) :D

stu_the_flat

stu_the_flat

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Stuart
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In December I was a guest at a wedding of one of my work colleagues,

I was happily snapping away with my D60,Siggy 70-200mm, sb-600 and a Lambency diffuser

Well one of the women form my work is suitably impressed with the photos and wants my to do a family portrait.

They want the standard "something different" photo shoot! :D

This will be the first time the it matters if all my photos are rubbish! Also I don't really know the first time about group portraits!

It is a family of 4 mum, dad and two daughters aged somewhere between 16 and 18.

Can I please have advice both technical and inspirational! At the moment my idea is wait for spring! :D

Cheers Stuart
 
My only advice would be to make sure she is aware that you are not a "pro" and as such your results may not be what she's expecting. (I'm sure they'll be fine, but you're better to ensure all parties are aware)

Oh, and make sure you discuss payments up front - and get something in writing. Don't hand over any work until you've been paid.

Good luck.
 
Well to be honest she said that she will pay me. But I don't want to be paid because that just puts more pressure on me.

And I don't know how much I'm worth, They probably wouldn't be over charged at £0!

She has seen my work. I am a big fan of single portraits but I've never shot group shot. I'm always picking somebody out of the crowd with my 70-200mm

Stuart
 
Dont charge her, make her 110% aware you are not a pro, then she cant moan she paid over the odds for crap photos.

Not saying for a second they will be crap, but you know how some people act when they dont get what they want :D
 
I was in the same situation last summer, where i met a stranger at a wedding and she asked me to photograph all the grandchildren for her mum as a present. 6 children in total ranging from 7 to 21 years. I was completely honest with her, "I wasnt a professional photographer" , "I dont have a business and I shoot mostly for friends & family". I went ahead with the shoot and i probably learned more from that one session, technically and judging light. It was probably the hottest day, with high sun at mid-day (no shade!). I had my work cut out, i felt pressured but fortunately i had done lots of practice and research on group shoots prior to the date (who to focus on etc). Unfortunately the group shots didnt go as well as i expected but the individual and siblings together were fantastic. She loved all of the images, wanted 3 full sets of everything (75 images in the set) and I didnt ask for any money other than printing costs as i wanted it to be a learning experience and was grateful for the opportunity. The family kindly gave me a very generous voucher from Jessops as payment in kind. I would think seriously how to take this forward, be honest about your level of photography and most of all be prepared.
 
stu_the_flat said:
. But I don't want to be paid because that just puts more pressure on me. Stuart
Click to expand...

my first reaction is that you are entering into a "verbal" agreement to provide a service

this should be chargeable IMO - she is "at work" - not family

no fee - will encourage others at work to ask the same "favour"

If her husband was a mechanic - would you expect a MoT FOC just cos you work with her?
 
stu_the_flat said:
But I don't want to be paid because that just puts more pressure on me.
Click to expand...

OK, so don't charge her for the shoot but give her a price list for any prints she might want to order from the shoot. That way she pays nothing if she doesn't like them but pays a fair amount for the ones she does.
 
Flashman said:
OK, so don't charge her for the shoot but give her a price list for any prints she might want to order from the shoot. That way she pays nothing if she doesn't like them but pays a fair amount for the ones she does.
Click to expand...

:thumbs::thumbs:
 
Flashman said:
OK, so don't charge her for the shoot but give her a price list for any prints she might want to order from the shoot. That way she pays nothing if she doesn't like them but pays a fair amount for the ones she does.
Click to expand...

:plusone:
 
I did some for a friend of my son and only charged them for the prints they wanted.
They were really pleased with them and gave me a few ££ for doing them. They also have been asked by friends where they had them done as they would like some done :thumbs:
 
Flashman said:
OK, so don't charge her for the shoot but give her a price list for any prints she might want to order from the shoot. That way she pays nothing if she doesn't like them but pays a fair amount for the ones she does.
Click to expand...

That's how I started out, and how a lot of studio's operate with the free shoot, pay for prints (although seems to be reducing during this recession) Their only commitment is time, and if they don't like they don't buy.

For inspiration try to get them outside, park, garden, beach, riverside on a bright winters day, plenty of free light, and something more interesting in the background than a white wall ;)
 
She wants "Something Different" That always scares me when I hear those words. The problem is you don't know what she thinks is normal. A B&W portrait may be be what is considered different, as could be a shoot in the park or even on the Beach

Can I suggest that you sit down with her, and her family if possible and just chat and see what they want. This way you can plan the shoot a lot more easily and they are aware of what is required of them. Also what to wear, they probably haven't even thought of that. Plant that little seed and hopefully you wont get a collection of formal and casual and very casual wear ( don't laugh it's happened :lol:).
 
Thank you for the replies. I think you guys are right, the exsperience is more valuable to me than the money.

I know her quite well we have been working together for 4 years,

Stuart
 
I agree, dont charge for shoot, only for the printing/production cost. if its your 1st ever use this as experience, its also a great confidence booster. If you look at it as a job your obliged to produce business quality work, that gives people "rights". If it turns out bad then you will beat yourself up.
Make sure she knows your just starting out, treat the whole affair as fun. As JasonRS said, get them outside if you dont have a lighting set-up.
Remember treat it as fun, if your scared witless it will show in the shoot.
 
Yardbent said:
If her husband was a mechanic - would you expect a MoT FOC just cos you work with her?
Click to expand...

No, but I might ask if he'd mind looking at it for me, and if he could fix it, ask how much he'd be willing to do it for 'mates rates'.

My OH does all my best friend's tech support and her OH fixes my car when it breaks down. It's mutually agreeable :)

For me it's all about how comfortable the OP will be under pressure.

Around July last year I was asked to shoot a christening of a friend's godson's christening. I didn't know the family, but my friend had seen my pictures, showed them to the family, and they asked if I'd do it.

First 'real' shoot, told them I wasn't a pro, hadn't done a christening before and that if they were happy with the pics, I'd want somewhere in the region of £25 for expenses (petrol, time taken etc). If they weren't happy, they'd pay nothing but would only have access to low quality watermarked web versions (put them on a photobucket page). Also said I'd want to use the pics on my website to build up my portfolio. Took up a whole day, and I sent the pics on CD, she sent back a cheque for £30 saying she loved them and was really grateful. Got my first thankyou letter :)

Something similar might be the way forward for you :)
 
The great thing about this is if I mess it up and every thing comes out underexposed because the lens cap is still on. It doesn't really matter they can just go to a pro. Is not like a wedding or christening.

Stuart
 
this is a different contribution but relevant on the charging side. I build websites (pro) the one thing I always keep in mind is that most clients don't know what they want, but they know what they don't like when they see it. So, if the client is someone I've never even met - like they came to me via the internet, I have a special contract that says either of us can walk away from the job at any time. Yes, I know that leaves me open to doing the job and not getting anything out of it, but I have been doing this long enough to know that sometimes you have to walk away and write off what you have done, otherwise you will throw good time and money after bad. In case anyone's interested no-one has backed out yet, but I've dumped 3 clients :)
 
stu_the_flat said:
The great thing about this is if I mess it up and every thing comes out underexposed because the lens cap is still on. It doesn't really matter they can just go to a pro. Is not like a wedding or christening.
Click to expand...

You're not going to mess up though ;)

Shoot RAW for a safety net, shoot way more shots than you need, and end up with hundreds of shots to thin down to 20 or so good ones.

Remember, it's never "That's not working" it's alway, "we got that, now lets try something different" :)

When you next see her, ask what sort of thing she's got in mind, if she's got some examples of what she's got in mind, you'll know what you're heading for, if she has no idea, but wants something "different" have a few links of stuff you'd like to try shooting and suggest those as examples.
 
Yardbent said:
my first reaction is that you are entering into a "verbal" agreement to provide a service

this should be chargeable IMO - she is "at work" - not family

no fee - will encourage others at work to ask the same "favour"

If her husband was a mechanic - would you expect a MoT FOC just cos you work with her?
Click to expand...

Well pointed out. Just let her know you are not a pro, tell her how much you would like for your time (PP included) then deliver the goods on a CD*. That way there is no further pressure for prints, she has the photos on a CD to do what she will with them. This way, if more work friends want photos done you have an easy system to work with. A set price, a set product.

Although I hate CD's and never provide them, it is a streamlined way of getting your foot in the door and providing a product. Make sure you give them a personal copyright release form too. This way you are protected as well. The masses aren't interested in how well your printer works compared to Joe Bloggs Photography down the road. They want the cheapest prints. Don't bother offering prints IMO. It is too time consuming and costly to print at home.

But back to the point, charge for your time.
 
If she insists on making any payment, tell her 'ok £20 to cover my travel costs
& cd's of the images' just to make her feel better.

Advise them to look at images via Google for some ideas they might want to
try in order to take the pressure of you suggesting poses etc.

Most importantly, tell them to stay casually dressed, relax & have fun.

After the first 20 or so shots they will you will probably find that nerves etc
have been overcome & they will start posing for fun anyway :lol:
 
Once again thank you for all the replies. Its not really the money that bothers me and more the "how to take a good photo", But I guess I will start by buying that book.

Many thanks

Stuart
 
It's moments like these we remember when we look back after a 20 year career in the photography industry and think "Awwwwww what was all the fuss about"

best suggestion don't charge for the shoot but charge for the shots they want printed, excellent starting point.

With groups the trick is to make sure they all have a decent amount of light on them.

Something different, maybe a location shoot, outside light is always good and makes the day enjoyable too.
 
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