What am I supposed to do, Lie ?

[jonbeeza]

Get really fed up when I give my honest opinion, so what should I do lie or tell it how I see it ? Or maybe simply say nothing?

I know I don't submit photos up here or any place else for critic, as the photos are only for myself family and friends and I give them freely. I will however criticize a bad photograph that a friend or family member has had done by a professional, and paid for. I was shown a set of photos by a family member, who said aren't these great, and seriously what do you think of them. In my opinion the faces had very bad blown out highlights, some images looked like luminous pale orang'y red on the skin. So I said so, and the person who had asked me said well I think they are lovely and went off in a huff!

Yes the children in the photos certainly were lovely, just the images were not too good! The photos were taken in a photo studio, as that's the look they were after. Otherwise, I may have been tempted to do the photos for them.

So what do you reckon ?

 

[boyfalldown]

I think being diplomatic in that situation is rather a good skill to have

 

[dancook]

Indeed, you don't need to lie - just point out a positive.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Get really fed up when I give my honest opinion, so what should I do lie or tell it how I see it ? Or maybe simply say nothing?

I know I don't submit photos up here or any place else for critic, as the photos are only for myself family and friends and I give them freely. I will however criticize a bad photograph that a friend or family member has had done by a professional, and paid for. I was shown a set of photos by a family member, who said aren't these great, and seriously what do you think of them. In my opinion the faces had very bad blown out highlights, some images looked like luminous pale orang'y red on the skin. So I said so, and the person who had asked me said well I think they are lovely and went off in a huff!

Yes the children in the photos certainly were lovely, just the images were not too good! The photos were taken in a photo studio, as that's the look they were after. Otherwise, I may have been tempted to do the photos for them.

So what do you reckon ?

People will defend what they buy. Same with anything. Look what happens on here when someone slags off someone else's lens They thought it was great... paid lots of money, and were NOT asking you for your opinion, they were actually just making you look so you could heap praise upon their new purchase... how wise they are.. how wisely they spent their money... how they made the right choice etc. You then give the image a panning, and they take it as you are giving THEM a panning. They chose the photographer, they decided they were good, and they decided to part company with a wedge of cash for them. You slagging off makes them feel stupid because they honestly thought it was great, when here's someone knowledgeable saying it's not.


Be diplomatic. Nod sagely, and just say "Very nice". No skin off your nose. It gets easier after a while. I have to find constructive and positive things to say about crap images on a daily basis... you have have to be constructive though, and not destroy people's confidence. Same here... tread carefully... you can't just slag off something someone's just bought, even if it is crap. Their money, their choice. It's not worth it... just smile, and say "Very nice"

In short... yes. Lie. Like like a boss! People often do NOT want the truth .. they want affirmation they've done the right thing, and they will be selectively deaf to anything else if they've not. That's people for you In all seriousness.... Dan's right.. just speak of the positives only. That's not a lie.. that's merely giving an abridged version of your full assessment

 

[jonbeeza]

I think being diplomatic in that situation is rather a good skill to have

Indeed, you don't need to lie - just point out a positive.

OK I will ask to have another look at the photos, and I will say ( Actually they are quite good really ) yes I suppose I could have done it a little better

 

[jonbeeza]

Be diplomatic. Nod sagely, and just say "Very nice". No skin off your nose. It gets easier after a while. I have to find constructive and positive things to say about crap images on a daily basis... you have have to be constructive though, and not destroy people's confidence. Same here... tread carefully... you can't just slag off something someone's just bought, even if it is crap. Their money, their choice. It's not worth it... just smile, and say "Very nice"

In short... yes. Lie. Like like a boss! People often do NOT want the truth .. they want affirmation they've done the right thing, and they will be selectively deaf to anything else if they've not. That's people for you In all seriousness.... Dan's right.. just speak of the positives only. That's not a lie.. that's merely giving an abridged version of your full assessment

Seeing it from that angle, then yes I certainly do feel I may have been out of order

Hmm reminds of an episode of Red Dwarf, BEEP lie Mode ( Red Dwarf fans will know what I am talking about ) Yes I think I certainly will have to have another look at those photos ...

 

[kendo1]

Think like Thumper.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything.

Or you could lie.

 

[foggy4ever]

My wife always says don't ask to any friends/family that want my opinion, I'm not brutal but I'm open and honest and will always explain my opinions in a positive way.

 

[pjm1]

Hmmm... tricky one. I'm known as not pulling my punches when someone (family/friends) asks for my opinion - so they usually don't! On the other hand, in my job I have to be about as tactful and diplomatic as is humanly possible.

If someone asks for my opinion, I'll usually ask them if they REALLY want my opinion. At which point they'll think and often say, "no - I just want you to agree with me". Which I then do... happily and without complaint.

As others have said, sometimes people just want their ego massaged. Nothing wrong with that - it's usually easier to do it. But when that's what they're hoping for but end up on the receiving end of criticism (even if indirect), they're going to be peed.

I'm about as critical as I can me with myself. I expect others to be likewise with me. Unfortunately most people don't operate like us!

 

[big soft moose]

lol I remember lyntons missus had some shots done and he put them on his facebook - a few of us then ripped them to pieces and our comments got hastily deleted because missus Lynton loves them

 

[Peter69]

I don't give negative feed back unless asked for. Sometimes a subtle 'did your daughter take that' comment can suggest they're not as good as a pro could do without being negative

 

[MWHCVT]

I find its best with none photographer friends to keep it diplomatic and say something about how they look happy etc rather than critique a photo...the majority just don't understand your only talking about the photos not the people in the photos so they get upset...

 

[PatrickO]

Yep, just lie.

 

[simonblue]

I have looked at my friend little one school photos,with that look as they are showed to me,don't you dare say anything

 

[big soft moose]

thing to remember is when a family member says 'tell me honestly...' what they are really saying is 'lie to make me feel good' - whether the rest of the sentence is ...does my bum look big in this , or ... do you like this photograph.

as anyone 'made the mistake of saying "well not compared to a hippo" will know, honesty is not the best policy

 

[MWHCVT]

A classic example I remember was a friend of my cousin she has asked me to shoot here wedding but I was "working" as honestly I've no real inclination to do it for family as its a lot of work let a lone doing it for a friend of a relative...anyways in the end she paid some college photography student a couple of hundred quid, honest opinion would be they were awful, poorly composed, white balance all over the place, OOF, over use of colour popping, telegraph poll right out of the brides head in several group shots...honestly really not even worth it if they had been free....what did I say, "looks like you had a fantastic day" but of course on Facebook if you read the comments from family and friend you'd expect to see some award winning photos...I believe this girl even got additional booking off it....

 

[PatrickO]

thing to remember is when a family member says 'tell me honestly...' what they are really saying is 'lie to make me feel good' - whether the rest of the sentence is ...does my bum look big in this , or ... do you like this photograph.

as anyone 'made the mistake of saying "well not compared to a hippo" will know, honesty is not the best policy

It's like when your OH comes back from the hairdresser and says "what do you think?"
You can either say "Hey, that looks great"... or you can sleep on the sofa.

 

[On the Huh]

You may be describing a studios style/processing. Venture does/did? a very certain style loved by many and was/is? very popular. Not everyone's taste though...Just one of those subjective things.

 

[philthejuggler]

A classic example I remember was a friend of my cousin she has asked me to shoot here wedding but I was "working" as honestly I've no real inclination to do it for family as its a lot of work let a lone doing it for a friend of a relative...anyways in the end she paid some college photography student a couple of hundred quid, honest opinion would be they were awful, poorly composed, white balance all over the place, OOF, over use of colour popping, telegraph poll right out of the brides head in several group shots...honestly really not even worth it if they had been free....what did I say, "looks like you had a fantastic day" but of course on Facebook if you read the comments from family and friend you'd expect to see some award winning photos...I believe this girl even got additional booking off it....

I find this interesting - I did a wedding as a favour for a family member - the shots were really average in my opinion - they hadn't really allowed time for photos, the weather was pants and they didn't like posing for shots. Facebook comments were glowing.

As for the OP - I couldn't lie or even imply I was impressed in that situation - the person in question might then quote me as being impressed with them to others which could bring my own photographic judgement into serious question.

I'd say something like - haven't they got lovely smiles? Are these just proofs? When then questioned further re my comment I'd then say 'Well the shots are lovely, but I think the printing of the colours doesn't do them justice'.

 

[James.H]

A: "aren't these great, and seriously what do you think of them"
Me: "Aww little ______'s smile is really cute"
A: "But what about the photo itself"
Me: "Well... to be honest, they could be a little better... but the photog captured little _______'s smile perfectly!" not.

 

[Pookeyhead]

I don't give negative feed back unless asked for. Sometimes a subtle 'did your daughter take that' comment can suggest they're not as good as a pro could do without being negative

This isn't about giving crit on a photo they've taken/made though. I reckon most people could handle that. This is about slagging something they've bought. People REALLY don't like that. If what they've bought is a photo of their kids, then saying it's crap is the kind of thing that can end friendships with some people.

 

[jonbeeza]

I find its best with none photographer friends to keep it diplomatic and say something about how they look happy etc rather than critique a photo...the majority just don't understand your only talking about the photos not the people in the photos so they get upset...

Yes they obviously thought I was saying the children were not nice, while I was actually giving critic to the photo itself. I did try to explain that, but it was to late damage was already done!

It's like when your OH comes back from the hairdresser and says "what do you think?"
You can either say "Hey, that looks great"... or you can sleep on the sofa.

I always compliment my missus's hair do after it has been done, I always say the choice of colour is superb, and it has been trimmed to perfection. I even joke to her, are you going anywhere nice on holiday lol . The reason for this is because I colour and trim her hair, I did dabble in hairdressing a while back

You may be describing a studios style/processing. Venture does/did? a very certain style loved by many and was/is? very popular. Not everyone's taste though...Just one of those subjective things.

The poses looked ever so false, but I did not knock the poses as this would have been having a go at the kids in the photos. Background and everything was just so white, skin tones looked awful, I personally did not like the style.

This isn't about giving crit on a photo they've taken/made though. I reckon most people could handle that. This is about slagging something they've bought. People REALLY don't like that. If what they've bought is a photo of their kids, then saying it's crap is the kind of thing that can end friendships with some people.

I have now learned, next time I get photos stuck under my nose and asked, seriously what do you think. I will simply say, wow they are some of the best I have ever seen !

 

[jonbeeza]

When bad photos get shown around at gathering, everyone is saying aren't they great and where did you get them done how much were they etc, and getting all excited and giggly. I think to myself, am I the only sane one here, or are they all a bunch of good liars !

 

[Lyope]

When shown a photograph, most people look at the subject, not at the overall image. We are photographers, so we look at the whole thing; framing, light, shade, colour, sharpness, blur, whatever.

There's a lesson here. If your images are technically and artistically great, but your subject sucks, you're still making sh1tty photographs.

Or to quote Gordon Parks, "The subject matter is so much more important than the photographer".

 

[Quicksnapper]

I often have a similar problem. My friend frequently rides her (white) horse at events. As she's pretty good and often does very well / wins, she tends to buy the event pro's images to commemorate the occasion. Fair enough. But she then shows me the pics of her and horsey flying over a jump and asks me my opinion. They always look great as horse and rider, but the event pro's pics always make her horse look like a shapeless white blob. Just can't seem to get the exposure right for some reason. (I suspect it's because they work fast, and expose for the majority of horses which are brown/black or similar darkish shades ... The bright white one throws them a bit.... But then they are supposed to be pros ....!?)

Anyway .... I now say ..."wow, you look great. Well done..." Or similar. Not what I'm actually thinking ...."why does your horse look like a shapeless white blob?.." After all, she wants me to tell her how well they did, not actually crit the image.

I got over this one by going to an event with her and taking some properly exposed shots to show her the difference. ... But omitted to charge her £15 for the prints!!!!..... You could try this with your friend's kids. Do some decent shots of them and give them to the parents. They may prefer yours to the others. (But, in the meantime, say nice things ..... Even if through gritted teeth ....).

 

[ernesto]

I am always honest and blunt (I could blame my aspergers but I know I am doing it so can't fully blame it!)

If you ask for my opinion you get it although I would be clear it is my opinion. They like the photos so that is the only thing that matters here and my opinion would be more around the fact I didn't like certain aspects of the photos and they are not what I would want if they were mine but that doesn't mean they are bad as such (which they can't be if the customer likes them)

 

[jonbeeza]

I often have a similar problem. My friend frequently rides her (white) horse at events. As she's pretty good and often does very well / wins, she tends to buy the event pro's images to commemorate the occasion. Fair enough. But she then shows me the pics of her and horsey flying over a jump and asks me my opinion. They always look great as horse and rider, but the event pro's pics always make her horse look like a shapeless white blob. Just can't seem to get the exposure right for some reason. (I suspect it's because they work fast, and expose for the majority of horses which are brown/black or similar darkish shades ... The bright white one throws them a bit.... But then they are supposed to be pros ....!?)

Anyway .... I now say ..."wow, you look great. Well done..." Or similar. Not what I'm actually thinking ...."why does your horse look like a shapeless white blob?.." After all, she wants me to tell her how well they did, not actually crit the image.

I got over this one by going to an event with her and taking some properly exposed shots to show her the difference. ... But omitted to charge her £15 for the prints!!!!..... You could try this with your friend's kids. Do some decent shots of them and give them to the parents. They may prefer yours to the others. (But, in the meantime, say nice things ..... Even if through gritted teeth ....).

I have taken photos of friends and family and their children, I took them with the Fujifilm XF1 and to be honest I think the photos turned out pretty well. I prefer them to the studio photos they got done, not that I am good at taking photos. I would put that down to the Xf1 producing really good photos, and with a really good skin tone. Plus I did spend a day out with them in the park, and wait till I thought I saw a good photo, with good light and framing etc. But for some reason, they seem to prefer the bright white studio photos.

 

[jonbeeza]

I am always honest and blunt (I could blame my aspergers but I know I am doing it so can't fully blame it!)

If you ask for my opinion you get it although I would be clear it is my opinion. They like the photos so that is the only thing that matters here and my opinion would be more around the fact I didn't like certain aspects of the photos and they are not what I would want if they were mine but that doesn't mean they are bad as such (which they can't be if the customer likes them)

I suppose that's another way to look at it, while refraining from saying well they are not my cup of tea !

 

[Yazman]

A friend of mine showed me her recent wedding photos and they were terrible.
They looked like they had been taken on a vivid ++ setting.
Her and her husband agreed they were "not brilliant" but seemed unwilling to complain.
When I asked how much they had cost I could not believe the bad quality for the amount charged.
I told them if it had been me I would have asked for my money back.
The reply I got was "we don't want to make a fuss" so they are left with their very expensive very poor wedding photos.

 

[The23rdman]

lol I remember lyntons missus had some shots done and he put them on his facebook - a few of us then ripped them to pieces and our comments got hastily deleted because missus Lynton loves them

I remember that.

 

[f/2.8]

I have taken photos of friends and family and their children, I took them with the Fujifilm XF1 and to be honest I think the photos turned out pretty well. I prefer them to the studio photos they got done, not that I am good at taking photos. I would put that down to the Xf1 producing really good photos, and with a really good skin tone. Plus I did spend a day out with them in the park, and wait till I thought I saw a good photo, with good light and framing etc. But for some reason, they seem to prefer the bright white studio photos.

To be honest that reads more like it was you that were upset because they preferred the professionals photographs to yours.

Anyway I don't see the need that photographers of all sorts have to rip each others work to pieces. Photography like everything else comes down to personal taste. For example I don't like the white background Venture type stuff but my wife things it's great. We actually argued over it once because she wanted me to take photographs of our kids in the Venture style and I refused. I can remember saying to her that she knows nothing about photography etc. You know what I was wrong, no she doesn't know anything about photography but you know what she is exactly the sort of customer that would visit places like Venture and be delighted with the result. She is obviously not the only one because places like Venture still get lots of business, there is obviously a market for this style of photography because a lot of people like this style.

When someone shows you a picture of there children they don't care what you think about the technical elements of the photograph or the style and composition, they just want you to tell them how cute there kids are.

Critique is fine somewhere like here were people have posted there images and asked for it. Even here though at times critique can read like a personal attack on the photographer rather than feedback on how to improve. In the real world it's better to have good manners and refrain from making unnecessary comments, especially comments that you know will only upset someone, for no other reason than you wanting to rip apart another photographers work. Why cause distress to a family member unnecessarily? I am not sure what is about photography in particular that causes the need for people to want to argue about what comes down to at the end of the day jealousy or who is best, perhaps photography attracts people with a certain type of ego. I have to put my hands up and say that in times in the past I have been guilty of this myself, but you now what it's just a waste of time.

 

[Techy Guy]

Don't lie .. just be selective with the truth

 

[jonbeeza]

To be honest that reads more like it was you that were upset because they preferred the professionals photographs to yours.

Anyway I don't see the need that photographers of all sorts have to rip each others work to pieces. Photography like everything else comes down to personal taste. For example I don't like the white background Venture type stuff but my wife things it's great. We actually argued over it once because she wanted me to take photographs of our kids in the Venture style and I refused. I can remember saying to her that she knows nothing about photography etc. You know what I was wrong, no she doesn't know anything about photography but you know what she is exactly the sort of customer that would visit places like Venture and be delighted with the result. She is obviously not the only one because places like Venture still get lots of business, there is obviously a market for this style of photography because a lot of people like this style.

When someone shows you a picture of there children they don't care what you think about the technical elements of the photograph or the style and composition, they just want you to tell them how cute there kids are.

Critique is fine somewhere like here were people have posted there images and asked for it. Even here though at times critique can read like a personal attack on the photographer rather than feedback on how to improve. In the real world it's better to have good manners and refrain from making unnecessary comments, especially comments that you know will only upset someone, for no other reason than you wanting to rip apart another photographers work. Why cause distress to a family member unnecessarily? I am not sure what is about photography in particular that causes the need for people to want to argue about what comes down to at the end of the day jealousy or who is best, perhaps photography attracts people with a certain type of ego. I have to put my hands up and say that in times in the past I have been guilty of this myself, but you now what it's just a waste of time.

No, not in the least bit upset what so ever. Just giving my honest opinion of what I thought, although next time I will think more carefully when giving my opinion. Besides I don't have access to a studio with brilliant white backdrops/ background

 

[jonbeeza]

This reminds me of when my ex cooked a certain meal and she asked me what I thought, I said I liked it when in fact I did not. To my horror she then added it to the list of things to cook in future. One day I finally told her I did not like it, she went mad and said why did I lie, and she would rather I told her the truth. On another occasion when the meal she cooked I did not like, I said so straight away, and she went mad again! From then on, when she cooked something I did not like, and she asked what I thought of it, I replied unusual flavours ! That seemed to work, I could see her mind working overtime, as she was trying to work out what I really meant !

As I said that was my ex, and before anyone replies with funny remarks as to why she is now my ex, we just drifted apart ( as they say )

 

[colda]

you have to find the balance, i.e. "your kids look awesome! - I can see some faults in the photography if I'm being completely honest but really, your kids look so great they just shine through regardless"

 

[ancient_mariner]

"They aren't to my taste, but if you like them then that's great" might be my line in this situation, if I HAD to comment on the images. "You looked lovely for that photo" might be another comment I'd use.

Don't lie - just be gently (and economically) truthful.

 

[Yazman]

Don't we all selectively lie !!
Example; we see someone we know proudly pushing a pram along, we stop to congratulate them on their newborn.
Then utter the words " oh what a lovely baby" even though it may well look like a bulldog sucking a wasp.

 

[Ulfric M Douglas]

... so what should I do lie ...

Never tell aunty Florence the photos of Savannah, Chelsea and Linus are anything but lovely!
You have a deathwish?

 

[ianp5a]

This is purely a people question.

• If you know they will react badly and you don't want that, lie or avoid the answer. "That one is a little less sh*t than the others"
• If you are not sure about them, feel the waters: "Did you try shooting against the light..." and see how the reaction is.
• If you are sure they can take it, or you don't care about their reaction, be honest.

 

[Phil V]

Get really fed up when I give my honest opinion, so what should I do lie or tell it how I see it ? Or maybe simply say nothing?

I know I don't submit photos up here or any place else for critic, as the photos are only for myself family and friends and I give them freely. I will however criticize a bad photograph that a friend or family member has had done by a professional, and paid for. I was shown a set of photos by a family member, who said aren't these great, and seriously what do you think of them. In my opinion the faces had very bad blown out highlights, some images looked like luminous pale orang'y red on the skin. So I said so, and the person who had asked me said well I think they are lovely and went off in a huff!

Yes the children in the photos certainly were lovely, just the images were not too good! The photos were taken in a photo studio, as that's the look they were after. Otherwise, I may have been tempted to do the photos for them.

So what do you reckon ?

Lie, change the subject, obfuscate, find a positive.

They've bought something, they're pleased with it, they want your approval as someone who has 'some interest'.

What can you or they possibly gain from you telling them the photo is garbage?

If they ask you for critique of their work, go ahead with the s*** sandwich, that will help them improve.