What camera [system] for me?

Deadhead

Deadhead

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John
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I've had a Panasonic G1 with the two standard zooms for a couple of years now. Its a fine and dandy portable system. I can take it for walks with the dogs in a small Crumpler bag and carry it all day. I take landscapes and some birdy pictures if they come within reach of the 45-200. I also take family and holiday snaps.

I've been doing this photography stuff since I started in the [19]70s with a Zenit B and graduated quickly to a Pentax K1000. Following that it was mostly Nikon stuff although all of that is long gone. Back in the day I did a City & Guilds photography [basic monochrome darkrooming, really] course and had a whole wet-process set up in the spare bedroom.

The thing about Panasonic M4/3 system that I'd most like to improve is the ability to isolate the subject from the background. The lenses I've got are pretty slow and the sensor size gives more depth of field than I'd like.

So I think I'd like to go for a bigger sensor. With the price of the EOS 5D MkII dropping maybe I could stretch to one of them, although it would be a stretch.

But maybe APSC would be good enough. I'd prefer Nikon but given the relative prices [bodies & lenses] I think it would have to be Canon. I've stood in Jessops and fondled various bodies [oo er missus]: the 550D feels light - the 7D feels lovely and the viewfinder seems better [pentaprism] but you're getting the same[ish] sensor as the 550D and paying a lot more for it. I have no plan to do movies and don't see much of a need for a flappy folding screen.

So here's the question for people who've actually lived with these cameras for a while. If I had the 5D and 24-105 [say] would I find myself leaving it at home more of the time after the first flush of new ownership had worn off because of the size and weight? I notice that a number of the ads on ebay specify that the 5D in question has never been taken outside. And anyway would a 5D be overkill for what I do?

If its going to be APSC would the 550D feel a bit toylike what with the light weight and the picture style pictograms on the dial? Or would the 7D with the 17-55 f2.8 and the 70-200 f4 be too heavy too lug about all day?

Any advice or comments gratefully received. Thanks for reading.
 
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If you are happy with the system then why not just invest in faster glass? The Olympus 45mm f1.8, the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 and the panasonic leica 25mm f1.4 spring to mind or even some legacy glass with an adapter.
 
From what you said - 550D too light, 7D is too big - could the "Goldilocks" one be the 50D (or 60D)? Which would fit between the 550D & 7D - have a pentaprism, etc. If you don't like the flappy screen, just fold it back (screen facing out) and ignore that it's flappy. I like that it's flappy because when I'm not using it, it's facing inwards and thus protected and when I occasionally do want to use it, it's a simple job to flip it out.

As for the "toy" pictograms - they've been on most of the EOS cameras I've owned over the last 20 years or so - I don't remember using them ever or indeed even consciously knowing what any of them mean... I'm always in P, Av, Tv, M or B :) You don't get rid of the pictograms until you're spending on the 5D or 7D... heck of a premium to pay for the removal of some inconsequential paint IMO
 
zak5ive said:
If you are happy with the system then why not just invest in faster glass? The Olympus 45mm f1.8, the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 and the panasonic leica 25mm f1.4 spring to mind or even some legacy glass with an adapter.
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That's an option all right. But if I was going to do that I'd probably want to invest in a body with a few more megapixels - G3 say. Or even the Olympus OMD although that seems quite expensive. And that means I'm really buying a whole nother system. And in that case I should really consider all the options.
 
Personally don't find a 7D with the lenses mentioned too heavy for carrying about, just make sure you have a decent rucksack
 
As you have not decided on a particular camera yet and seem happy enough to start a new system have a look at Pentax.

Backwards compatibility with all Pentax lenses from about 1975 and the image stabilisation is in the camera body and the prices are pretty good too just now.

Dave
 
Tringa said:
As you have not decided on a particular camera yet and seem happy enough to start a new system have a look at Pentax.

Backwards compatibility with all Pentax lenses from about 1975 and the image stabilisation is in the camera body and the prices are pretty good too just now.

Dave
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I have thought about Pentax. The kit and prices are certainly tempting. But are they in the DSLR business long-term? I worry that they might not continue to develop and release new SLRs? I suppose that since their mirrorless design takes standard lenses it means that their lens line has a long-term future.
 
I have a 5D2 coupled with a number of L lenses. I went on holiday to the USA last year to visit the S/W area (California, Arizona, Utah, Nevada). I took the 5D2 (and 7D we had at the time). When we got to the cities (SanFran in particular) I locked the cameras in the hotel safe and we just wandered - no camera at all. I was too worried about drawing attention to myself with "look, lots of money in easy to steal equipment". Portability wasn't an issue - we had a car - and this was the USA - you can drive (almost) everywhere.

Fast forward to today. I'm currently in Japan for a business trip (it's 5:30 am here and it's my first night!). I've been before, but many years ago without camera. I bought a GX1 and a couple of lenses to bring with me. No lugging a large body about. No bringing attention to myself, and the pictures are ~80% as good.

Am, I going to sell the 5D2? No. Will it et less use? Maybe, but when I'm out for a day out and don't need to lug the gear around with me for many miles, the 5D2 will go. The next time we go up to London to visit reles, the GX1 will come along. Itr's better than the alternative of no camera.

Horses for courses I think. A couple of fast primes would help you creatively immensely IMHO. I have 3 lenses: 7.5mm Fisheye, 14mm f2.5 and 14-42 kit. The 14-42 kit hardly gets used. Even a new GX1 body is "only" a few hundred if you think that's the limiting factor.
 
Deadhead said:
The thing about Panasonic M4/3 system that I'd most like to improve is the ability to isolate the subject from the background. The lenses I've got are pretty slow and the sensor size gives more depth of field than I'd like.
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With MFT you'll be using much wider lenses than with full frame and indeed also wider than with APS-C. Couple the wider lenses with ho-hum apertures and you get deeper DoF.

You can get around the deeper DoF issue with the wider lenses by either changing your framing and reducing the camera to subject distance or by using a wider aperture but of course it's only the relatively short focal length lenses that have wider apertures. If you're happy enough with a 50mm FoV on full frame you could go for MFT and a 25mm f1.4 or even a f0.95 if you're willing to use a manual lens.

Not much DoF here...

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If you want to stick with a smaller form body there are APS-C CSC's, but they might blow the budget.

I'm not really interested in more mp's myself, 12 seems to be enough for an A3 print.
 
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Sony Nex Series? APS-C sensor but smaller body.

The sony SLTs are also worth a look. The upcoming A57 looks very good and the A65 is quite impressive. In body stabilisation too so any minolta/sony af lens will be stabilised. Same sensors as pentax and nikon use.

I picked up a 7d once. Nearly dropped it! Weighs a flipping ton. Wouldn't like to lug it round at all.

I tend to use a bridge camera if I'm going somewhere where I don't fancy lugging round even a lightish dslr.
 
srichards said:
I picked up a 7d once. Nearly dropped it! Weighs a flipping ton. Wouldn't like to lug it round at all.
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Yes I can understand that. And whilst I might take a 7D out for the first few times maybe it would get left behind after that. Dunno.
 
I'd go with zak5ive on this... get an adapter and a leica fast lens... Probably a few hundred ukp though. No AF, poss no aperture via camera...

If you have any used camera stores near by pop in and handle the bigger camera you mentioned as well as asking about the older lenses.

I have a d300 and its not light, especially compared to the gf3 I bought the wife. I still need to get the adapter so she can use my lenses, but the pancake 20mm f1.7 might do what you need too. Light, small and fast. If you shoot at 20mm setting using the kit lens you can see what you'd get and whether its wide enough.

Since you are asking about canons, try looking for a used 50d or 60d perhaps? In between the 5d/7d/550d... (I'm a nikon user - heh - so not sure exactly of the camera models for canon).

Best thing would be to handle them at a store for a while. Check the menus and controls too.

If you are still unsure, then perhaps see if you can arrange a meet with some local photographers? They may let you handle/play a bit, plus discuss the cameras more?
 
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arad85 said:
Horses for courses I think. A couple of fast primes would help you creatively immensely IMHO. I have 3 lenses: 7.5mm Fisheye, 14mm f2.5 and 14-42 kit. The 14-42 kit hardly gets used. Even a new GX1 body is "only" a few hundred if you think that's the limiting factor.
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Something else worth thinking about. But I'm a viewfinder kind of chap. I find the rear screens difficult to read in bright light. And I've no experience but I suspect that I'd find one of those add-on viewfinder jobbies a bit of a faff. So that limits my m4/3 upgrade choices to the Panasonic G3 (G5) or the Olympus OMD. That said I have seen some pretty decent shots on the web taken with the Panasonic (Leica) 25.
 
Well I've actually made a decision eventually!

I spent a morning last week on the shore of Derwentwater on a quick half day photography experience/course type-thing which my partner had bought me for Xmas. I used the tutor's EOS 40D together with a Sigma 10-20, a 50 1.4 and a 100 2.8 macro. All very good fun. And the wide lens and the macro both gave me the opportunity to take pictures that I've never really spent any time on before. Also the whole kit was pretty easy to carry round in a rucksack.

So... I've just ordered an EOS 5D MkII from the Canon refurbished store for £1253 delivered. Just need to get some lenses now!

BTW even though I didn't actually follow some of the advice I was given on here it doesn't mean that it didn't make me think even harder about what I was going to do. Many thanks to all.
 
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So this is the next question. What lenses to start with?

I need a general town & country walking around lens, something for low light and something that I can use for middle distance birds & wildlife. And I need to be able to carry this stuff around. Could I start with the 24-105 and the 70-200 IS f4, do you think?

Is f4 going to be bright enough long-term? And after a while will I want something wider than 24? Should I investigate the 2x adapter with the 70-200, or just buy a 70-300 in the first place?

Have many people abandoned zooms and moved to primes? Should I go for (say) the 28 1.8, a 50 (which one?) and the 100 macro?

Lot of questions I know but I'd really appreciate a range of views and reasoning.
 
The recon 5D Mk II arrived this morning. Box a bit tatty but camera clean & tidy and all present and correct.

So I went out and bought a 24-105 L f4.

One word. Wow!

Shoulda done this a very long time ago. Can't wait to get out and play properly once this rain stops.
 
If you want the zoom for portraits the 70-200 will work well. If you want it for sports something a little longer would be better perhaps. For nature etc 200 is not really long enough either.
Stick with the lens you have for now, you will naturally come to decide what lens to get next as you discover what you enjoy photographing most, and what factor is limiting you.
 
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