What camera?

littlemonster

littlemonster

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Gemma
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I'm new here but could really do with some advice!

I'm looking to get a DSLR, and have no idea what one I'd make use off, originally was thinking a budget of around £500, allowing for something like the Nikon D5000, but wondering if I'd be doing a lot better to spend more and go for something like the D90? That I could do but it would be a stretch so obviously if it's not needed then I don't want to waste money, but I also don't want to wish I'd bought a better one in 6 months.


I've only used a digital up until now however it does have P A S and M settings and I mostly shoot on A or M, so I do already have some basic knowledge of what changing bits does, but it's quite limited on what it will do.

I take a lot of pictures of insects, small flowers and animals, unfortunately my digital takes ages to focus and has a limited focus range (probably the wrong term for it) so I want something I can do a better job of that with.

I was thinking initially I'd probably need 2 lenses, 1 for general and larger shooting (I gather the 50mm works for that) and 1 that's more suited to smaller creatures and longer distances? But not entirely sure.


Any help gratefully appreciated! :D
 
Hello littlemonster (cracking user name!).

From what you have said then it sounds like you enjoy macro, macro is usually manual focus, not AF. Is this your primary objective or do you want to take pictures of a range of things, i.e. dogs running etc and portraits?
 
Gemma I think the Nikon D5000 should do you just fine, if you have any spare money it could go towards another lens, depending on the nature of what you want to photograph.
 
I agree, the Nikon d5000 will do you just fine, the flippy flappy screen and usable live view mode would be useful for your flower, frog and insect shots, I'd start with th 18-55 kit lens and as you build up your knowledge consider the lens, filter, and tube options for macro.

Good luck

John
 
Both really, I have a few pets including a dog so would like better pictures of those too! It would be my main camera so would be used for memory photos as well as artistic attempts too.

The macro on my camera doesn't work properly and there is no manual focus, so currently getting even a half decent amateur photo of an insect is a lot of hard work! I'm not too worried about learning to use manual focus or anything, I tend to take the dog somewhere quiet and take an hour or 2 to get what I want anyway, learning is part the fun :D


Thanks for the extra replies, does sound like the D5000 will do then, that will definitely make a case and an extra lens or 2 much more affordable!
 
Good decision, the Nikon has the best AF system for moving subjects.
 
Looking at Jessops online, will go in on Friday (in town anyway) and have a proper look.

They have various bundles, some come with Tamron 70-300mm f4-5.6 Di Len - what are Tamrom lenses like compared to Nikon ones?


They have a D5000 kit containing:
* Nikon D5000 with 18-55mm VR Lens
* Tamron 70-300mm f4-5.6 Di Lens (5123012)
* Sandisk Ultra II 4GB SDHC Card (5117636)
* Hahnel EN-EL9a Li-ion Spare Battery (5155886)
* Jessops LCD Screen Protectors (1018659)

For £649

or

* Nikon D5000 with 18-55mm VR Lens
* Tamron 70-300mm Lens (5123012)
* Sandisk Extreme 8GB SDHC Card (5135390)
* Centon Outfit Bag (5124395)

For £669

Both of which seems like good deals, as the Tamron lens is about £150, battery is about £40 etc - are they decent prices though?




They also do the D90 + 18 - 105mm VR lens kit for £779.
 
I got my D5000 from Jessops but would avoid the bundles, they're rarely good value as they seem to whack a fair bit extra on things like memory cards in the first place. I bought it with the same Tamron lens and took it back less than a week later. I found it to be very soft compared to the nikon lens and without any vibration reduction the results were poor when zoomed in. In the end I got the nikon 55-200 which is a huge improvement. I just wish I'd bought the more expensive 18-105 instead of the kit lens as I think its a much more useful range and I'm now looking to get one anyway.
 
If your wanting to pursue macro then you wont get that with these lenses, either go for a dedicated macro lens (expensive, but well worth it, you could try second hand) or use lens addons (cheap, can give good results, but also bad results) for these there are three types:

Close-up filters- little glass piece that screws onto the front of the lens, results in no loss of light so maximum aperature remains the same, however the filters arent as good quality glass as your lens by a mile (generally, few good ones around) so the final images wouldnt be as good quality as you expect from your lens.

Extension tubes- they fit between the body and the lens enabling the lens to focus closer, so this shouldn't degrade the quality of the lens, however the extra distance does mean a bigger image circle is created so any imperfections in the lens such as softness will be amplified (only by a little bit mind) also, a bigger issue is that they also reduce the maximum aperture as the light is scattered more. These can be cheap but those versions have no way of maintaining contact between the body and lens as far as i know so your either stuck with maximum or minimum aperature depending on the version, and you would have to do all the metering manually but since you've said that you use manual mode a fair bit thats not really going to be an issue. More expensive versions will maintain the lens contacts so are much more user friendly.

Last type is reversing rings, they screw into the filter ring on the front of the lens allowing it to be mounted onto the lens the opposite way. These dont affect the aperature or affect image quality, but because they maintain a fixed distance between the lens and the body, there is a fixed focal point, however huge magnifications can be obtained with wide angle lenses producing a greater magnification when reversed. (anyone correct me here if im wrong) the use of bellows can give you flexibility with the whole focal point issue and will change the magnification (bellows can be used instead of extension rings as well, again gives more flexibility). however with these again you've lost contact between the lens and the body so you'll either have to stick with minimum aperature or hold the aperature control lever yourself with a spare finger, not ideal really, but its a cheap alternative to an expensive macro!

Hope this helps you or anyone else in someway!

hope that gives you
 
Hmmmm for now I was more thinking of concentrating on zoom capability, get used to the camera and maybe get a macro lens in a couple of months?

As well as the Tamron there's also either:
Nikon 55-200mm f/4-5.6 AFS G (Black) @ £179.00
Nikon 55-200mm f/4.-5.6 AFS DX VR Lens (Black) @ £239.00

Not sure if it'd be that much different from the Tamron, also if the VR really makes much difference - I haven't the steadiest hand!
 
Hold off on those lenses Gemma.

tamron 70-200 is not image stabilised and not recommended.

55-200 VR should be around £140- £150 and is a fab lens (we use them)

John
 
VR is great, will save you some shots without a doubt, even the steadiest of hands on a cold day will shake the camera. However it is worth noting to disable is when using high shutter speeds or using a tripod because it does unnecessary work and can affect the image quality in a bad way, but slow shutter speeds, its great
 
phototuition said:
Hold off on those lenses Gemma.

tamron 70-200 is not image stabilised and not recommended.

55-200 VR should be around £140- £150 and is a fab lens (we use them)

John
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The cheapest I can find it is on amazon for £210!

Well bar Ebay, but if I'm honest while I love ebay, I'm not so sure about buying such a generously priced piece of equipment from on there? :thinking:
 
littlemonster said:
The cheapest I can find it is on amazon for £210!

Well bar Ebay, but if I'm honest while I love ebay, I'm not so sure about buying such a generously priced piece of equipment from on there? :thinking:
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I use the 55-200mm VR Gemma and it has been a terrific servant for my longer shots. Mine was £120 delivered off this forum and I've seen two go in recent weeks for around £120/£130 in mint condition. A little patience and I'm sure one will crop up in the classifieds. :thumbs:
 
Just to be awkward (I am a lot)...

I'm still looking at the D90, would the 18-105mm lens that comes with it be a good starting lens? It says that's a 5.8x zoom so should be fine for wildlife shots..

Plus I can buy the lenses that need the camera to AF them which are cheaper... :D
 
littlemonster said:
Just to be awkward (I am a lot)...

I'm still looking at the D90, would the 18-105mm lens that comes with it be a good starting lens? It says that's a 5.8x zoom so should be fine for wildlife shots..

Plus I can buy the lenses that need the camera to AF them which are cheaper... :D
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The 18-105mm will be a good starting lens in that it covers a wide range of focal lengths. It won't be remarkable in terms of optics compared to two lenses spanning the same focal lenghts but you do have a good kit lens with which to start toying around with the camera. After a while, you'll realise what end of the range you need to extend - for wildlife shots it'll be the longer lengths. :thumbs:

This is a handy little tool for seeing what focal lengths will achieve in terms of 'zooming' on the image. For wildlife shots, you'll find most people here use focal lengths upwards of 300mm - but that's dedication (and too much money!) for you. :thinking:

I have up to 200mm on my camera and find it isn't quite close enough to get those close-up shots of animals but it allows me to experiment a little bit with wildlife shots. Sigma do a well-regarded 70-300mm lens which can be had second-hand for under £150 (make sure it's the Sigma 70-300mm APO DG).

And don't worry about being awkard. I must have posted 30 times on this site before I chose (or was persuaded) which camera to buy. It's a lot of money so it's invaluable that you have as much advice as possible before buying. :thumbs:
 
:D Thanks!

I've been looking at 2nd hand lenses, it appears I could pick up the Nikon 55 - 200 lens fairly cheap, or even a 2nd hand 70 - 300 for not too bad - and from what Ive read as obviously animal shots tend to be high shutter speeds and ISO (may have that wrong things..) the VR doesn't come into play as much anyway.

I sort of see the lenses as an investment anyway, they seem to hold prices surprisingly well.
 
The Tamron 70-300 is crap, that's why they try enticing it onto you by offering it at £99 with an SLR.
The Sigma 70-300 APO is a much better lens, with a 1:2 macro function too which although isn't fantastic it works well and will produce acceptable results a newbie would be happy with for the money.

Buying a 2nd hand body would give you more budget for better lenses. Something to think about.
 
I recently bought the 55-200 Nikon with VR and wouldn't be without it (Buyacamera.co.uk £139.99). The VR is a must, your dog won't be around your feet when you want to catch it running :)
Also found the stock 18-55 great for pet portraits.
 
I'd prefer a brand new body really, I'd like a newish camera and they don't seem to come up 2nd hand a lot anyway, plus there's the advantage of a warantee.

I was talking about a Nikon 70-300 one or something similar if I think I'll make use of it in a few months :)
 
littlemonster said:
I'd prefer a brand new body really, I'd like a newish camera and they don't seem to come up 2nd hand a lot anyway, plus there's the advantage of a warantee.

I was talking about a Nikon 70-300 one or something similar if I think I'll make use of it in a few months :)
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I hear you. Most of the main online retailers offer warranties on their 2nd hand gear.
http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/us...l-slr-cameras/used-canon-digital-slr-cameras/

It's worth a look. I've bought from MPB a few times over the last 2yrs and all the gear is still going strong.

Best thing to do is go to the shops and try the cameras out for yourself before commiting. Me personally, i'd sooner save £150 on a new D5000 and put that towards a better lens than the kit one. But if its peace of mind you really need, buy on the High Street, you'll just have to pay a premium for it.

Al
 
littlemonster said:
I'd prefer a brand new body really, I'd like a newish camera and they don't seem to come up 2nd hand a lot anyway, plus there's the advantage of a warantee.

I was talking about a Nikon 70-300 one or something similar if I think I'll make use of it in a few months :)
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I hear what you're saying. I opted for a brand new Nikon D40 and I think that there is some sense in buying a new camera as opposed to a second-hand camera as, even though it's slightly more expensive, it's "new"! ;)

I just think now that almost everything I want to buy is a lens or an accessory and I have no real desire to upgrade my camera body. So, speaking from a position of where you are plus a couple of years, I'd definitely pay heed to those who say lenses is where the sense is. :thumbs:
 
Ok I didn't realise I could potentially get a professional grade camera for a consumer price.. that's definitely worth thinking about!

Will be going in to a couple tomorrow so I can have a look and feel of a few, see what I like!
 
Don't be dismissive of the other brands, Olympus, Canon, Sony etc all produce very good beginner models. Best advice is try a couple of different camera bodies and see which 1 you feel comfortable holding and changing settings, camera ergonomics is important.

Probably best to start out with 1 lens and a body, as mentioned, the kit lenses ain't worth the plastic their made of....so perhaps buy lens separate.

New camera body and 2nd hand lens, or both if your budget is restrictive. Other 2nd hand retailers are Park Camera's, ffordes, Mifsuds, London Camera Exchange and the 1 mentioned above.

As for lenses. Tamron 90mm f2.8 (£350) is probably one to look at as a dedicated macro lens, although you can use extension tubes or close-up filters as mentioned above.

A wildlife lens, it really depends what you want to take images of, but most are longer than 300mm. The sigma budget zooms like the 150-500mm are popular as they are affordable, but you're still talking £500-1000 for a reasonable zoom for wildlife.
 
Well I went in today, and held a couple.

The canons felt wrong, wasn't keen on the specs of the other makes... held the D90, it was beautiful. Then I made the fatal error of holding the D300. Oh my god it's beautiful!

Loved everything about it, so so easy to use, the menus were better layed out..

So on that note, my budget is having a... readjustment, as I still really want a brand new body :D On a completely separate note, I've decided my 2 year old phone works perfectly well and I don't need an iPhone. :lol:


Going to go in tomorrow and see what the smaller camera shop can do deal wise, may take a couple of days for them to get 1 there but they seem to be quite flexible, will see what they can do, may be able to get 1 of their 2nd hand lenses cheaper or such.

Upside is if I get good enough to go pro I've got a camera that will handle it! :D
 
New Camera bodies are nice, loads of new functions and gizmo's to play with, but the best thing to invest money in is lenses. If you get good glass, not only will the images look better, it will last, hold its value and not be replaced 2 years later by the next new version. Don't be blinded by new and shiny....

You gone from D5000 and lenses for £500, limited budget to a £1100 camera body with no lens....so almost tripling your budget....

Personally, have a look at MPB, they have 2 D300 for £750 and a Nikon 105mm macro lens for £500, I'm sure the other 2nd retailers have similar items for sale, the guy's at park camera are very good, they have a 105mm macro lens for £380, there are deals out there.
 
To be honest, I'll have years to invest in lenses, this may be the only time for a while I can get the camera I really want - £500 is easier to find than £1200 in 1 go.

Even the higher priced on MPB has 30,000 actuations, which a google search has told me is probably between 1/4 and 1/3 of its life, plus I'll be getting the D300S as opposed to the D300, which has actually got a few extra features which I may make use of.

Plus I'd be very shocked if I want to replace it with the newer model in a year or 2, I'm a keep it until it dies type of person, my current camera is 6 years old! :D
 
A D300 shutter life is 150,000 actuations, 30,000 = just run in

If you do go for the D300s, PM Stuart at Digital Depot, he's a member of TP, he might be able to do you a deal on the camera....
 
Completely abstract from this issue, the sales person in Jessops (who didn't seem to know much) said you need a UV filter to protect the lens - I can't see anywhere else saying it's necessary, just want to confirm if it was sales blurb?
 
littlemonster said:
Completely abstract from this issue, the sales person in Jessops (who didn't seem to know much) said you need a UV filter to protect the lens - I can't see anywhere else saying it's necessary, just want to confirm if it was sales blurb?
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Sales blurb. :nono:

A lot of people put UV filters over their lenses to stop the lens cracking if it's dropped but a lens hood will offer you more protection at a fraction of the price and without degrading the image quality in the same way that cheapo plastic filters would. :thumbs:
 
Astraeus said:
Sales blurb. :nono:

A lot of people put UV filters over their lenses to stop the lens cracking if it's dropped but a lens hood will offer you more protection at a fraction of the price and without degrading the image quality in the same way that cheapo plastic filters would. :thumbs:
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I thought as much, within 5 minutes of playing I knew how to do everything on the camera he seemed able to - he did say he was a cannon user but surely working in a camera shop you'd make yourself as least basically knowledgable about the main cameras? :lol:
 
Well I went back in today, my decision was settled when I saw a Sigma 135-400mm APO thingy majiggy lens at £395, and realised no way could I afford a lens even half that good with a D300.

So today I bought a D90 (£800), the above lens for £395 and a camera bag (£49.99 but he knocked it down to £45), and he also chucked in a 4gb memory card and a UV filter for the 18-105 lens that comes with the camera (the big lens comes with a UV filter, bag etc). I know I could've got it cheaper online but the service was great and I was pleased, plus I've got 2 half decent lenses and such for £200 less than I was going to spend, which leaves me some for a spare battery or 2.
 
littlemonster said:
Well I went back in today, my decision was settled when I saw a Sigma 135-400mm APO thingy majiggy lens at £395, and realised no way could I afford a lens even half that good with a D300.

So today I bought a D90 (£800), the above lens for £395 and a camera bag (£49.99 but he knocked it down to £45), and he also chucked in a 4gb memory card and a UV filter for the 18-105 lens that comes with the camera (the big lens comes with a UV filter, bag etc). I know I could've got it cheaper online but the service was great and I was pleased, plus I've got 2 half decent lenses and such for £200 less than I was going to spend, which leaves me some for a spare battery or 2.
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:thumbs:

Glad to see you're sorted. That's a beast of a lens, you'll have no problems getting in close for wildlife photos with that one. One thing though Gemma is that you'll now certainly need a tripod for it all as that lens must weigh a bit and you'll need the stillness for long focal lengths.

I reckon that extra £200 should be for a very good tripod and a shutter release cable. The forums are full of recommendations for both, I'm not. :shrug:
 
Nah, I don't find it too heavy at all :) Obviosuly it is a big beast but I'm actually steadier holding a bit weighter (my shots with your little 3 gram digis you get now have more camera shake than picture!) The camera is surprisingly well balanced with it on actually! And have taken a few half decent shots at full zoom (half decent by my standards, and mostly inexperience causing problems!). Definitely a beautiful lens!

I think it must have something like VR on it though, else I'm sure I'd be getting more wobble!
 
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