i can understand the thread being re cameras - not users..... my point was a camera is only as good as the user.... the highest spec ultra doodah camera with a 2 year at the controls will be worse than an adult with a compact - so pro camera/ non pro camera goes out the window pretty quick without combining the user....
What differentiates a Profesional camera from a Consumer one?
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What's stupid about matching the D7000 ISO noise and then increasing resolution by 50%?!
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We could have had less noise at the same resolution, maybe? certainly more desirable for me
That way around though, would definitely be less marketable.
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We could have had less noise at the same resolution, maybe? certainly more desirable for me
That way around though, would definitely be less marketable.
....I don't think the people that buy the D3200 will do so because it has less noise than the D7000 and why would Nikon make it harder to market the D7000 successor?
How about taking a 300mm lens and giving it a tele to get to 400mm? That's essentially what the D3200 is over the D7000 and that is definately worth a lot.
I'm sure the D7000 successor will have slightly better ISO, I wouldn't hope for much though since the D7000 is only 1/3 of a stop better than the D90.
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How many megapixels do you need on an ultra clean file?
Most pro's said they had enough at 8
At 20 they could shoot landscape for images they intended to crop to portrait
I'll bet that was limited at higher ISO's - If I could get a clean 12800 file at 8mp I'd be happy.
It's odd that the marketing department at Nikon started chasing Megapixel counts at the same time Canon decided that it was no longer important.:nuts:
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What could they have done with the noise by keeping the 16mp on the new sensor that is a generation newer?
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And having a 24mp camera cheaper than a 16mp D7000... ? if anything that's worse and makes the D7k obsolete.
MP is strongly marketable to new photographers, clean high ISO isn't, though with slow kit lenses it's something those at the bottom of the scale need that much more than MP and they don't even know it yet. But you couldn't sell that very easily.
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Hah! on my 5D Mk2 I've ended up doing this couple of times!
I saw a presentation by a successful 'wedding studio' who basically trained their photographers to shoot loose and landscape because they could crop any shape image they wanted from a 5d II file.
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Sorry, but that's a tad idiotic and obvious thing to state - in the context being discussed, it's fair to presume the user is a constant, not a variable.
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Phil V said:
Not a complete surprise. I recall Canon and Nikon pushing pixel count higher and higher on their 'pro' compacts at the expense of picture quality. Sense finally prevailed and pixel density reduced. Can't help but think something like this will unfold.
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People are never satisfied. If they can't moan about MP they'll moan about noise.
I really don't understand why so many photographers are frowning upon more megapixels.
What have canon and Nikon done with pretty much every new camera recently?!
Uped the MP and reduced ISO noise. Still people complain. What can they do to please people?!
I think the 3200 sensor is great and matching the D7000 for ISO is a great achievement.
Can't multiquote on phone but as for making the D7000 obselete... isn't a successor due anyway??? What are they going to do, hold off until they are finished on production on that model and lose out on sales for the D3200?
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Interesting that they're allowing it in NPS consideration. It really is just built like a consumer camera, but with a FX sensor.
As Phil V says..
And it's obvious because it's so obviously true.
Precisely this.
I'm going to have a pop at making photography my primary source of income this year and I'm grateful that I have a Nikon Pro camera to start with. Even though it's yeeeears old, a crop-sensor D2x with about 100K actuations, I'm totally confident that it's not going to let me down until long after I've earned enough and funded my next pro body. Next stop, body-wise, will be a D3 or if I get really lucky a D3s.
What I don't ever want to do is have my camera (or any pivotal component) fail on me while I'm being paid to shoot. I can't think of anything worse. That's why, for me, it has to be a body that Nikon describes as a Pro body. As much as I can afford of the money I earn will first be ploughed into Pro-ifying the rest of my kit, adding redundancy as well. Good quality equipment - and by good quality, I mean dependable, sturdy, well-built and reliable - has to be the foundation of a professional photographer, surely? You can only guarantee professionalism by turning up with a professional workforce, or workhorse.
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We're more or less on the same page Phil, except Canon appear to have quit the megapixel race years ago. They pushed much harder than Nikon for years, but now they've decided not to bother. The 5d mk II was launched in 2008, and the resolution hasn't increased in the replacement camera, the 1ds mk III was launched in 2007 and has a higher res than its current replacement.
Meanwhile Nikon leapfrogged them, but who knows what both of them will choose to do next?
Lot of circles being gone around here.......
My take based on my experience for shooting day in day out 5 days a week.
We have a small canon 550 it overheats after being on for an hour or so keeps working but gets a flashing symbol, its not built for the job.
The mk2's which have both been dropped are both clicking away, never missed a beat, built for the job of continuous hard work.
If a pro tog could get away with a £300 then why spend 1000's I for one am not an equipment junkie and would gladly use consumer stuff, fact is in a commercial and professional environment they simply would not last.
The real question I think, is what's the high end pro stuff bring to the table, is a 1dx worth the difference of a, 6d or 5dmk?
My take based on my experience for shooting day in day out 5 days a week.
We have a small canon 550 it overheats after being on for an hour or so keeps working but gets a flashing symbol, its not built for the job.
The mk2's which have both been dropped are both clicking away, never missed a beat, built for the job of continuous hard work.
If a pro tog could get away with a £300 then why spend 1000's I for one am not an equipment junkie and would gladly use consumer stuff, fact is in a commercial and professional environment they simply would not last.
The real question I think, is what's the high end pro stuff bring to the table, is a 1dx worth the difference of a, 6d or 5dmk?
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And if everything came down to the number of pixels, that would be true, but interface, build quality, Auto Focus, high ISO capability etc, the things that people have mentioned come into it. And anyone buying a camera should be taking all these things into account for their intended use. If you need the build quality and durability of components because you are using the camera(s) every day, then a 600D or a D3200 may not be up to the job, no matter how many pixels they may have.
For the general consumer, more megapixels sell. Those who know a bit more are looking at a range of features to match their needs, and pixels may need be top of the list.
If you are thinking of buying a new camera, you have to ask yourself why? What can this camera not do for me? If you're a Pro, how is the camera I have now harming, or holding back my business? :shrug: Most of us have gear lust, but if you are a Pro, without another form of income, the gear has to justify and pay for itself.
If it's a hobby, and you have the money, then get what you want and enjoy it.
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Well folks, I thank you for taking the time to ponder my question and put your views forward. As always, I'm grateful for your points of view and will add them to my musings as I ponder the way forward 