What do you think?

KD24

KD24

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5
Name
Kris
Edit My Images
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Hello all,

This is my first post here on talk photography, and I am seeking some advice...

I have always enjoyed photography and have usually been a professional "Point & Shoot'er", I have some experience of professional shoots also.


In recent years photos have received a fair amount of interest from colleagues, and now they are being used on the website, social media and training/course materials for a new client.

The client is relatively new within my industry; however, they already enjoy an international presence and have a clear Global development plan in place.

  • Should I be invoicing for the use of my photos? (Images are taken while I am deployed for the client, and there are no specifics around "photo rights" and or/use within our contract)
  • Do you charge per photo used, or should I be done in batches, i.e. after each deployment?
  • Would you back date usage fees? 2021-2022?
  • or simply should I just be chuffed people like my photos and carry on pointing and shooting?

Thank you in advance!

KD
 
I guess the client is paying for other aspects of their business - website, mailserver, course materials, location rental if the training is in person and so on? If so, why should the images be supplied for free?

It seems like you're on the back foot as you've already made the images available, so you need to meet and reset and come to mutually agreeable terms going forward, possibly with a catch-up if your client is feeling generous. I would search on stock photo sites to get a guide on the pricing as that is your client's other main option to source images.
 
Is the client employing you to take pictures for them while deployed, or are you taking pictures in your own time with no expectation for them of photos?

Calling @DemiLion
 
TimHughes said:
I guess the client is paying for other aspects of their business - website, mailserver, course materials, location rental if the training is in person and so on? If so, why should the images be supplied for free?

It seems like you're on the back foot as you've already made the images available, so you need to meet and reset and come to mutually agreeable terms going forward, possibly with a catch-up if your client is feeling generous. I would search on stock photo sites to get a guide on the pricing as that is your client's other main option to source images.
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Thanks Tim
 
ancient_mariner said:
Is the client employing you to take pictures for them while deployed, or are you taking pictures in your own time with no expectation for them of photos?

Calling @DemiLion
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There was no original expectation to take photos while deployed, things have occurred naturally over time and now the photos are being used for content and other company advertising/delivery purposes.

For future deployments, I would seek to introduce a "photography" line item but again I wouldn't really know where to start with that costing - also while deployed my primary focus needs to be the role I am there to do and not solely on photography.
 
Please bear in mind that TP is UK centric forum and AFAIK the sort of question/dilemma that you describe could be affected/influenced by where you live e.g UK vs USA and then comes down to your employment contract. In other words you might need legal advice (employment & IP rights and copyright???)

Oh, sorry manners ~ Welcome to TP :)
 
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Box Brownie said:
Please bear in mind that TP is UK centric forum and AFAIK the sort of question/dilemma that you describe could be affected/influenced by where you live e.g UK vs USA and then comes down to your employment contract. In other words you might need legal advice (employment & IP rights and copyright???)

Oh, sorry manners ~ Welcome to TP :)
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Very good point.
Many employers will have a clause in their contract to the effect that the copyright of any work you do in the course of your employment with them is their property.

I had a similar problem with a council jobsworth concerning software I had written in 2003.
I believe things have changed in certain respects since then, but it is worth checking on as suggested.
 
Box Brownie said:
Please bear in mind that TP is UK centric forum and AFAIK the sort of question/dilemma that you describe could be affected/influenced by where you live e.g UK vs USA and then comes down to your employment contract. In other words you might need legal advice (employment & IP rights and copyright???)

Oh, sorry manners ~ Welcome to TP :)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply, I am Glasgow based, the client is Dublin based with the majority of work/photos being taken on tasks in the middle east.
 
Sangoma said:
Very good point.
Many employers will have a clause in their contract to the effect that the copyright of any work you do in the course of your employment with them is their property.

I had a similar problem with a council jobsworth concerning software I had written in 2003.
I believe things have changed in certain respects since then, but it is worth checking on as suggested.
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100% nothing within the contract terms (Yet),
 
You have established that your employer is allowed access the images you have produced and use of them without further payment/wages.

Therefore by precedent you have established that you taking the images in the normal course of your employment.

Therefore, without further contractual arrangement, the employer is the first owner of copyright of these images and free to do whatever rhey wish with them.


That is the problem with placing no value on photography. It takes you in to places in the world of copyright that you would really rather not be.
 
Sangoma said:
Many employers will have a clause in their contract to the effect that the copyright of any work you do in the course of your employment with them is their property.
Click to expand...

There's no requirement for contratual clauses. It is written in statute law.

I had a similar problem with a council jobsworth concerning software I had written in 2003.
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So they were doing their job then? Sacrifice of IP rights in IT is standard practice for both employees and contractors.

The difference is that it happens with employees automatically.

II believe things have changed in certain respects since then, but it is worth checking on as suggested.
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You believe wrongly.
 
DemiLion said:
There's no requirement for contratual clauses. It is written in statute law.



So they were doing their job then? Sacrifice of IP rights in IT is standard practice for both employees and contractors.

The difference is that it happens with employees automatically.



You believe wrongly.
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No, not at all, they were taking a fat chance, I had written it years before I joined them :)

They (or at least one trouble maker) had only asked me where had got it from, and I told him I had written it, he didn't bother to check all the facts, and at the time not knowing what he was like, answering him had no meaning to me apart from just giving a straight answer to his question.

My reason for stating I thought it had changed was mainly to reinforce the suggestion made that he should check, perhaps you should expand a bit if you are in fact an expert, so that it does not just appear to be another opinion :)
 
So basically completely irrelevant to what we are discussing here then?

Right ho.
 
Sangoma said:
.. perhaps you should expand a bit if you are in fact an expert, so that it does not just appear to be another opinion :)
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I think that my credentials regarding the advice that I offer have been pretty well established by now without having to repeat things.
 
@KD24 are your “deployments” as a freelancer or as an employee?

@DemiLion in relation to the images, does it make a
difference if the contractual relationship is freelance vs employment?
 
DemiLion said:
You have established that your employer is allowed access the images you have produced and use of them without further payment/wages.

Therefore by precedent you have established that you taking the images in the normal course of your employment.

Therefore, without further contractual arrangement, the employer is the first owner of copyright of these images and free to do whatever rhey wish with them.


That is the problem with placing no value on photography. It takes you in to places in the world of copyright that you would really rather not be.
Click to expand...

I get the *impression* that the OP has been taking the photos without being directed to do so by either his employer or the client. If so I would think the thing to do is just to stop taking (or providing?) the photos and see what offer or instruction is made.
 
sphexx said:
I get the *impression* that the OP has been taking the photos without being directed to do so by either his employer or the client. If so I would think the thing to do is just to stop taking (or providing?) the photos and see what offer or instruction is made.
Click to expand...


He may have started doing that but by handing the images over for company use, he has established a precedent for their use.

However, unless photography is listed as a required task in his job description, there is no reason why he should keep doing it.
 
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