What do you want from the professionals?

ZoZo said:
I am not interested in battles and fights, I have a business to run, but I am also happy to share my knowledge, for free, even though I run workshops for money. So it would be really useful to know, do those of you new/newer/amateurs/aspiring professionals actually want to know what things are like from a professional perspective, as it would appear that whenever a professional shares their experiences, particularly in relation to weddings, attacks start to happen.

As I say, I'm just not interested in that line, so if all that people want is the fight I know not to bother to share on anything at all to do with weddings. But if there are those of you that are interested, maybe you could let us know if you are after the professional perspective?

Any help and guidance from those that seek advice, rather than from those who are not professionals who dish out the advice, would be gratefully received so that I can ensure that I am not part of the unpleasantness that I have no desire to part of.

TIA
Zoe
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Just noticed this thread... interesting and puzzling...

ZoZo, I write a diary (of sorts) on TP about my experiences as a pro magazine photographer. If someone wants to read it then they can; if they don't they can click on the next thread. Don't beat yourself up about whether people are interested in what you write - just write it and see who pitches in :)
 
zoom said:
This raises an interesting point.

I recently contacted a certain person advertising photography training and asked about their qualifications. It turned out that they had almost the exact same qualifications as the ones my wife has. (My wife knows nothing about cameras but she has a BA, and an MA in education and she is highly qualified to teach any number of business related subjects. All very well but you wouldn't want her to show you how to use a camera)

Judging from their website, the person advertising the course seems highly competent and she is qualified to teach but she still doesn't have an actual photography qualification.

I know a lot of people will say that a photography degree doesn't necessarily make you a better photographer than someone who's just highly experienced with cameras but it matters to me that people who are teaching me have gone through the correct training. I expect them to not just know as much as me but to know far, far more or I feel I'm wasting my time and money. There's a bloke down the road who drives his car rather well but if I was 17 and about to learn how to drive, would I go to a trained driving instructor or to him?
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Don't agree with any of your last paragraph at all.

Just because I have a certificate does not make me better, this is half the problem with the 'pro v amateur' spat.

There are certain 'time served' togs and some that want to use the theory of mathematics to use a camera, all are different in their own way but all are useful with a camera.
 
Is it only I that finds threads like totally bizarre.................:shrug:


Weddings and portraits, the most insecure photographic style going.Some, and I mean some, should have a good look at themselves.
 
Diego Garcia said:
Good stuff, went for a coffee with Dan and mentioned your desire.

Hope it works out, get in there whilst your a young man (y):D
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Yes Dan has been fantastic, I've a lot to thank him for!! :D

Cheers.. hopefully all my hard work will pay off (y):)
 
I've just noticed this thread.

The word of a pro vs and amature depends what you want to know. If it's about the business of selling pictures then the pros word means a lot. If it's about the "art" of taking pictures then both can be equally as valid a point.

Amatures can be just as good as pros but just not have the desire to make photography a full time career. Because photography can be self-learnt to a large extent, unlike say being a doctor, just because someone does something full time doesn't make them any more of an expert. Pros have a point to some extent when they are protective of what they have because with amazing quality gear now being fairly affordable it's much easier for someone to leach themself how to do it.
 
Live and let live.

I as a pro only have one beef with part-time or week end warriors.

Charge the same price as the pros!!! You are doing the same amount of work as the full timer so Charge it!!!!

Doing all that work and then knocking the price £3-400 quid is taking the Pee.

you work the same hours and do all the post work, so charge the going rate. you're worth it!
 
tiler65 said:
Don't agree with any of your last paragraph at all.

Just because I have a certificate does not make me better, this is half the problem with the 'pro v amateur' spat.

There are certain 'time served' togs and some that want to use the theory of mathematics to use a camera, all are different in their own way but all are useful with a camera.
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Tom, I actually stated that having a degree in photography didn't make you a better photographer than someone who hasn't got one. I'm simply saying that to sell courses in the subject, I feel that a series of generic teaching qualifications may not be sufficient. The flipside of this is that I've worked with massively experienced shooters who, I suspect, don't have a single qualification to their names, and I've learnt tons from them.

If you were having a full rewire done in your home and you didn't know an electrician how would you go about selecting one? Would you favour a guy down the pub who your mate said was a handy spark or would you prefer a guy fully trained with all the correct qualifications? The guy down the pub might be the greatest electrician in the county but he might only know the same about wiring as you do. The guy with the qualifications has at least gone some way to proving his knowledge by passing exams. (Ideally, you'd like a bloke who's not only qualified but also comes recommended)

Perhaps I see this very differently to others because I know that my wife has not only a BA and an MA in her specialist field but she also has a lengthy background in running businesses and training. If I was seeking to send a member of my staff to gain a ILM or an ISMM qualification, this is the sort of background I'd be expecting from the person training them rather than simply someone with general teaching certificates.

When I started using TP, I didn't even consider the pros/amateur thing. I just took TP at face value: in other words, a wonderfully handy forum crammed with enthusiastic shooters from all backgrounds and of varying standards. I was pleasantly surprised to find that pro shooters used the site. It doesn't intimidate me to have pros here and their input gives a valuable and different perspective on things.
 
MarkyP said:
I know a Soldier, who just happens to take photos for the Army. The Army supply his equipment, pay for his training but first and foremost he is a Soldier. If it came down to the wire and the doo doo hit the fan, he would put down his camera, pick up his SA80 and be a soldier. Now this particular Soldier is rather good at what he does. He photographs everyone from VIP's down to the private grunt on the ground. He has had many many images published and I believe is up for some awards. He is though a Soldier, he gets paid to be a Soldier, and receives no financial gain or renumeration whatsoever for taking photographs.

So he receives no payment for taking photographs and I would like to be there if anyone was to tell him he wasn't a Professional.

He would take you down a dark alleyway and batter you round the head with a trusty D3s with a 70-200 attached :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:.
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I have no idea who this might be...:thinking:
 
Arkady said:
I have no idea who this might be...:thinking:
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Not one person said that the "Soldier" wasn't a professional. I think the fear of having a 300mm f2.8 inserted where a 300mm f2.8 shouldn't be inserted was enough of a deterrant :LOL::LOL:

Hope you are well Rob :)
 
Hi Zoey .... and the numerous pro's and amateurs on this forum. I am looking to get into Wedding Photography (mainly of an asian format). I have been taking photos for what seems to be a lifetime on various cameras, moving to the DSLR world a couple of years ago. I have tinkered with editing and putting together DVDs of videos and photos for family and friends (all for free / favours).

What are the main things I should concentrate on to get a foothold into what seems a relatively dense and experienced market ?
I have been looking to photograph as an assistant and looking at some courses that have mock weddings, post production agendas.

Any information would be much appreciated.
 
Very weird thread (and since I am immersed in sales and marketing and not so much the photography, I shouldn't really have escaped from the Talk Business section).
I think it is really easy not to get involved in fights and battles - any argument you get into you have made a decision to do so - it is in no way a passive process, so if you want to avoid them, do so.

A
 
Thankfully I stuck with this thread despite my growing ennui. If I had given up when I felt the will to live drain from me I would not have happened upon Splog's avatar.:D

My response to the opening question was, yes, I'd love to learn it from the pro's pov. Regardless of how good anybody's images are, there are those who will make a successful business out of photography and those who won't. It's the same in my trade; the same in every trade.

Professional does not equate to good every time.

But if I were to aspire to making a few Euros out of photography then all the insight into the business and nitty gritty side of things I can get, the better. And that's advice that only pros can give.

I'm also keen to better my photography (see the distinction there?) and happily take criticism/advice from anybody and everybody, because every person's opinion is relevant and should be considered, whether they are pro, am or can't even insert a memory card.

I refer to that line in the classic Pope/Michaelangelo sketch of many moons ago:

Pope: 'I may not know much about art but I know what I like.'


Flouncing, however, is most unprofessional... unless one treads the boards, of course, and it's in the script.
 
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