What is so special about a "Prime Lens"

HoppyUK said:
Yes, every time I use a prime it annoys me. Gave up on them years ago, but they do do nice low f/numbers :)

You also get better composed pictures with a zoom - find the right angle, move forward back for best perspective, then zoom for final framing. Can't do that with a prime.

Richard, you shoot completely differently to me though with those f4 lenses.
 
Richard, you shoot completely differently to me though with those f4 lenses.

Do I? :thinking:

Perspective makes a masive difference to composition. People say using a prime makes you think about things more. But if you really think about it, and want to optimise composition, a zoom is just better.
 
What a prime offers that a zoom doesn't really is a consistency in composition and proportion.

If someone made a f1.7 18-300 macro that wasn't the size of a drainpipe, as sharp as a 50mm and not hugely expensive I would only need the one lens...
 
What a prime offers that a zoom doesn't really is a consistency in composition and proportion.

If someone made a f1.7 18-300 macro that wasn't the size of a drainpipe, as sharp as a 50mm and not hugely expensive I would only need the one lens...

It's not the length that would be ridiculous, its the width you would need for an f1.7 lens thats 300mm. to give you an example, an f1 300mm lens would need to be more than 300mm wide for the blades to open wide enough :LOL:
 
What a prime offers that a zoom doesn't really is a consistency in composition and proportion.

<snip>

Not sure what that means exactly, but if that's what you want, then tape up the zoom ring.

The only unique performance advantage of primes over zooms, is very low f/numbers.
 
Do I? :thinking:

Perspective makes a masive difference to composition. People say using a prime makes you think about things more. But if you really think about it, and want to optimise composition, a zoom is just better.

Well you must do because you can't bloody well shoot at f1.8, can you? ;)
 
What a prime offers that a zoom doesn't really is a consistency in composition and proportion.
......

I see it more as compromise. Why limit yourself in that way? It's not a badge of honour to use a prime (as I'm convinced some people see it), it's doing yourself out of shooting options..
 
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I see it more as compromise. Why limit yourself in that way? It's not a badge of honour to use a prime (as I'm convinced some people see it), it's doing yourself out of shooting options..

So does a slow zoom...

I use both so I miss nothing :) As I said before I have a lazy arse 28-300 for that very reason and it basically lives on the camera. But I also have a 50mm prime for lowlight which lets me shoot in conditions that the zoom struggles in.
 
specialman said:
I see it more as compromise. Why limit yourself in that way? It's not a badge of honour to use a prime (as I'm convinced some people see it), it's doing yourself out of shooting options..

I don't use primes as a badge of honour. I use them because i've been let down too many times by lenses and there is less to go wrong in a prime and a better chance of consistent results.
 
I only have the 50mm Prime so have nothing to test it with but, when i did have a 450D with the kit lens on i do notice how much better the IQ is with the prime
 
This is how it works imo...

If you want the best possible image quality possible with your camera, use a prime.

If you don't mind THAT much about the image quality and rate ease of use and convenience a bit more, then get a Zoom.

Theres a reason the guys making 8k+ a shoot use primes instead of zooms (And mf bodies usually)
 
Chris Primadona said:
This is how it works imo...

If you want the best possible image quality possible with your camera, use a prime.

If you don't mind THAT much about the image quality and rate ease of use and convenience a bit more, then get a Zoom.

Theres a reason the guys making 8k+ a shoot use primes instead of zooms (And mf bodies usually)

Agreed.
 
I see it more as compromise. Why limit yourself in that way? It's not a badge of honour to use a prime (as I'm convinced some people see it), it's doing yourself out of shooting options..

LOL ;)

Primes, always in manual, Raw, spot metering. It's the only way.

Or you're not a proper photographer.
 
LOL ;)

Primes, always in manual, Raw, spot metering. It's the only way.

Or you're not a proper photographer.

Spot metering :thumbsdown: Shocking, real togs do that manually as well :D
 
This is how it works imo...

If you want the best possible image quality possible with your camera, use a prime.

If you don't mind THAT much about the image quality and rate ease of use and convenience a bit more, then get a Zoom.

Theres a reason the guys making 8k+ a shoot use primes instead of zooms (And mf bodies usually)

And charging £8,000 per shoot proves what? You have wealthy clients, that's about it. What a load of......

LOL ;)

Primes, always in manual, Raw, spot metering. It's the only way.

Or you're not a proper photographer.

That's me out of the equation then - what's spot metering? I'll go back to being a graphic designer.... then I can charge £8,000 per job and use a quill and some handmade paper because it's real :LOL:
 
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And charging £8,000 per shoot proves what? You have wealthy clients, that's about it. What a load of......


That's me out of the equation then - what's spot metering? I'll go back to being a graphic designer.... then I can charge £8,000 per job and use a quill and some handmade paper because it's real :LOL:

In all seriousness, a lot of this apparent snobbery is shrewd marketing by pros that can afford it.

There's not much you can't do with a regular camera (Annie Leibovitz shot the Queen on a 1Ds) but if you're charging £8k it's quite a good plan not to have a camera that looks like the client's own 450D. Or anything else that they might recognise.

A Hasselblad perhaps, and some massive great continuous lights that cost five grand each. Not a regular tripod, but a flippin great studio tower. Everything on tethered capture, linked up to huge screens (Macs, naturally). Big is good.

Then you regail your clients with how fabulous it all is, and how essential for the best quality work. I have a mate who does exactly that - it's all bull, but they pay :D
 
That's fine, as long as you remember to bill the client for kit hire.

When it's at that level the camera is just a tool that you use to get the job done, and you use whatever suits best; prime OR zoom.
 
That's fine, as long as you remember to bill the client for kit hire.

When it's at that level the camera is just a tool that you use to get the job done, and you use whatever suits best; prime OR zoom.

That's the point - it's not a tool, it's a marketing device.
 
And charging £8,000 per shoot proves what? You have wealthy clients, that's about it. What a load of......

Proves that you are the best person for the job and use the right equipment for the job. Unfortunatly its costly because you realise the difference between the images a prime and a zoom produce and use £100k worth of gear because you can spot the subtle difference between a canon 450 and a Hasselblad H4D-200MS.

Do you think the photographers that Apple hire for advertising use a zoom to take photos of the new iphones? :D
 
If they've got any marketing nous, they'll be using iPhones.

As novel as that idea would be, they are out to sell phones and will use the very best camera equipment and very elaborate lighting setups to make their product stand out from the rest. I don't think an iphone camera would be capable of sending out the right image about their brand when printed in a glossy mag/catalogue or on a highstreet billboard :LOL:

Anyway this is getting quite offtopic now, but there is a reason for prime lenses, just as there is a reason for 9 light setups and £30k+ cameras. If an iphone, or canon 450d with a kit lens could cut it they would be used instead.
 
The very last thing that Apple are doing is to try and flog the iPhone as a mobile telephone!!!!!!!!!!
 
Just to wade in...

After owning a nikon D3100 for a month and asking the exact same question to another togger I knew he suggested primes were better. And to "zoom with your feet".

On his advice I researched available primes for the kind of shooting I wanted to do and picked up the nikon 35mm f/1.8 and that was when I noticed the first real improvement in my shooting compared to the kit zoom lens.

Zooming is convenient but in the varied light situations I've used my prime in it's also been convenient to have that extra DOF and wider aperture.

Also I think at least for the newbie the benefit of always being quite close to your subject gives you a better understanding of the reason you're taking a photo rather than sniping it from feet away. I think it definitely helps to improve IQ not only with generally higher shutter speeds but better composition and framing when you're that close.
 
Zoom lenses are fine - I own an 80-200 and love it - but if I want to shoot at f2.8 or wider I'll always use a prime because even the very best zoom lens cannot compare to even a fairly cheap prime for IQ.

I'm not against zooms at all, but I've not used one that ever made me go wow like a prime can...which isn't to say I've been wowed by every prime I've used either
 
The very last thing that Apple are doing is to try and flog the iPhone as a mobile telephone!!!!!!!!!!

This is very true, have you seen the photos on the site for the phones though? I can only imagine how many hours went in to lighting those images.

I think this guy done some of the photos that are up there at the moment. http://www.dougrosa.com/

I'm kinda strange in that I appreciate all genres of photography!
 
Yes, every time I use a prime it annoys me. Gave up on them years ago, but they do do nice low f/numbers :)

You also get better composed pictures with a zoom - find the right angle, move forward back for best perspective, then zoom for final framing. Can't do that with a prime.

Do I? :thinking:

Perspective makes a masive difference to composition. People say using a prime makes you think about things more. But if you really think about it, and want to optimise composition, a zoom is just better.

Thats 1 opinion, mine is that I don't own a zoom anymore cause they annoy me - and more to the point my composition and framing is far more consistent with a prime.

Its personal taste at the end of the day, like much to do with photography, it comes down to preferences, in reality a high end zoom is as good as a high end prime fast prime in any measurable quality (except for the obvious wider then f/2.8), but at the same time every photo I've taken over the last couple of years I've been really pleased with has been on a prime, I just think they have a quality zooms don't have.
 
The23rdman said:
Zoom lenses are fine - I own an 80-200 and love it - but if I want to shoot at f2.8 or wider I'll always use a prime because even the very best zoom lens cannot compare to even a fairly cheap prime for IQ.

I'm not against zooms at all, but I've not used one that ever made me go wow like a prime can...which isn't to say I've been wowed by every prime I've used either

Seriously, that has to be one of the daftest, most sweeping statements that I've read on here for ages. Apart from the fact that some zooms are excellent at f/2.8, there are varifocal lenses that can knock other primes into a cocked hat. :)

Yes on the whole a prime will have an edge in IQ, but it's certainly not always the case.
 
Optically speaking, when a designer optimises a zoom lens, he has to make (choose to make) a comprimise. This is because the lens designer has to settle for a an optimisation for the whole range. When he makes a prime lens, He doesn't have to make this compromise, because his lens oly needs to work at one focal length, not a range of focal lenghts

If we look at a single element of a lens (and assume it is "thin") and that element needs to be +6 dioptres the lens designer has the following choices

for example:
+12D front curve, -6D rear curve
+ 6 front curve, plano rear curve
+3 front curve, + 3 rear curve
plano front curve, + 6 rear curve

etc. etc..

Within the design, the "form" of the lens - which really means the combo of front and rear power will effect things like peripheral performance and most of the other abberations

IN addition, the designer can choose to use spherical or aspherical curves, can choose the index of the materials, can choose to use doublets or triplets of a range of different materials

All of these design questions apply to every element in the lens, and also to the whole set of elements

The maths involved in dealing with just two lenses, considering all of the above, whilst optimising for tangential and longitudinal shell error, chromatic aberrations, barrel / pincushion distortion is mind blowing, and really only in recent years have computers been up to speed enough to really help

When you consider the difference in optics, and number of elements between a Prime and a zoom, it is easy to see why the prime has much better optics

The zoom designer also needs to make compromises. The choice of curve for any specific element will be best at one (overall) focal length. That's why you often see zooms go soft, or exhibit a lot of distortion at the long end

That's why primes will be sharper and show less aberrations
- they are easier to design
- the designer makes less compromises
 
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DemiLion said:
Seriously, that has to be one of the daftest, most sweeping statements that I've read on here for ages. Apart from the fact that some zooms are excellent at f/2.8, there are varifocal lenses that can knock other primes into a cocked hat. :)

Yes on the whole a prime will have an edge in IQ, but it's certainly not always the case.

Mmm, okay, whatever. My experience is that you have to pay a lot of money to get a zoom that performs anywhere near as well as a half decent prime at f2.8.

If you think that's daft then tough tits.
 
Mmm, okay, whatever. My experience is that you have to pay a lot of money to get a zoom that performs anywhere near as well as a half decent prime at f2.8.

If you think that's daft then tough tits.

Yes you do have to pay a lot of money, but your comment was:

"even the very best zoom lens cannot compare to even a fairly cheap prime for IQ"

That's the daft part that I'm talking about.
 
DemiLion said:
Yes you do have to pay a lot of money, but your comment was:

"even the very best zoom lens cannot compare to even a fairly cheap prime for IQ"

That's the daft part that I'm talking about.

Sorry, I thought I was clear in meaning wide open or near about. Sure I said a much earlier in the thread.
 
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